Apparently this site is one that is visited very early in the morning (maybe when the sex starvation is at it's greatest There were 55 people viewing at around 2:30-3:00AM ET). Anyway...
SSMGuy:
Once again there is a completion of a circle. This is the way these periods of discussions go. And let's face it...we prefer to "vent" here rather than doing the thing(s) that might actually make a difference.
The uncertainty of the outcome and the front that our wives have put up are daunting; no frightening because they've made addressing these issues so incredibly unpleasant to us, that we rarely dare to tread that path again. Though there probably wasn't a time where your wife said "I'll teach him a lesson he'll never forget!" the effect has been the same.
As a result there is the resignation to two unpalatable alternatives...accept a sexless marriage or divorce. Those represent the polar bookends given the current experience. And in this website, there is advocacy for keeping a marriage intact (but also strengthening it so that it functions rather than just being a marriage in name only).
So, you won't see a lot of advocacy for divorce though there is the clear recognition that it happens.
Since you haven't been divorced and I have, let me tell you a few things about it. It IS a tough choice and is survivable. For example, you raise issues of shared parenthood...well, you just have to choose the following: the issue between your wife and you are not your children's responsibility. You can make that work by not putting your children into the middle of some tug-of-war.
It is about personal failure in not being able to make the most important relationship in your life work. And in this case, its also going to be around something else. It's about divorcing over the absence of sex and being legally released to pursue a complete relationship (rather than settling for a broken one).
It is no picnic and whoever makes the first step is likely to be seen within the family and friends as the bad-guy. So, its not something to pursue blithely and a question that needs to be asked (more of her than you) is this "Is divorce preferable to s sexless marriage?" If the answer is "yes" then there nothing left to do than start the process. If the answer is no, as has been pointed out then accept what you have or do something different.
Letting go of someone you love and care about deeply is one of the toughest things I have ever done. And it is frightening, just as frightening as confronting the wall that you (and I) have been presented by our wives.
While it has never been clear to me whether some significant portion of your wife's issues stem from physiological issues, the story you present is one that is fundamentally psychological. I know the two are not disconnected.
However, you speak of how much you like you in-laws but have you ever questioned where this sex-aversion has come from? If it's not organic (physiological), then it came from somewhere. That's the environment she came from. What happened there?
The difference for me in two years is that I've done and said things that, without any sort of intention, has moved my view that maybe, just maybe, there is the opening to much more smoothly do what needs to be done...to alter the marriage relationship.. Otherwise, the choice is what you've presented: either sexless or divorce.
We both know what needs to be done even though we've tried things that we've thought of and others have offered. The simple fact is that we are too afraid to do them. As I recently told my wife, I'm tired of being afraid and if I knew that this was they way my life was going to turn out, I would have never married.
Ultimately, this is a cancer in our lives. Your wife's refusal to do anything with you that addresses this sexual dysfunction (even if it can be identified as totally physiological) is a cancer in your marriage and for the moment I'll ascribe the cancer to her.
Refusing to address it is like refusing to treat a slow- growing cancer. Eventually, it can (and probably will) crowd out everything else or metastasize into something far more lethal. Would your wife knowingly ignore cancer if it was treatable and survivable?
If the answer is "yes" your choice is a lot more simple than you think.
As a cancer survivor, I know what the future and the next treatment steps can be scary. In my own conversation as to what's next for me, I'm reminding myself of that experience. Since you haven't had that experience it might be a little abstract, but I think even without the experience you know what you'd do. Ultimately, the same applies here.
The Captain
Last sex: 04/06/1997 Last attempt: 11/11/1997 W Issues "No Means No" Declaration: 11/11/1997 W chooses to terminate sex 05/1998 I gained 60, then lost 85 pounds. Start running again (marathons)
Most women I know, view strip clubs as consisting of 2 groups of customers.
Group 1 is a bunch of young guys going to a bachelor's party before a wedding; who laugh and drink a lot, or the same group recapturing their youth every 5 years...
Group 2 is made up the kind of man who can't see and touch a naked woman in his own life, but is so lonely for that type of "intimacy" that he pays for it.
I guess we think through our own prisms here. My impression is that many of the men there have wives at home who've shut them off.
Incidentally, at some of the Las Vegas strip shows, there are a lot of couples...resulting in maybe 1/3 women at some of the shows.
Bag said: [i]SSMGuy. You will never get sound advice from the folks on a forum like this one UNLESS you are honest and accurate in the story that you tell us. Otherwise, you are wasting everyone's time -- yours and ours.
The issue for me is that my mindset is pretty much there. I've just lagged a little on implementing. The logic is basically that I don't believe I will ever have a sexual relationship with my wife again, no matter what I do. And I say that because I've spent so many years trying literally everything. At this point, the years have gone by and it's a matter of trying things for the 2nd time, 3rd time, etc... all the things that are the definition of insanity, as they say. And since neither my wife nor I want a divorce, the logic is that if I ever want to know what it's like to have sex with a woman again, it's going to have to be an open FWB type of thing. Maybe I'm on the wrong forum.
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At this point, I strongly suspect that your primary purposes in being here are partly to vent, but also to meet and talk to those 'HD women' that you are so fascinated with and keep asking us about.
You don't need to suspect it. Yes, I want to vent and hear from HD women. Hence the subject heading of this thread. It makes me feel more hopeful that they're all over the place. But meeting in person? Not practical through this board. There are plenty of other websites for that sort of thing, not to mention a few I've incidentally met in person at work or through friends.
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Along those lines, your claims to be in an "open marriage" and seeking "FWB arrangements" amounted to a bit of trolling on your part, with those 'HD women' you wanted to talk to in mind.
Well, like I said, I've already been "offered" several times, but chickened out. I was caught off guard a little and didn't expect it. You just have to have a ready frame of mind for this sort of thing.
And I say that because I've spent so many years trying literally everything. At this point, the years have gone by and it's a matter of trying things for the 2nd time, 3rd time, etc... all the things that are the definition of insanity, as they say.
Two or three times is far from the 'over and over again' from the insanity quote. Five to 6 times? Yeah, but 2 or 3?
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And since neither my wife nor I want a divorce, the logic is that if I ever want to know what it's like to have sex with a woman again, it's going to have to be an open FWB type of thing. Maybe I'm on the wrong forum.
If you're looking for that FWB here...yeah.
Experience is a brutal teacher, but you learn. My God, do you learn. - C.S. Lewis
Life is usually all about how you handle Plan B. - Jack3Beans
Listen without defending; Speak without offending - FaithinAK
How about you write up a formal agreement with W about your FWB plan. You've said in the past she's OK with it. Get it in writing so that you are both very clear on the terms/boundaries/expectations. Heck, get it notarized so that she can't sue you for infidelity.
What is the harm? After all, neither of you wants a D, and both of you are OK with what it takes for you to satisfy your sexual needs outside M. Right?
How about you write up a formal agreement with W about your FWB plan....
I think you have me confused with ssmguy.
Actually my wife and I have an informal agreement worked out by our sex therapist on our vision of a "happy marriage" and we are working on that in fits and starts and making progress. It does involve fidelity, which hasn't been a problem so far.
Just thought I you tease you a bit Oldtimer.
I think that ssmguy should do some introspection regarding what he really wants and realize that if he wants to work on his relationship with his wife, that he will have a higher probability of success if he really commits himself to her. However, it is not a sure thing that reconciliation can be achieved.
>43 years of marriage--My wife and I are now closer than we have been in decades. I believe that my SSM is over.
SSM says that in his opinion, he'll never get to have sex with his wife again, "no matter what" he tries.
He seems to believe this. So, what if he's right?
For the sake of discussion, go from there.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
