Are there any midlife women who want daily sex?

[ssmguy]

Yep, that's pretty much what I'm thinking. I wouldn't be surprised if she said she needed time to think about it. And the merry-go-round would continue.

[oldtimer]

The point is to get off the merry-go-round and do something different. Put your money where your mouth is.

[Jack_Three_Beans]

ssmguy,

Sorry that you feel like it's a stunt. I can only use what you have said, apply it to myself in what I believe I would do...or have done to try and help you.

I could be totally off base here, but this is my take so far:

You don't like the idea of trying 2-3 times, to get results you want. The insanity thing.

You say you are fine with being married to your wife, you love her, it's just that there is no sex. One day you seem ok with that, the next it seems like a FWB is a-ok.

The FWB? Some sort of agreement with your wife regarding that would kill her...but doing it behind her back wouldn't when she found out?

I cannot tell if you're intentionally being obtuse, here, or if I am just missing something.


In your situation, sex is important to me, I got that impression for you too, however, it also feels like your trying to convince yourself, or us that it is not important to you.

I did not give up talking to my wife about a balance in our lives with sex. I also did not approach it the same same same way, when one way did not work.

If however, I did my best and no compromise was met? As in my wife was not having sex with me no matter what? Yeah...pretty much an ultimatium at that point in time. Loving marriage or not. Though I do view a loving marriage where needs/wants are at least attmepting to be met all around.

[25yearsmlc]

well said Jack3.

SSM this is it. You DO say conflicting things. One day a sexless m is not okay with you and the next day, you say there's more to m than sex.
Yeah we get it. We know there's more to it. But you post HERE like it's a big thing and we all think so too.

If my h were unable to perform, I'd deal with it. I would not divorce him.

But If he CHOSE not to ml to me, that'd be another matter.

For my m, that would mean something key was wrong or off. For my marriage, it would probably be the end.

But I have not gone for years without. You have.

We've asked before and I'll ask one more time, what do YOU want?

If you say "the impossible" then I don't know what I'm supposed to do with that except go elsewhere to help someone who doesn't want what is impossible.

If you are alright with a sexless marriage, then so be it. Like I said, if my h could not physically have sex, we'd have a sexless m...although I tend to think we'd get creative...but I could learn to live with his injury in some way, without breaking my vows. Maybe that's how you have to see your w?

We know you don't "like" having a sexless m but you have accepted it for years...or have you?

I can't tell anymore b/c you dance around the FWB issue and cheating issues and act as if telling her would be cruel...but not telling her and doing it isn't.

All I know is the "oh, I'm so stuck" routine is wearing thin.

Make a choice.

[ssmguy]

well said Jack3.

SSM this is it. You DO say conflicting things. One day a sexless m is not okay with you and the next day, you say there's more to m than sex.

I can see that you could INTERPRET what I've said to be contradictory. It seems to be hard for many people to believe that I could thoroughly enjoy other aspects of my marriage even though there is no sex. So I repeat again, I am happy with my marriage, but I'm not happy about the lack of sex. Apparently, this is hard for others to understand, judging by the feedback along the lines that they'd be out of the marriage if there was no sex, love or no love. OK, I get that, but I'm me, not you.

But If he CHOSE not to ml to me, that'd be another matter.

You're adressing another strawman here. If my wife were otherwise OK with sex and liked sex, and then CHOSE not to have sex with me, yes, I'd agree with you. But that's not the problem. She has serious problems with having sex, and she has worked on it and hasn't been able to deal with it fully. Would you want your husband to ml with you if he hated it (the sex, not you), even though he was physically capable?

[25yearsmlc]

that question is more like asking me if my h "could" not have sex (even though technically he could, but he simply had too much baggage to perform??)

then what would I do?

I think that's your question, correct? IF SO, I'd want him to get a full medical work up just as I would if he were to suffer from ED.

I know there are women who develop a condition in which intercourse is actually painful, which sounds like a nightmare. But that's treatable.

IF the situation were reversed, I'd really really want to understand it too.
The underlying causes and the reasons and what role, if any, I played in it. OTherwise it'd be virtually impossible not to take it personally.

I'd have to KNOW why he was refusing me. I've known him to be exhausted and I've known him to be in grief. Even then there was some intimacy.


You don't say much about the why's of it and this does trouble me the most I think. "She just really doesn't like it" sounds vastly insufficient to me...

if that were the reason I was given, ie he simply hates doing it with me or anyone, but once upon a time he did... and he KNEW I missed it and wanted it...and that it hurt my feelings as his partner and my feelings of womanliness...

sorry but I've been with OMs (before the m), and I've turned down way too many I dated who wanted sex and were damn attractive,

so no, I don't think I could handle being m to someone who did not want me.

Not positive yet, but I honestly doubt I could stay with my h in that sitch.

[(Watch someone ask about ED or if my h were paralyzed...that's NOT the hypothetical we are using. I would accept any real physical ailment he had and I'd deal with it.

This hypothetical assumes the facts in SSM's m were reversed and put in mine, albeit with limited information as to why, which is THE crucial question]]

SSm, given the info you have given, It would hurt my ego as a woman, and deny me too much physically, and I'd feel as if someone denied me food only they could give me, (but somehow I didn't die).

I want to taste my food, have good sex, listen to the sounds of good music and children laughing.

I doubt I could be with someone who'd deny me one of those sources of pleasure b/c THEY did not enjoy it.

[/i] There's not a lot of things more personal than sex in marriage.

And you said that she DID like sex earlier in the m, so it's not as if she never has, or did I get that part wrong?

SSM, more power to you if you want to stay m in that circumstance. Understand from my point of view as a woman, that I simply don't know ANY women who are happily married and dislike sex [b]to the extreme/b] of your w.

I DO know women who now have very low libidos for sure, absolutely. That's not rare.

But they either do something about it, (hormones, surgery, therapy)

or they "cope" and ml with their h's anyhow, b/c they love them enough, or want the intimacy. A few sarcastically call it their "wifely duty". But they have sex.

Some confess they are really not attracted to their h's, either b/c of past hurt/anger, or b/c the h's gained a lot of weight or is a goon in bed. But Even the friend with the enormous h still has sex with her him, just not a lot.

Btw, he had lapband surgery so she sees him in a better light now. She seems to appreciate his efforts. I am sure one of his reasons for it, was he wanted his w to be attracted to him. (I know that's not your issue, but it's info).

My request that you dig deeper was based on the women I know, obviously.

And none of the ones even without libido, completely refuse their h's as your w does.

The ones who detest it the most ALL seem to have marital issues you say you don't have. I admit, I resist believing that, okay? Granted, you've been vague, imo about her reasons...but let's say you are accurate and she's wild about you and loves you and the life you've built but she has zero interest in sex AND SHE KNOWS YOU HAVE A LOT of interest in sex...

Sorry but In my heart of hearts, I cannot abide by a woman denying her h ALL forms of sex, while also saying she really loves him (and isn't gay or unattracted to him.) Some rejection is one thing, but total rejection of ALL sex, over years...

Sorry, I cannot wrap my brain around her denying ALL sex to you when she doesn't have a physical problem and YET she loves you AND thinks you're a great guy...

It doesn't jive with me. How can she say she LOVES you and yet deny you so completely? We ALL know there's more to a good marriage than sex. But here, ZERO sex is fine with her and so what if You are hurt by that? So what if it isn't fine with you?? That's not a happy sounding m TO ME......

Yes, see, that's why the "WHY?" is so important here...

SSM the really tough thing for me to say is,



I don't know ANY women like your w, and I know a lot of women, and God knows we talk about sex...

I hope somehow this info helps you. It saddens me.

[25yearsmlc]

refresh my memory please and detail what you know, and what you think your w's problems with sex are, and or what she actually says, so it makes sense. The reasons underlying all this are crucial.


You DID say she once explored things with you, so it's not that she never liked it as you say in the last part of your scenario.

Correct me if I'm misstating that.

[ssmguy]

25yearsmlc, wow, I sure wish my wife had your attitude and thought the way you do! Because if she did, I would consider my problem virtually solved. I would feel she was "on board" with me in starting the journey to solve the problem, rather than just having a wall up that is defended from every angle.

And I totally agree with your attitude from my side. If I had ED, unlike many men I'd be heading for the doctor right away.

Now you ask a very good question, about which you think I've been very vague. The big question: why? And this is something I've asked her until she considered it harrassment. And the reason I kept asking is because she had an endless series of reasons. Sometimes it was just that she was too tired. And when she wasn't tired, it was that I had forgotten to take care of something a week ago that bothered her, which she didn't complain about UNTIL it was convenient to use as an excuse to avoid sex. Yep, those kinds of answers are all that I could get. And then later she mentioned the SA, but it's not clear she really believes that's the reason either. She has said many times she doesn't see the point in sex, though she admits she was turned on early in our marriage. But she doesn't seem to know why she's not turned on any more. And she won't discuss why she never lets me try to stimulate her physically. Pretty much what I've outlined already in earlier posts.

The bottom line is I never found out what the fundamental reason is, even after lots joint sex therapy. Layers of excuses were eliminated and other objections satisified, such as me taking care of the dishes every day, etc. But then it would always be another reason.

I eventually came to the realization that it's not always clear to someone why they don't want sex. And that allowed me to be more understanding because it's now clear that she also believed some of her excuses might be the reason. More dancing, going out, nice restaurants, vacations, etc., and I think she was dismayed and feeling guilty about the fact that sex still seemed to her (as far as I could tell) something that provoked anxiety and to be put off as much as possible.

So if that's what you think rings hollow, well, I'm in full agreement. But I feel confused by all the advice about how men are simple, like a switch, and so all you need is Viagra, and some good lingerie, and they're good to go. But women are so complicated, like the control panels in a 747 cockpit, and I've felt like I could never get it all figured out with my wife. I was never good enough. Those are the feelings I was dealing with for a good while in the early part of the SSM. For example, I would hear advice about foreplay, and I would think, OK, after a romantic dinner and dancing, just exactly when is it that a woman would want foreplay? I tried and never had any luck, I thought I wasn't smart enough. Maybe I always missed those few microseconds when she would have been receptive?! My wife would always say she was tired when we got home. And no rain check for the next morning, when she's busy with stuff that needs to be done.

And of course, after the "I love you's" and good conversation earlier in the evening, when nothing appeared to be happening in bed, I would eventually be stupid enough on some nights to ask, "Why don't you want sex?", which, of course, she considered to be the most unromantic thing for me to say because it made her feel like crap and ruined the evening. So then her reason for not wanting sex was my "unromantic" and crude way of putting her down sexually. I mean, we're talking a "no win situation" here!

Perhaps it's revealing how when there's a sex survey quoted on TV, etc. about how sex is good for your health, increasing your immunity, etc., she would often comment with a laugh that "the survey was probably done by a man!" So, yeah, really, I don't think she fundamentally sees it as an important thing. And if I need to deal with it, well, here's a Playboy and there's the bathroom. Seriously. Kind of funny, but that is kind of her attitude.

As for completely refusing... well, not completely. If I absolutely begged for it I might get an HJ, but that's it. But that just lost its appeal to me after a while.

So, why? Yeah, you tell me. I'd sure like to know myself. Maybe she would too!

[ssmguy]

Sorry that you feel like it's a stunt.

No, don't get me wrong. Not a bad suggestion in most cases I think. It's my wife who would think it was a stunt. I've learned the hard way that putting her in an "ultimatum box" doesn't really work. Perhaps it's related to the powerlessness related to SA, not sure. What I mean is it doesn't work because she will frustrate the process in a way that takes my power away so to speak. In this example with the two sets of papers, what she'd do is leave them there and tell me she'd look them over later. And then probably throw them out.

[ssmguy]

25yearsmlc, the only general thing I can think of is that a woman who's never had an O might have lost interest and hope in ever having it happen by age 50, when children, menopause, and all else has piled on top. If you've never had an O, I could understand the lack of interest in sex, and a lack of understanding that it could be important to anybody. It would seem that to her, when I have an O, it's just like a sneeze. She's even remarked about my O's, and I have to explain that it's because the physical feeling is so intense. I can tell it doesn't really register with her. To her it just seems like a weird kind of trance I go through, and she has no personal experience with it.

And since I've never had a sexual relationship, never mind a single encounter, where a woman has a mutual sexual response, my viewpoint is probably different too. Perhaps I really don't know what I'm missing. Perhaps if we'd had a mutually satisfying sexual relationship, at a frequency close to what I'd have preferred, then I would feel much more that I'm missing something and not wanting to tolerate the lack of it. Perhaps the SSM I have now is not all that different from the best we've had, compared to what it could have been, that is.

25yearsmlc, what would you have done if your husband had never reached an O, and assume you'd never seen a man do that? And everything else about the marriage was OK?