wife won't admit PA with OM

[jbnati]

Jake, welcome to the message board. Sorry you're here, but glad you found us.

It looks like you're getting great advice.

I think it's a good sign at least your W is willing to go to MC.

So, those seemingly "small issues" that you cannot believe led to the marital issues, you better stand up and pay attention FAST

I think this is great advice! These issues may seem small to you and possibly other people, but they're HUGE to your W. I am guilty of this myself, and it's a major contributor in getting me to where I am right now.

Like LIS said, concentrate on what you can control, and that's YOU.

LIS, I am happy to see your posts.

Me too, LIS.

[lostinscared]

Awwww... thanks JB

[25yearsmlc]

[quote=jake999]Wow, this is already filled with really good advice, thank you so much.

I completely agree that my focus needs to be on fixing the problems that caused all of this in the first place. I have been putting full effort into everything that is coming out of the MC sessions and honestly doing my best while ignoring her shortcomings for now and just being glad that she is willing to work on things.

really?
B/c it sure seems like THE MOST effort at snooping that I have ever seen on this site...and given the number of posts I've made and the years I've been here, that is saying A LOT...

imo, you snoop way too much for a healthy m to exist....

and as for "ignoring her shortcomings"...um, while YOU are the one posting here, we are NOT interested in HER shortcomings b/c you are the one here trying to save a marriage.

If your real interest is in being declared "right", then this is not the place...

but if your real interest is in WORKING ON YOU and YOU ONLY....then this is the place to be.

Have zero expectations of her at this time. It's ALL about YOU working on YOU and your flaws and shortcomings...NOT hers.



She is also doing some of the things the MC is suggesting.

& what are YOU doing?

I don't want to admit it but I know you all are right about not obsessing over the OM and possible PA. If it's in the best interest of the relationship to not focus on getting info out of her about that for now then I will definitely follow that advice.

it IS in the best interest of the marriage to work oN YOU ONLY and remove the underlying causes of why she'd want an A....

what's with glossing over those "legit issues" and spending most of your post on your "proof" of her wrongdoing?



I don't want to minimize the problems that we are discussing in MC but it's hard for me to accept that they contributed to a PA since in my eyes they are relatively small things that have been going on but are also simple to fix.

I'd bet in her eyes, which are what really matter for this issue, those "small things" add up a lot more than you realize. I'm stunned that you still think your issues were "relatively small"...

in her eyes, she may feel you pushed her into OM's arms...

so own what you need to own as far as this is concerned.

SOME women cheat on great h's...but for the most part, it's not usually that way.

And you have nothing to learn here, if all was well and you were a perfect h.


but do you really honestly believe that? Surely you have room for improvement in some significant way you may have feared really looking at.

Have you read the "Five Love Languages"? I highly recommend it.


I know that she has a female friend that was out of her life for many years and is now back in it that I think is a major negative influence

keep the focus on YOU! Stop deflecting onto others.... b/c YOU are all you can control in this...the rest of the "what if"s are all a waste of your precious energy and time...



because the friend started hooking up with random guys from dating websites... so I think a combination of that influence and the issues we had is what led to the PA.

um, okay whatever....

hey sorry--I know you are in pain

but your focus is so skewed you will get nowhere fast unless you focus on something you can change and the ONLY something is YOU


But how in the world do I stop thinking about the PA? It's consuming every minute of my day and even minutes that I should be sleeping.

Put a STOP SIGN in your mind when those thoughts enter your brain...

AND Become the best man YOU can become.

Do the opposite of the things she has complained of,

be a man only a fool would leave, and then

leaving the results up to God...

the obsessing is unhealthy and UNatrractive. It hurts your cause. Learn to let go and start

serious work on Forgiveness

b/c it's not a skill we are born with. It's learned and it's a process and YOU have clearly not truly started it...realize this:

IF SHE believes you won't forgive

OR she believes

you will hold it over her head like the sword of Damacles, OR

you will throw it in her face every time you fight or don't get your way

then she will NOT want this marriage.



I think that the unknown of all of it is worse than the imagery of whatever really happened... since I'm just assuming all the worst in all situations.

I read the DR book a few weeks ago before she was willing to goto the MC and before I confronted her about the OM. I didn't find any specific advice about handling Infidelity in there if it was ongoing or not admitted.

What difference will it make if she admits it? Or denies it? So Unproductive to put your focus on this!...


I think it was mostly strategies for once it's admitted. I will be looking at it again tonight though. There was definitely a lot of good info about fixing all the problems we have that caused all of this to begin with.

Focus on that^^^ and read the DB book again.

Btw, my W's sister is having a PA that my wife has been telling me about. My W continues to mention it in a very negative light and basically says that the H is going to be really mad about it, that her sister is in a lot of trouble when he finds out, and that her sister is definitely wrong for doing it. As I typed that out I thought to myself that if my wife had a PA that she is somehow expressing remorse by telling me about this? Maybe I'm reading too far into it. Thoughts?


Maybe so...or

maybe you need to read that paragraph on forgiveness and see if that applies and might be why it's pointless to ask her.



Also, we were talking last night about my W's friend that is hooking up with the randoms and pregnancy came up bc her friend was worried about it and I said something about how a certain type of protection was only partially effective and my W basically said that she doesn't even know really because she's married so those things aren't even a concern anymore. Again, reading too much into things?

isn't it obvious you are reading WAY too much into things? Seriously....are you being upbeat and fun at all?

Any GAL? Any 180s? What are they? What would your WIFE SAY are the "small" issues you two have?

What are You doing about them?

Argh, make the thoughts and obsessions stop! [/quote

YOU STOP THE THOUGHTS AND OBSESSIONS....and only you can....

[keep_going]

Jake - sorry to highjack!

25 - is there any way you could please check out my thread??? i am desperate - H just asked for D by text!

thanks...

[2stepboogie]

wow Jake you brought LIS out of retirement and to make it even batter you brought 25 over. Some heavy hitters here bud.

[greenblue90]

Jake
I think you need to stop stressing about whether it happened or not. If you can't let it go just assume she did.

I mean will it change your response whether she did or not? Will you walk out on the M?

Seriously based on all your evidence I think you should just assume she did. See if you can handle the thought.

The way your W sounds she will never come clean about what really happened. When she talked about her sister's affair and how her husband would react she was gauging your reaction. She was waiting for you to say something ridiculous so she could further justify lying to your face.

Look the truth is simple she has lied to you in the past, so you don't trust her. No surprise. Why are you trying so hard. No matter what she says it'll probably never quell your suspicions or fears. So accept it, she most likely had sex with him. How does reading that make you feel?

What will you do now? Dwell on something you have no control over, because it is in the past?

[25yearsmlc]

Jake

IF you believe that a PA will absolutely END the m for you, then snoop away and get a L and divorce. Not complicated....

(also not what I suggest and NOT DBing)

but if it's really really true and you know it and you can't/won't change that...then snoop away and END the m if it's true.

But IF a PA isn't in and of itself the end all to the marriage, then there simply is No reason to snoop.

And UNLIKE Greenblue, I'd operate under the assumption that there WAS NO PA unless I'm confronted with proof of it...

b/c I don't need that pain if there's no proof AND IF I'm trying to stay married....and not go nuts....

Jake
I think you need to stop stressing about whether it happened or not. If you can't let it go just assume she did.

Obviously I disagree with this^^^ for the aforementioned reasons...YES I agree with the "let it go" part.

But you are Not as likely to let go of the obsessing, if you assume a PA.

And with that negative assumption, I think you

seem to make a bunch of others...

(such as assuming they're having great perfect Best sex ALL the time b/c he can go on and on, AND he reads her mind AND her heart and they have ALL things in common, all their tastes are identical YET they "complement each other"...and HE has NO flaws, and he brings out the best in her and blah blah blah....IMPOSSIBLE!!! NOT REALISTIC Jake...)

Since your snooping is so extreme, my guess is that assuming she has had an affair will NOT work for you...

but hey, you tell us.

What's your goal here? You want to be married to her even if means you face some ugly things about her AND ABOUT YOU, and the marriage?


Even if it means you have to let go of her "shortcomings" AND she has to let go of yours?

And you have to work on yourself and your M? THEN do you want to be married to her?

I'm here to tell you that MOST days, the efforts are worth it. But not every day.

There are benefits I see & feel, and that I don't see but I realize they exist.

Like hearing our d14 tell her friends something she and her dad did together that would not have happened if we were divorced...and the mere fact we are together says something to my kids that I HOPE helps them in life...

but I also get benefits too, obviously. Yes we laugh again, and we trust again. We've been through something and seem to have gotten to the other side.

I KNOW that life will again throw us a curve ball, like his mother's death did. I don't think I could have managed to do it if we had not gotten to a good place in our marriage AND H would not have been able to express his gratitude, I think, if he'd been riddled with guilt or anger from his MLC, instead of us having processed it all.

And life will give us more curveballs b/c that's what life does.

Good things happen every day if you look, BUT there will also be sadness, grief, setbacks, accidents, injuries, illness & frustration again.

I'm glad we have tools we didn't have before AND that I know it's possible to get to the other side of a sad time...YES It IS possible to get there.


I mean will it change your response whether she did or not? Will you walk out on the M?

Seriously based on all your evidence I think you should just assume she did. See if you can handle the thought.

The way your W sounds she will never come clean about what really happened.

GB why even speculate this way? I don't get it. Where's the value in projecting this? It fuels all his worst fears AND he already had a HUGE problem with painful obessing AND futurizing AND snooping....and

THIS is in the future so it is NOT even knowable AND it's all negative, AND you state it like it's fact.. I'm surprised by this approach.

When she talked about her sister's affair and how her husband would react she was [b]gauging your reaction. She was waiting for you to say something ridiculous so she could further justify lying to your face.
[/b]
Wow....I'm leery of this much^^^ mind reading, especially the negative type.

But I guess IF you can manage even the worst case scenarios and the torture you inflict on yourself is survivable, it's useful info to have. But you could figure it out without all that pain I think... B/C it's also potentially needless self inflicted torture.

(GB, seriously are you sure no projecting is happening here??? Good grief)


I think your w could just as well be internally conflicted as hell about what She and her sister are doing...

MAYBE she's trying to figure out where SHE is on the spectrum...AND possibly wants to distinguish her situation from her sister's, AND

OR

she is worried that there are too many similarities and she is doing some real instrospection, and OR she worries what others will think of HER actions based in part on what they say about her sister


AND OR she is gauging whether you are the forgiving type, by how you characterize her sister.

Are you judging her sister harshly, with concern about future regret, dismissing her curtly, mocking or condemning or sympathizing or what??

IF your wife does not believe you can forgive an affair and
IF she has had one, then like I said, it's over...

And IF she does NOT believe that marriage to you can be better/different

then it's over...

So...what do you want? And what are YOU DOING to help with this^^^ stuff??



Look the truth is simple she has lied to you in the past, so you don't trust her. No surprise.

um...Not so simple to me...

Jake (and GB for that matter)

Have you ALWAYS TOLD HER THE 100% TRUTH?? REALLY? All the time? Even about work issues, and your family? And friend's lives? ALL THE TIME ALL THE TRUTH??? That's very very rare...

Jake, I take issue with this...and

GB, no offense b/c I know you have well intended advice and you've read a lot, but this is a tad too black and white for me, but maybe that's b/c I've been m now for 30 years...


Why are you trying so hard.


um, b/c he wants to be married AND happy...or so I think. GB, given what your story is, what does this question even mean?

YOU GB have put up with a lot of stuff others would not, and yet here you are asking Jake why he's trying so hard...what??

No matter what she says it'll probably never quell your suspicions or fears. So accept it, she most likely had sex with him. How does reading that make you feel?


WOW...the ONLY VALUE this 'worst case scenario assumption'^^^ MAY have, is if you discover you could not handle it

...but if it's still unclear to you OR If you still want to make things work,

why make it harder on YOURSELF, by assuming the worst???

(and why repeatedly insist on that, GB?)

What will you do now? Dwell on something you have no control over, because it is in the past?

Jake Can you go "from this day forward" or not?

it's interesting that those words are in most marriage vows.

You can't hold onto the past AND be happy. Be here now...be in the moment.

To do that, you'll need to really work on and

Read up on Forgiveness- it's not easy to do

BUT IT IS mandatory to a happy marriage.

You cannot be happily married AND hold onto this pain and anger and neither can she.

And trust me, SHE has pain and anger that somehow justified her behavior.

What are YOU working on in YOU?

[greenblue90]

25
I was trying to say:

"what if the PA turned out to be true? What will you do then?"

There is a chance all his suspicions are true, and I think he needs to be prepared. As we have both seen here anything could happen, OM may cold call the house to get revenge for getting dumped, or his W may have a guilt attack and come clean. All possibilities. Jake are you ready to handle this?

Whether a PA/EA even happened she has betrayed his trust, the prepaid phone is a huge dishonest move infidelity or not. Jake needs to find out if he can get past this before any real DBing begins.

I can tell Jake is scared, most of us here have known this feeling. I just hope he can find the strength to keep moving forward no matter the outcome, (and we know it could be an ugly one).

[Harrier]

.

Jake, happy people do not have affairs. Happy people do not have affairs even if their best friends are having affairs. Just doesn't happen. Unhappy people have affairs. So, those seemingly "small issues" that you cannot believe led to the marital issues, you better stand up and pay attention FAST. I fear that this casual attitude regarding her issues is showing in your attitude during your conversations with your W. That's very hurtful to people and it leads to a feeling of hopelessness on the part of our spouses. I would seriously reconsider your position regarding these issues and focus a bit more.

Yeah that's not exactly true, A 2008 study in the Journal of Marriage and Family found that people in happy marriage do indeed have affairs. They aren't nearly the rates as people in unhappy marriages, but this is just another DB platitude that doesn't have bearing in the real world.

Most likely there are problems when someone strays, but not always.

In fact, I'd say thinking your marriage is happy can lull you into a false sense of security.

Also, you are asking the OP to do something that is basically impossible now. DB ask you to perform herculean, if not impossible mental gymnastics. That's why a large % of the people her back slide and do it often.

Instead of just saying "don't think about it." I'd suggest an alternative.

[lostinscared]

hahahaha... I don't often get accused of speaking in platitudes especially since I'm not one of the people who agrees with all of the tenets of DB. Sometimes, people just have an opinion.

I did offer alternatives that were beyond "don't think about it." With that said, being a long-time vet, what would you suggest as an alternative?