Youngster Questions Reality, WAW Moves On...

[aeolianchaos]

Hey WCF,

Really quick - it sounds like you are focusing alot of attention on your W.

At first, I thought my wife might be BPD, or NPD, or even MPD. And I thought the same about her mother, and at points even wondered these things about myself, and while I do possess a considerable degree of narcissism, I don't think it's diagnosable.

The thing is.. a lot of this is situational, and it's a slippery slope to go down to start making it about inherent psychological issues.

I'm not saying you are incorrect, or it is impossible. But the effort you spend attempting to diagnose her is ultimately not going to be very useful to your quest to develop a stronger sense of who you are. And yet it is entirely in developing a more defined self that you will free yourself from the tethers of your suffering.

[westcoastfella]

I agree with you, Chaos, thanks for the reality check. I have been wracking my brains trying to diagnose my W, I guess, in order to reassure myself that her A and the breakdown of our M was not 100% my fault like she thinks it is. And that my decision to get some space from her crazy train is not a selfish or "immature" one.

I agree with you that a lot of this is situational. Most people who get involved in A's and pursue them, whether BPD, NPD, HPD, whatever, act the exact same way in order to justify what they're doing. She's reading from the same script as everyone else. Right now we're on Act II, Scene IV: "I Can't Stand the Idea That I Can't Control Him Like I Used To So I Will Pull Out Every Weapon I Have To Get Him Back Under My Thumb."

Tomorrow will be the anniversary of the day that we met. We happened to meet each other totally by chance at a comedy show. She sat next to me and we started talking. Next thing you know, I'm spending every night over at her apartment rather than in my dorm room. We used to celebrate this every year as an anniversary of its own.

I have a strong feeling that she will try to get in contact with me tomorrow to "remember the good times." Must not engage. Must get away from her and her power games. She may not like it, but it's not my job to please her anymore.

[westcoastfella]

BTW, to broach a different topic for once, does anybody have any advice about how to handle the sitch with my in-laws?

I do love them very much and wish that I could still be in their lives, but I'm generally feeling like it's not appropriate at the moment. My W has been throwing my lack of involvement with them in my face, but I'm thinking that she's talking out of her butt because then she turns around and tells me to leave them alone.

I'd love to hear how other people have handled this conundrum. I sent them that "how-I'm-doing" e-mail not too long ago, but I'm not sure that it's enough. They were a second family to me for years, after all. I'd love to communicate just how much I appreciate all that they've done.

I hate to think that the last time that I'll ever see them again happened three months ago.

[aeolianchaos]

Hey WCF,

Wrack your brains diagnosing yourself, if your going wrack em on anything. I would recommend taking some time away from either choice, though.. and just sit with your experience to see what you are feeling (as opposed to what you are thinking).

If you don't want to play her games, don't play her games. I don't know if it means disengage - maybe for you, right now, it does. I tend to think that there comes a point where perhaps showing up in an authentic way is going to become far more attractive than a stance of avoiding the WAS.

As far as her parents go - you are free to do what you want, and I would suggest that you pursue it from the perspective of your own integrity and what matters to you.

I would not bring her up, if you did choose to contact them.. perhaps simply acknowledge the degree to which you value YOUR relationship with them as individuals and not as elements of some inseparable aggregate of family members.

[Truegritter]

BTW, is it possible for MLC to be applied to my W even though she's in her mid-twenties?

There is a lot written about MLC on that forum that is good reading.

I tend to just call it crisis. If labeling it helps you then label it.

Your approach should be the same West.

As has been said to you by me and others, this is a process.

Make your choices based on your values not on circumstances or expected outcomes.

My W has been diagnosed with PTSD. Is it a factor in her choices and her behaviors...absolutely I believe.

Is she capable of healing and choosing to be a committed partner in a relationship....absolutely I believe.

I have stood for my M for 22 months now. And it has made all the difference for me and what I wanted to learn about myself, my marriage, love and what it means to love someone even when they are not capable of loving you right now.

I have written to you to look hard at your W because, while she is suffering and making choices that cause you to suffer, allowing yourself to believe that her crisis can be fixed by you or is caused by you is a place you must leave behind.

I am not telling you to walk away from your M.

I am telling you to look at the truth. The truth for you. Own those things you did and don't want to do again.

I also believe that there is not a great chance you and she will have a healthy relationship unless she decides to deal with her demons. Unless she begins to make different choices.

Is that a condition or a boundary?

I don't know. I can only speak for my own situation and say that I will not engage in a relationship with my W again unless I know she is as committed to the relationship as I am. That I see that she understands that her choices are not those that a person in a healthy relationship makes.

That making those choices are harmful to me and our M.

And she accepts responsibility for her choices and not excuses for them.

Love does not mean accepting bad behavior. I have learned it is the power to let someone go and learn from the consequences of their behavior, no matter how destructive we may consider them to be or how opposite of what we want.

Her illness (and it is an illness) is her responsibility. Yours is to learn to love her in spite of it. To have compassion. To survive it yourself and not become of a victim of it as well.

You'll be a victim of it if you allow yourself to think it has any basis in your own worth.

It DOES NOT.

The hard part is you must decide to stand (IMO) through all these doubts of yours about you, your W and your M to understand what it means to you.

What you were meant to learn if you choose to learn it.

All the way through this I had to say to myself to have courage against my fears and doubts.

If you make ordinary choices (those that others might make), easy choices, choices based on fear...

You will get ordinary results.

Then get in line with the others who have and go the places they are destined to go.

Or

Make YOUR choices. For YOUR reasons. Based on YOUR values. In the face of all odds.

Extraordinary choices that will define who you are.

And

You will find extraordinary answers.

You walk your own path and not get in line with statistics and the walking wounded who will never know the fruits of courage.

I have asked this before:

Which guy are you?

You are also invited to read my thread in MLC.

It is all there.

[westcoastfella]

Your lengthy and powerful response to my plight is greatly appreciated, Gritter. There is much in what you have written. I will likely spend a lot of really unpacking your advice and applying it to my own life.

I have decided that I want to stand for my M. (For now.) I did not take my vows lightly. I did not put six years of my blood, sweat, and tears into this M only to see it fall apart like this. I'm not giving up.

But that doesn't mean that I'm accepting the status quo, either. I don't accept the way that she is right now. I don't accept how she makes me feel. Either she comes back to me and makes it right or she leaves me for good, leaving a clean laceration so I can heal. I will not be a friend to her actions now. If I do that, I will be disappointing both her and myself.

I am planning on reading your thread. I have no doubt that I will see growth there that will inspire me.

As for the events tonight, I was right. My W did contact me. She sent me a text: "Just wanted to say hi and let you know that I thought about you today. Hope everything is going well. Give the rabbit some kisses from me."

I didn't send anything in response. Why? I don't know. Just didn't feel like it, I guess. (The desire to be unexpected and mysterious? Just plain old didn't feel like engaging her? Could be a number of things. I am weary today. Must sleep rather than think of her.)

Was depressed and anguished for much of the day, as expected. Got a great six-month review from my boss, so felt great about that. Also watched "Police Academy" for the first time, so I had a big chuckle for a few hours. For the next few days, I'm going to get free breakfast at work. Good food is always good stuff!

[westcoastfella]

This may be against my better judgment, but I wrote a short reply to my W's text. I stuck to a guideline that I've heard here before: validate, then get out. I wrote: "Thank you. Kiss delivered."

I don't know why, but after thinking about it for a day, I didn't feel right not saying something. At least I'm glad that it wasn't mushy or went into any detail about our "memories."

[aeolianchaos]

I see nothing bad about this.

It probably reflects something true about who you are and is pretty solid.

[westcoastfella]

I have read elsewhere on the forums of darkness not being an off/on switch but more of a dimmer. It can be adjusted according to the situation. This has been helpful.

Yesterday, I prayed a lot. However, much of it wasn't "good" or "healthy" prayer; it was really just ruminating out loud. It wasn't getting me anywhere except further down the spiral. I was only focusing more on my W and blowing things up in my mind.

So there came a point when I finally surrendered and gave things over to God. I told Him, "I just can't afford to spend so much time thinking about this anymore. It's driving me crazy. Please take all this from my hands and do what's right. I may not like what happens, but I will adjust."

It felt freeing. The trick will be keeping it up. My rumination and over-thinking developed out of a fear of losing control over my W. Before I met her, I was a pretty relaxed guy. After we started going steady, however, my "bad thoughts" emerged. Every single one threatened to destroy my R with my W!

It makes sense. She was the first thing to come into my life who I loved more than myself. She quickly became more important than anything else in my universe. So when she did all this, it destroyed my universe. An unhealthy view, I know. Must change my perception.

Last night, I watched a goofy and odd Coen Brothers movie called "A Serious Man" which seemed to reinforce everything I've been struggling with over this span of time. Basically, it's about a Jewish man who goes through a Job-like experience of losing everything that's important to him. He sees a couple of different rabbis in an attempt to figure out the Big Why, but no one seems to be able to give him a satisfactory answer.

"Why does he make us feel the questions if he's not going to give us any answers?"
"He hasn't told me."

It helped me submit to the notion that my life does not always run according to my plans. It runs according to His. I've also remembered Viktor Frankl's message in "Man's Search for Meaning": the best that I can do is search for the meaning in my suffering, then learn from it as best I can. It may not be easy, but by God, I will learn.

[Telemark]

Good post. I'm saving this one.

"For the next few days, I'm going to get free breakfast at work."

Is that your bonus for a good six-month review?