Are there any midlife women who want daily sex?

[ssmguy]

Thank you for helping to focus one of the loose ends that was getting in the way

If you think there's a loose end, ask it. You really think that's the issue?

I think my biggest problem is that I still basically have no understanding of the SA issue, if that is the problem, etc. Sure, I've read several books on it, but it's hard for me to identify with it, as I never had a hint that anything like that every happened to anybody until later in life.

I see the advice people are giving me about being so careful and delicate with her about my attitude towards sex. But that's so different from the way she advertised herself when we first met, when she, not me, initiated going to porn flicks just for fun. So I thought, this is the open and cool lady I could live with. And then she turns out to be the total oppostie after some years! I guess she was hoping to "escape" her true self? She never talks to me about the SA thing, and whatever she said with her therapist are private. In any case, I sometimes feel like the effect of SA has left me with an uphill battle I can never surmount. I can never be pure enough, sexless enough, patient enough, worthy enough, or loving to overcome it. I'm only human.

[ssmguy]

... that you *want* to have an open marriage and FWB arrangements,

And who wouldn't occasionally wish, or even fantasize, or even plan for that in my situation? You have essentially implied that that may be the only way I will ever experience sex again without getting divorced.

but in reality you just masturbate to porn and pay for the occasional strip-club hand-job or lap-dance.

Actually, not much into porn, it's rather boring. Not situationally interesting enough. Never had an HJ in a strip club, though I wouldn't mind. Had a lap dance once.

Thanks for making my only few outlets sound tawdry. What do you suggest? That I sit in a church and pray away the desire while trying to solve the problem?

In either case, take care and best of luck to you.

Thanks for your good comments otherwise. I think there's only so much that can be accomplished via this format, especially for someone like me who has already been through extensive therapy with some very good people. But thanks for putting up with my venting.

[ssmguy]

SSM-I never said masturbation was wrong, I said it's one sided. What I meant when I said you may need to show her that you want HER and not "just going for the orgasm", I wasn't referring to her orgasms, but yours.

OK, I think I've said several times already that I'm not pressuring or even asking for sex in any way for several years now. And she's much happier for it. So yes, that is working as far as her happiness, and it's why a lot of our marriage is working pretty well at this point. She keeps inviting me out to dinners and fun things to do together, and it's been that way for several years now.

But it hasn't resulted in any indication of sexual willingness on her part. I keep getting the feeling that you're all applying a model of female sexual behavior that doesn't seem to apply to my wife. Could it be that you're imagining yourself in her shoes, and what you'd do?

Over and over and over again, I get the distinct feeling that you conclude that because my wife is not having sex with me, it's because I haven't followed all the steps of the "program". That has been a source of frustration for me when dealing with people giving me advice. It's to the point that sometimes I entertain the whimsical thought of, OK, than you try to have a relationship with her and see how it goes! And you know, if another guy could actually get her to like sex, after all this time, I think I'd be happy for her. In fact, I have actually suggested that to my wife, and no, she doesn't want somebody else. Go figure.

Why are you here NOW?

Like I've said several times recently, just to vent. And I appreciate those who put up with it. I know my story is getting old for anybody still reading this. It certainly is getting *old* for me.

You must like to keep spinning your wheels and you definitely like talking about sex.

Given my situation, it's more fun than not spinning my wheels. I'm not one to sit quietly and brood about negatives. I think part of it is that my wife does not want to talk about any of this, so I let it out here recently instead. Probably safer than talking to a female friend about it all, as I've also done in the past. I used to try to talk to her about the whole situation, but I was so persistent that it drove her nuts and she felt so pressured and as she put it, "overwhelmingly guilty".

B/c your stories are Not consistent and some of them ring hollow.

If you think there's something missing or inconsistent that's relevant and important, just ask. And what rings hollow? The superficiality of my relationship? Well guess what? It is and that's my problem. Especially if, as you describe, mutual sex combined with real love makes it much deeper. Yeah, guess what? I've never had that.

I'm not a literary writer, so my overall emotional descriptions and emphasis on events and reactions may not be presented well.

[ssmguy]

My suggestion for him is that the first thing that I needed to do in my SSM, was stop trying to change my wife and work on "fixing me." Making me a better person, who better understood the dynamics of relationships, who was more in control of myself, and who could decide on and make changes in my life that were visible to others.

I don't know what more I can say. Like I've said, I haven't tried to fix her at all in the last several years (for which several others here have critized me for NOT doing). I have made changes in my life.

Are you assuming I haven't done these things merely because my wife is not having sex with me?

And yes, I have apologized to my wife too. And she appreciates that. And I don't pressure her for sex.

And so far the result is that she's perfectly happy with no sex.

What more can I say?

[ssmguy]

B/c your stories are Not consistent and some of them ring hollow.

I'm not trying to be cute here. It's just that this observation on your part reminds me that I feel the collective advice you all have given me is inconsistent. Make demands of my wife, make her feel safe, don't try to fix her, take her to therapy, make ultimatums, don't pressure her.

As Bagheera said, I might be done with this thread at this point too. I'm glad most of you have had better success than I think I'll ever have fixing this marriage, at least in the sexual sense.

[NewHorizons]

Ok,
So here's my 2cents. What are you going to do? Yes, it may seem inconsistant but really it's not. It sounds more like a mult-level plan to me but the information is being spread so let's see if I can gather it all together in a simpler form.

1. First and foremost, work on yourself. Stop any behaviours which may be interpreted as unloving towards your wife, up to and including strip clubs, inuendo, etc.
2. Stop all enabling activities. My personal opinion is that although you seem to be having fun, you're not really having romantic dates. If it's romantic make sure that message is very clear and concise. You don't want another mother or sister, you want a wife and girlfriend (yes, the same person! )
3. You are blocking any attempt to improvement by thinking you've done it all. Stop that! You have tried in the past but it's more like the "I tried to diet and didn't lose any weight" thinking instead of the "this is my new lifestyle and I'm going to be healthy" thinking. Stop the negative thoughts, stop the "know-it-all, seen-it-all, done-it-all" attitude, dude.
4. Stay healthy and work on your own issues and you'll find that issues with you spouse will be quite a bit less. And no, you don't have a perfect life "except for sex". You have a live in sister.
5. You do need to attempt to get your wife to see someone about this issue. You do need to set a boundary about your life and what quality of life you want. If sex is important to you (and romance) the boundary might be "I'm going to live in a romantic, sexual relationship in the next 18 months and I'd prefer it was with you." In otherwords, focus on you! You are important! You aren't setting boundaries and just "hoping for change" or "hopelessly hoping for change". Hope in one hand and a nickel in the other and what do you have? Hope is all fine and good but it's action and energy that win the game.

You've been letting this go for too long. If you want a sexless marriage keep putting up personal stop signs. Those "happy times" you have can't be all that good, in my humble opinion, because always in the background of your mind you're saying "yeah, but sex is better".

So, fix you first. Take away as many of your own personal bad habits and blemishes as possible. If nothing else and there is no change then it makes you a very attractive partner for someone who wants to have fun that also includes sex and romance.

Think about it and quit wallowing in your past.

So, what is your plan for improving you? What are your goals (without goals you're going exactly nowhere)?

//NH

P.S. You're not unique in your problems but your situation is unique to you and yours to solve. We can only pep you up and give you our own personal experiences to help you along the way. I strongly suggest professional help but some succeed without it (sort of like people that act as their own legal counsel and you know what they say about that, if not as 25).

[TeaEarlGreyHot]

I've been sitting on the sidelines while others are trying to make sense of what you've written now and in the past. And I know how it feels to see the attempts at being helpful as if you (and I) haven't already thought about some particular point or action and actually done the thing that someone is suggesting.

I'll suggest that it extends from others thinking from the POV that this is a "problem" that has a "solution." And let's face it, we largely present it that way and in our venting are also looking for either a silver bullet or a collection of silver BB's that we haven't already thought through.

Yet, what we really have is a predicament, not a problem with (simple) solutions.

If you read every word carefully, you will see that it is entirely logically consistent. If you read between the lines and draw conclusions which are not stated, I see how you can read it wrong.

I actually wish, at least just for my own sake, that I had followed through with some of my wishes which I considered as good as done a few years ago. But as I stated, I have so far chickened out on FWB offers.

Let me also state that my impression from a couple of years ago was that you were or had taken up the FWB offer(s). AND, there could be mistaking that was the impression of others given the reaction they gave to you AT THE TIME.

While I have not completed an exhaustive search of all your posts during that time frame, I don't think you gave an unequivocal denial and explanation that you were only just thinking or fantasizing about it.

Perception is reality, even in your marriage, disfunctional as it may be. The fact that someone would have to "read between the lines" to discern the truth is too cute by half.

That being said, I'm not sure I agree with those who have the attitude that fantasizing about a playboy centerfold in a bathroom or having a lapdance has a major bearing on repairing a relationship that's been SSM for over a decade. In fact, I would be more worried about a man who was able to be completely non-orgasmic and unaroused for that whole period of time.

This really simple...you either agree or you don't. While it may not be an active issue in your marriage, it can and does have a way of showing up because those women in the magazine or the calendar or strip club are some idealized fantasy or readily "available" women as sexual partners.

That's not to say that those women on the pages aren't attractive in their own right, but the make-up, lighting and the whole photographic process is designed to appeal to you at the lower brain function level and to train you to what to find appealing as well as providing a view of what you've been trained to find appealing. But most women cannot "compete" with that and would ask why they would have to.

I've had this conversation before with both wives and with other women over the years. There are some obvious contradictions in what we, as males, are told about this and yet the underlying message that would come through is that somehow those women are "more appealing" than what we actually have (and that "hurts").

As for your final sentence about what you'd worry about...completely irrelevant to this conversation. It's not an issue in your marriage is it? If not, its just a red herring to defend some POV.

And interesting how none of you has even asked about emotional affairs?! Am I feeling a whif of bible-belt sexual morality here?

Since you bring it up, do you have an emotional affair to admit to and clean up in your marriage? Is there an emotional affair that your wife has had or is having that is causing some issue in the marriage? If not, why bring it up?

And while an emotional affair might have the distinction of being non-sexual (and not just the subtlety of being non-intercourse), most would tell you that in marriage it is a distinction without a difference. If it does not play a role in your marriage (past or present either because you've had one or more emotional affairs and/or she has), then it's just a hypothetical not worth discussing.

There no whiff of bible belt morality in that. It's just a distraction.

The Captain

[Bagheera]

And interesting how none of you has even asked about emotional affairs?! Am I feeling a whif of bible-belt sexual morality here? ...

Thanks for making my only few outlets sound tawdry. What do you suggest? That I sit in a church and pray away the desire while trying to solve the problem?

These statements are a red herring. Never once have I suggested that you stop masturbating; heck, I do it myself from time to time and I have a decent sex life now. What I did ask, quite explicitly, is that you stop all of the 'extramarital shenanigans' (the "open marriage", FWB arrangements, and strip club visits) that you CLAIMED or IMPLIED that you were having during your first year on this forum, and voraciously defended your choice to have, in page after page of discussion. Likewise, my suggestion that you tear up the Playboy calendar was not because I have anything morally against such a calendar (I've had them myself in the past, pre-Internet). I suggested tearing it up and tossing it as a symbolic gesture to your wife, signifying that you were no longer looking outside of the marriage for meeting your sexual needs -- that you wanted only her.

Garbage In - Garbage Out (GIGO), SSMGuy. You will never get sound advice from the folks on a forum like this one UNLESS you are honest and accurate in the story that you tell us. Otherwise, you are wasting everyone's time -- yours and ours.

At this point, I strongly suspect that your primary purposes in being here are partly to vent, but also to meet and talk to those 'HD women' that you are so fascinated with and keep asking us about. Along those lines, your claims to be in an "open marriage" and seeking "FWB arrangements" amounted to a bit of trolling on your part, with those 'HD women' you wanted to talk to in mind.

Here's something from another old post of yours (#1887526 - 2009-12-06 01:53:26)

The very best of our couples therapists told me privately that he had counseled thousands of couples, and that I just needed to know that the chances that I could ever make this marriage work the way I wanted to was "unlikely" in his experience. Not impossible, but it was fair for me to know it was "unlikely", even with the best effort.

And that's a tough reality to accept. But he seems to have been right. I've got things back pretty good as a relationship between us, but this might be as good as it's ever going to get.

Did you honestly expect us to tell you differently? There are NO magic bullets here.

The only real leverage that you have in getting your wife to face her SA issues and develop her own sexuality is for *you* to set a firm boundary and stick with it on this issue ("I will be in a relationship that includes sexual and emotional intimacy. Period.") That's what we've been telling you, consistently, for two years now. The only way that she will decide to make the extremely uncomfortable choice of returning to therapy and working her sexual issues is if her only other choice is even more uncomfortable: the loss of her relationship with your entirely. If she has any other choices, easier choices, then she won't make the hard one of working the issue.

All of our other advice (GAL, stopping the infidelity or your aspirations toward infidelity, learning to really meet your wife's needs fully in this marriage, etc.) has been primarily aimed at putting YOU in the best possible position, both in your own eyes and hers, such that when you do state your firm boundary, and mean it, that she will be most likely to choose working the relationship over separation.

As long as you remain unwilling to set a firm boundary for *yourself* and your own happiness, she will remain as she is and your relationship will remain as it is.

It's a hard, hard choice, I know and I've been there. But there are NO easy ones in this case.

-- B.

[TeaEarlGreyHot]

AND, there could be mistaking that was the impression of others given the reaction they gave to you AT THE TIME.

Dropped a word in editing.

Should have read:

AND, there could NO be mistaking that was the impression of others given the reaction they gave to you AT THE TIME.

The Captain

[25yearsmlc]

Bag said:
SSMGuy. You will never get sound advice from the folks on a forum like this one UNLESS you are honest and accurate in the story that you tell us. Otherwise, you are wasting everyone's time -- yours and ours.

At this point, I strongly suspect that your primary purposes in being here are partly to vent, but also to meet and talk to those 'HD women' that you are so fascinated with and keep asking us about. Along those lines, your claims to be in an "open marriage" and seeking "FWB arrangements" amounted to a bit of trolling on your part, with those 'HD women' you wanted to talk to in mind.


I am glad this has been said.

Consciously or not, you are on the hunt, even here, and I can't tell if it's all fantasy, or if you'd back it up w/action, but it's in there...

Who knows what really is going on w/you? Your earlier posts indicate you have gone outside the m. Whatever...you think the only options are going outside the marriage or staying stuck...that's up to YOU.

No one told you to "pray this away". We simply don't know what you want from us since you insist you have tried everything.

And yet you also say the situation is NOT fine with you.

So we offer advice but Then you say "but the marriage is great in other ways" & you ask
"why isn't that enough? Why isn't THAT marriage fine?"


IT IS FINE...IF it is fine.


So Which is it SSM? Fine or not fine, with YOU?


If it's not fine then you must Do something about it. IF it is fine, then accept it.


The next words from you will either be

"I already did that" OR something beginning with the word "But"....

and we go back to the circle again.