Are there any midlife women who want daily sex?

[ssmguy]

In moments of anger at you, what else has she said? Surely there is something negative about you or an insult that got hurled your way? This is where I think you get too vague. It doesn't make sense to me, even beyond the regular crazy element here.

The biggest complaint by far has been the sexual pressure. Even to the point of yelling at me several times years ago that I was sexually harrassing her, which was kind of shock to hear from my wife. It wasn't like I was hounding her every hour. The other category of complaints were all what you might call typical annoyances, like one of the few times I was late meeting her at a restaurant, or late picking up the kids.

One of the biggest early arguments we had was about house cleaning. We had the typical difference of opinion where I didn't mind a little dust collecting under the couch. It drove her crazy. She would see spots on the counter that wouldn't even register on my sensibilities. But we solved that by agreeing to hire a regular cleaning service that I would pay for, not that we really keep our incomes separate. It's just that I take care of the arrangements and payments.

Other than that, lots of picky complaints, which really escalate when she's under pressure to be sexual. And as I try to eliminate each source of complaint, she finds something new to complain about. One time I when I did a huge remodeling project in the bathroom that she wanted, which took a huge amount of my time and dozens of trips to Home Depot, she was very happy. So happy that she decided to give me sex....which consisted only of a HJ. She did not want sex or any kind of touching for herself. And she couldn't understand why I was disappointed, like, I'm getting off, so what am I complaining about?

Second, What anger in Bag's post are you referring to? Bag did NOT suggest any anger towards your w; on the contrary. The suggestion is that your wife be made to feel you want HER, not just sex.

I have to explain that my wife is very sensitive to even just an interpretation that somebody might be angry, or that they are trying to control her behavior in some way. I think she has some issues around that. Not sure if it's related to the SA.

and it better not be a lot of work IF there is no guaranteed pay off. It makes it all about the orgasm and frankly that's not mature.

Not sure what you're saying here. For many years I put no pressure at all on my wife to have an O. I had read it was bad to pressure a woman that way. But then how do I bring it up when she doesn't seem to want one, ever, for over a decade?

The magazines are for men without partners...

What do you mean? Why would a man without a female partner be making a donation at a doctor's office? It's not a sperm bank.

Like many people here in different situations, You got dealt a bad hand. But you have not played your hand well, imo.

I'll totally agree with that. And not just because I had no prior sexual experience.

Yes, you stayed married, technically, but I have to wonder at what costs.

And, don't forget, at what rewards? And they are plenty. I take a more optimistic view of that, though that's not what I'm here to discuss.

How does it feel to think of your d's finding your girlie mags, or learning about the strippers and other interests?

Ha ha, I think I had my last girlie magazine before I met my wife, and I threw them out when I met my wife, in a fit of optimism. It's all on the Internet now. As for the calendar, not a big deal. She reminds me with a laugh when I forget to flip up the new month. Actually, the latest one is a Sports Illustrated calendar. Pretty tame stuff. You're chasing a non-issue here. As for strip clubs, I can't remember for sure which year it was when I had my last visit. Total visits to such clubs is probably less than 6 in my whole life, including my college years. I don't know where the exaggerated description of my exploits is coming from, except maybe some earlier rant about what I'd like to do.

And if you think the strip clubs/play boys made your w feel that you wanted HER
you are kidding yourself again. But you don't believe that do you? And you don't care??

Hey, come on, give me a break. Put me in the worst light every time!

If my h were to go there with any frequency, I'd literally be worried about him. (And turned off).

Actually, now I remember, the last strip club I went to was when I took my wife to an all-male strip show, which she enjoyed.

Hookers, playboy magazines, doing yourself often, a stripper, it all just
looks like a one sided sex deal. (and It IS.)--there is nothing mutual and you've been "practicing" this self only sex for years.

Good god, you really know how to make it sound sleazy. I don't view masturbation as a dirty thing at all, but I'd prefer partnered sex.

So of course it's not a sexual turn on for a woman. Watching her h get turned on by OWs or photos of, or just knowing he is, is a turn Off.

Sure, you're not telling me anything new.

I think you are missing a major piece of this puzzle with years of just getting your needs met/itch scratched, and not doing the work to get your w's problems worked on.

Not doing the work? Give me a break. Not doing the work that succeeded, yes. Just what do you think was the purpose in my considerable efforts, time, and expense to get her to the best qualified sex therapy I could find?

Even though you sound as if you made some great efforts once upon a time, you also admitted that you "assumed it would improve" so even that effort only goes so deep.

The assumption of automatic improvement was when we first met. The great efforts on my part started when the marriage turned SSM.

If you are the type of guy who'd self serve for years and be okay with it--which you are, by definition--that hurts the cause.

Well, not "ok" as in "I'm fine with it". Only "ok" as in "I can survive it given the tradeoff". But part of it may well be that I don't fully know what I'm missing, as I've not really ever had what most people would consider a "good" sexual relationship, or maybe not even what some would consider a "decent" or "ok" relationship.

I mean, None of that stripper/playboy masturbation without her involvement would change a normal woman's mind or put her in the mood.

Well, I may be inexperienced with good partnered sex, but that much I know.

What if you told her you'd have no sex of any kind until it was with her, AND "there must to be sex in this marriage and you meant it?

She would feel under tremendous pressure to have sex and it would be a huge turn off. If I made it very clear that there would be no pressure, but that I'd not even self-pleasure, well, I don't think that would make her interested either. To her it would all just sound like gimmicks to get her into bed with me. More than once, when I've asked her what I should do sexually if she didn't want to have sex with me, she just said that I should take care of myself. She certainly doesn't seem to have a problem with that, and seems to prefer it so that she doesn't have to deal with it. In later years, she got to thinking of giving HJ's as a tedious chore, so she's more than happy to have me just take care of it myself.

Besides, how rewarding are the outside of marriage sexual experiences?

Pretty good. Anything is good when you get only scraps. For example, I had my first and only lapdance about 5 years ago. I thought it was pretty cool. I wish my wife could be as much fun as that. At least the gal had a sense of humor and seemed positive. In recent years, if I had convinced my wife to sit on my lap, she would be sort of giving indications she was just tolerating it for my sake, and that she was uncomfortable. Or as she has a way of doing in that situation, claim that it's uncomfortable for her to sit on my lap and would prefer to sit on the sofa instead. Clearly, she wants to limit the time doing that sort of thing lest it lead "something more".

Something is still missing, if you are still here.

Not sure what you're getting at. If it's why am I still in the marriage. Well, isn't it clear by now? It's NOT just about sex, you know. Do you really think that my appreciation for my kids and everything is just a superficial excuse for staying in the marriage, and that it's really something much deeper and flawed as to why I'm staying in the marriage? If so, you're looking way too deep.

[ssmguy]

I have been wanting to answer the original question on this thread for a while so here it goes: YES

Oh, thank you, I love hearing that! Gives me hope!

[ssmguy]

25yearsmlc, I'd love nothing more than to hear my wife say, "I don't want you to do anything sexual, or even think it, without me!" If she followed up and made herself available, I would be more than happy to not even fantasize about anybody else. I can say this because in the early years, and even when it was later heading into an SSM, most of my self-servicing pleasures involved fantasies about her. Not that she ever appreciated that.

[ssmguy]

However, my point to you today has been that now that you have stepped outside of your marriage to fulfill your sexual needs, and have been doing so for at least a couple of years now, that you have effectively removed ANY chance that she would choose to stay with you and work her abuse issues over the choice of divorce. In my opinion, your actions have reduced that chance from 'low' to none.

Something got a little off course here. I'm sure I said I haven't had intercourse in 15 years, and have never seen a woman have an orgasm. Never had oral sex with anybody, ever -- could never get my wife to be interested in that, and no, I never pressured her to do that like some guys do. I've had some FWB offers but chickened out so far. Time is another factor. There is no "are you seeing that woman again" issues in our marriage, spoken or unspoken. I have close female friends, but she has met them all, and is good friends with some of them herself. She never had jealousy issues, even in the best of times. It feels like you're grasping at straws here.

That is why I recommended the course of action that I did -- giving up your extramarital shenanigans -- in order to restore trust and restore at least the 'low' chance that you did have previously.

Well, I can give you the answer to that already, as that's the current situation. If trust is the issue, I'm not sure I can ever get enough trust going when even in the best of times long ago, in the most intimate of moments, she never let me tough her sexually.

I'm not just making this, SSMGuy. Go look over your relationship books on the issue of recovering a marriage from infidelity.

I have looked at many of them just out of curiosity, to see if they had tips that I could use in my situation. What was frustrating is that any of the self-help books suggest remedies which my wife wouldn't even consider under any circumstances, and then the books claim everything is back on track. And they describe a sexual reunion far better than I ever had in the best of times. Great. I can't even get my wife to start on the first step of many of these self-help books.

Every single one of them will tell you that the very first step toward marriage recovery is that the infidelity MUST STOP before any real progress can be made. Go look over the infidelity forum here on this site, and you'll see the same story. By continuing to step outside of your marriage to get your sexual needs met, you are essentially locking yourself into the exact two choices that you outlined above.

Ha, ha, I only wish I had had all the sexual fun you're accusing me of. But all this talk about it has really piqued my interest in what intercourse feels like. It's been 15 years, and even then it was my wife just putting up with it for my sake.

[ssmguy]

And not that it matters much, but I fondly remember the last time my wife let me have intercourse twice in the same evening. And even then it was infrequent enough that I know for certain that it was that evening that created our youngest child. It's a sweet and poignant memory. At least she didn't seem to mind intercourse back then, though she thought the second go-around was a bit much.

[Bagheera]

Something got a little off course here. I'm sure I said I haven't had intercourse in 15 years, and have never seen a woman have an orgasm....

Ha, ha, I only wish I had had all the sexual fun you're accusing me of. But all this talk about it has really piqued my interest in what intercourse feels like. It's been 15 years, and even then it was my wife just putting up with it for my sake.

I'm pretty much done here, but for reference, here are your own statements:

(from your first post, #1804217 - 2009-07-19 11:15:41)

Tea, I'm in a very similar situation. The difference is that when my wife wanted to stop having sex, I told her I took that as meaning I can have sex with other women, because being a nonsexual person is NOT an option for me. I suggested we could divorce, but she didn't want to. So I let it be her choice, with the consequences spelled out beforehand. And my choice is also to stay in the marriage because we have many positive other aspects to our marriage.

So far the positives have outweighed the negatives, but I'm not entirely happy with the limitations of friends with benefits. I miss having the old-fashioned kind of romantic sex within a marriage, in our bedroom, in my own home, with the mother of my children, not to mention the security, safety, convenience and social acceptance of the traditional arrangement. I miss the integrated feelings of love and sex all being facets of the same thing, or so it seemed long ago when that was my love life. I envy couples where they seem to have all the sex they want within their own relationship. I've lost the perspective of what that's like.

(post #1881840 - 2009-11-25 23:27:50)

We last had intercourse just over a decade ago. As for how I get my needs met, let's just say those aren't details for which I'd get wide support and approval from everyone. My wife tacitly approves by not wanting to know. I suppose you could call it a low-key open marriage. And it's the last thing I would have ever believed I'd enter into when I got married. And no, I'm not happy with it, but it's the best I can manage at the moment.

(#1884052 - 2009-11-30 18:11:47)

But honestly, do I feel I have "sunk down" in some way? Yes, and I'm willing to pay the price. I do remember when I had a decent sexual relationship with my wife, I did "look down" on people who cheated. And now I'm one of them. What can I say? It's not cancer, you know, and I've dealt with that in my extended family too. Nothing close to it.

I don't think I will EVER think I made the wrong decision, because I know that thinking that I SHOULD HAVE BEEN CELIBATE FOR 10+ YEARS is just plain baloney. Not a chance. I am not capable of achieving that level of sainthood, so I'm not going to have any regrets about that.

So, either the above statements are true and you are now trying to back away from them, OR it is really all just a fantasy that you've been feeding us: that you *want* to have an open marriage and FWB arrangements, but in reality you just masturbate to porn and pay for the occasional strip-club hand-job or lap-dance.

In either case, take care and best of luck to you.

-- B.

[25yearsmlc]

thanks for clearing this up...^^^ too many contradictions and omissions.

SSM-I never said masturbation was wrong, I said it's one sided. What I meant when I said you may need to show her that you want HER and not "just going for the orgasm", I wasn't referring to her orgasms, but yours.

SSM whatever the situation is, I'm sorry for both of you. And I still wonder

Why are you here NOW?

You must like to keep spinning your wheels and you definitely like talking about sex.

But are you willing to DO much about it to change things?

....after all, it's all been done and you are simply stuck stuck stuck.

So you know, I AM NOT suggesting you leave. There IS value in staying married.

I just don't know why you are on this site and what it is you are looking for, really.

B/c your stories are Not consistent and some of them ring hollow.

But good luck

[Young at Heart]

...Wow, great comments. The only thing I would change would be to expand on what you mean by "real sex" to the words, "if you want real sex badly enough" as I think that is what most people seek a real deep, intimate, enriching, soul-mate, relationship that bonds two people into a caring couple.

By "real sex", I meant sex with another person, as opposed to an orgasm from masturbation.

I was trying to get at really special sex is with someone you care about deeply and are emotionally committed to as opposed to having sex with just someone who is nearby and willing.

I do feel that there is a huge difference and that is why it is called "making love" as that is what sex with someone special is all about....deepening the relationship and creating a greater emotional bond between the two people.

[Young at Heart]

...So, either the above statements are true and you are now trying to back away from them, OR it is really all just a fantasy that you've been feeding us: that you *want* to have an open marriage and FWB arrangements, but in reality you just masturbate to porn and pay for the occasional strip-club hand-job or lap-dance....

Thank you for helping to focus one of the loose ends that was getting in the way of dealing with the underlying problem, but (depening on ssmguy's answer) can be, as you said, a pre-condition to resolving the underlying relationship problem.

I see very clearling in ssmguy's words that he wants a meaningful romantic and sexual relationship with his wife and that he is struggling with what to do.

My suggestion for him is that the first thing that I needed to do in my SSM, was stop trying to change my wife and work on "fixing me." Making me a better person, who better understood the dynamics of relationships, who was more in control of myself, and who could decide on and make changes in my life that were visible to others.

One of the most important changes was to apologize to my wife and then show her with actions that I loved her, by making her feel loved. Making my W feel loved was very hard for me, as the things that made her feel loved, were completely foreign to me.

Her love languages were much different than mine, but I learned how to communicate that I loved her in a way that she could hear.

That and time (along with help from othes, luck and my wife's decision to change) made the difference.

Again, I want to thank you Bagheera for your incredible post on what helped in your SSM, as it was really inspiring.

[ssmguy]

If you read every word carefully, you will see that it is entirely logically consistent. If you read between the lines and draw conclusions which are not stated, I see how you can read it wrong.

I actually wish, at least just for my own sake, that I had followed through with some of my wishes which I considered as good as done a few years ago. But as I stated, I have so far chickened out on FWB offers.

That being said, I'm not sure I agree with those who have the attitude that fantasizing about a playboy centerfold in a bathroom or having a lapdance has a major bearing on repairing a relationship that's been SSM for over a decade. In fact, I would be more worried about a man who was able to be completely non-orgasmic and unaroused for that whole period of time.

And interesting how none of you has even asked about emotional affairs?! Am I feeling a whif of bible-belt sexual morality here?