Let me save you some time, SHE WILL ALWAYS PICK ELSE
She'd drive off a cliff if it was between that and your M.
Your words are empty to her, all she sees is the manipulative person you are. The more you rage the better OM looks. He's prince charming, you're that jerk that pretends to be nice.
Sounds to me like the affair is as good as guaranteed. It's just a matter of time for it to get physical.
Don't you see that in many ways she is having this affair to spite you, to get back at you, and YES TO HURT YOU.
Why do you think she's so careless with letting you know about the EA. She wants you to know, either consciously or subconsciously.
Yes it sounds weak to leave it alone, and let her pursue it, but guess what you are powerless to stop it. You can only accelerate it. Fighting with her about it will only drive her to his arms.
By her latest actions, it's easy to tell she is in full WAW mode. She's ready to run. She WANTS to divorce. She's merely waiting for the right time. It happens time and time again here.
1. Bomb dropped 2. EA/PA discovered 3. DB period 4. Separation/divorce filed 5. Spouse returns/ stays with OM/ or finds other OM's
It's so predictable it's sad. There are variations, but it's mostly true.
So what to do GAL, or in [edited by dbmod: reference not recommended nor allowed] terms learn how to meet your own needs. You are still clearly hurting, we get that really. You need to be at the point where you are happy with or without her. That's what being integrated is about. Meet your own needs, don't rely on her. Once you reach that you'll have the confidence needed to win her back, or any other woman for that matter.
You are actively competing with OM whether you like it or not. In time he will show his flaws. What are you doing to look good once he does?
This will take time, whether you wait it out is up to you. We will understand if you don't.
I completely agree with you. If I had the time I could ride it a little longer to work on myself before confronting her. I am admittedly still angry and still unstable. I go back and forth between feeling good, like my old self and feeling sick. So clearly I am not ready.
However, she wants to talk Friday about seriously selling the house. It's a long story but we lose $200K in equity if we sell it right now versus in 2013. She wants to move into a rental, quit her job so she can go to school full time and she wants us all to move together and ME support all of us during that time.
So she's forcing the issue. I don't see how I have a choice. I need to tell her that's fine but the OM has to go. I mean, how could she ever respect me if she looks me the eye and says fund my extramarital affair and I actually do it?
Alright just dug up your old thread and read that she point blank told you OM existed and that it WILL get physical. This is a very important piece of information. I bet alot of folks didn't know this here (that's why it's recommended to stick to one thread)
Here's my advice, but wait for others to chime in.
Ok so OM is real and she threw it in your face. Now she wants you to lose money on the house and pay for school. I agree not cool. I (along with other folks I presume) was under the impression that she was still playing the just friends card.
IF she really did tell you that OM is real and that it WILL get physical. It is fair to ask her before deciding to majorly sacrifice for her if she is still seeing OM. She could be too proud to admit that she wants to work on the M and dropped OM and this is her way of letting you know. If on the other hand she says yes then CALMLY inform her that you will not live in a marriage like that and will file as soon as you can.
Expect things to turn UGLY, don't add any ugliness yourself. Let me rephrase that things WILL turn ugly. Yes this is LRT.
It is not to be taken lightly. The key is to not threaten, accuse, or create ultimatums. You are NOT manipulating her. You are telling her that she clearly chooses OM and if she does you will not stick around. Then guess what... You file. If she still doesn't leave OM guess what... You get divorced and move on.
Now there's a chance as all this goes on she snaps out of it, sees how much you changed, and how much she stands to lose and comes back.
Don't count on it. Change for you, and only you. If it wins her back, good if it doesn't oh well.
Thanks Green Blue - and to others, YES she did indeed tell me almost 3 weeks ago that she is in an EA but that it WILL turn physical. She was not grey about this. She very specifically said she couldn't spend 15 months seeing this person every day and not act on it and that she was not going to drop out of school.
I have suspected that it already was physical when she told me but she was too ashamed and prideful so this was her way of being able to say we were 'separated' before anything actually happened.
So that is truly my dillema. OM is real. I have been promised that she will be a cheat sooner or later and now i am asked to sell the house so she can quit her job and just focus on school and see the kids a bit more (because now she doesn't at all). She expects me to pay 100% of all bills while she in school. But -- obviously this just gives her more time to see OM. So I can't see how she would ever respect me if I actually went through with selling our house, taking a $200K loss and then funding a rental - all the while she is having an affair.
I'm glad you have recognized the "Nice Guy" routine. Seems like you have identified with yourself. Here is the kicker though...
You have to FIX YOUR behavior. You have to show that you are changing. You really have to understand, that your W will not trust you until she see's you changing once and for all. THIS takes SERIOUS amounts of time. Time that you may or may not have. DO NOT BOTHER TELLING HER. SHOW HER.
You have to change for you and not so much worry about dropping an Ultimatum RIGHT NOW. Seriously, with EA/PA can it really get worse at this moment? Don't focus too much on enforcing this information just yet...take some time and soak it in. In the mean time just be distant and BETTER yourself. Don't worry too much about enforcing a boundary when you have SO MUCH to do for yourself.
I truly believe in showing your best self and getting acquainted with YOU. Once you do this, Boundary setting and what's BEST for you will make everything much smoother. I think you of all people can identify extremely bad behavior, but until you handle them correctly just play it day by day until you grasp EVERYTHING. Then think about setting an Ultimatum.
Read DR...if you already have...do it again. Just my opinion. It's all about doing EVERYTHING differently.
this is great stuff. And not telling us vital info b/c you post elsewhere is why we like ONE thread...but some LBSers want to "shop" for answers and only hear what they want to hear.
SO READ this^^^^ post again and again.
Stop anticipating HER moves and your counter moves.
Instead of strategizing for expected/planned battle, and "winning", Be a better man and BE the better choice.
No matter what SHE does...or how "fair" you don't think it is.
Unfair? How about Africa...my real point is that in HER mind you pushed her into his arms so you have nothing to complain about now...
right or wrong, it's HER perception that counts and no bludgeoning her with your "logical arguments" is going to help.
I think It'll annoy.
So just Deal with what is.
Its not your job to be the judge and jury and executioner and the sooner you Stop making this about winning, the better. IF you really have read the DIv Remedy book, please do so again. Your approach just seems like it's from... elsewhere.
But I'm very sorry for your pain and stress.
I know it's very tough, but it does get better. IN TIME.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
OK. So she is going out tonight and not even hiding the fact that she's going to be with him. She said "I will be coming home late so don't call the police". Pretty cold.
So I am 99% this is what I am going to tell her tomorrow:
I want to talk to you about a few things and I want to make sure we are communicating and I am letting you know my true feelings and I am not misleading you.
I want you to know that I have been absolutely devastated by your affair and I have been going through a very deep process of self-reflection and change. I deeply understand now this person I slowly became over the last 6 years and more important WHY and frankly I hate the man I was during this time. I have something called “Mr Nice Guy Syndrome” which is anything but nice. Nice guys are in fact passive aggressive manipulators who restructure their lives around pleasing their wife and basically cannot set boundaries, admit mistakes or stand up for themselves. Most of this stems from deeply buried abandonment issues and childhood trauma. There are many other details but the bottom line is this is not who I was when you met me but there were deep down traits that surfaced and took over as I started feeling more and more pressure starting with Subculture.
On a daily basis I go through a range of emotions – I feel so much guilt and anger towards myself for what I have put you through and all of the love you showed me that I could not feel or return. I also feel despair and deep sadness, anger and betrayal - but also on and off I feel a deep calm and much more confidence than I have felt in years – I am really for the first time in years seeing things very clearly and I know what I want for you and for the kids and that is to be happy.
I have been searching my soul so deeply for answers and what I have come to is I am deeply in love with you and I may be forever – but I can’t let that or the fear of losing you cloud my judgment or push me into manipulating you - its time to let you go and move forward with my own life. Just because I want you to go to counseling and I believe our marriage can be saved – you have to want to try too and you don’t. It is far too painful to continue living together and even if you broke off the affair, I would be conflicted as you are going to be in school for a year and the chances are slim that it will not spark back up.
So I don’t know what is going to happen. At this point I really need to weigh out whether it is good idea at all to continue living together. It’s not good for you, me or the kids to stay in limbo as we can’t be a pretend family…either we are a family or we are not.
So my heart keeps telling me that really the best thing to do is get rid of the house, move forward with the divorce and get two separate places.
I don’t like it nor do I want it and I know our kids will be screwed up for life—but at the same time they will be even more screwed up if we continue to live together in limbo and I can’t deny my feelings. I have thought about just a separation but the realty is there is no such thing as a separation when one partner has moved on and is in an affair…it’s just delaying the inevitable. On the other hand, my therapist has said there are more people that reconcile after an affair than not so she is torn on what to do also. So as I said – I am in process and I don’t know what’s going to happen – but I don’t want to mislead you into thinking we are definitely going to be sharing a rental when we sell the house.
How much of that do you think is going to register after "I want you to know that I have been absolutely devastated by your affair and I have been going through a very deep process of self-reflection and change." ?
Have you changed much about yourself?
Hard for people to resist things that aren't directed at them.
Easy for people to resist stuff that people "tell them."
M: 32 W: 29 T: 9 Years M: 4 Years I hit rock bottom: 2/11 PA admitted: 4/11 WAW: 5/11 D filed: 6/11 now: Patience, wisdom, and growth - hopefully.
My intention is to tell her the truth. It is not healthy or good for her, me or the kids to sell our house, move into a smaller apartment so she can quit her job while she is actively dating. She's made it clear she is not coming back so I have to let her go.
It says in DR's chapter on infidelity that it's OK to tell W about how the affair has made you feel. You think this will drown out the message? Maybe I should not say anything about that?
I have changed a ton. In the past I would have been far too scared to confront her and tell her how I feel. I would have gone right ahead and sold the house and then dropped a bomb on her that I wasn't going to support her after the fact (I was a chicken$hit). Now I truly see that the only chance of saving this marriage is to split up. The only way I am going to return to the confident, funny and thoughtful man that I was is to heal and I can't do it while she is going on dates.
