I've been married to my wife for 8 years and we have 2 kids together.
There was an OM that my wife was "just friends" with for like 2 months. She hung out with him many times and I suspect that she spent the night at his place a couple times. He has a young child but he lives with his parents still so thats debatable…
During that time she decided that she didn't want to be with me anymore. She said it was because of some legitimate relationship problems we have been having. She moved into our guest bedroom during this time.
After a while I got suspicious and started snooping. I found out about the OM and had her end their "friendship". I never found a smoking gun of evidence that there was a PA. However, I found some suspicious texts on her phone. Some of them I recovered from a text recovery software so I can't confirm which side of the conversation was my wife. The texts in question are to or from her female friend mentioning meeting up with him that night and "boning him". It could have been her friend meeting up with a guy because she was on a recent one-night stand kick due to her desperation. Or, it could have been my wife talking about finally doing it with the OM. Unfortunately, it's impossible to know which one.
I found texts on my wife's phone to a different female friend where my wife wanted to meet up with the OM one more time after I told her to end it for "closure" and the friend asked if she would be able to resist kissing him and said, "cuz kissing will lead to bumping uglies and then u will be back at square one". Also, at an unknown previous time the OM sent a text saying my wife looked hot in a shirt she was wearing. That's not something you normally say to someone that you don't have anything going on with.
After catching her at his house via a built-in GPS tracking feature on our cellphones I told her that she must not see him or talk to him ever again. She said she wouldn't. I recently found a prepaid cellphone that she hid that had his number programmed into it. However, the phone battery was dead and I have checked it the last 2 weeks and she hasn't charged it. So, I think that she may really have stopped talking to him. She doesn't know that I know about the cellphone because I don't want to admit to more snooping, especially if she's not talking to him anymore.
We started seeing a MC a few weeks ago. We have had 3 sessions. All 3 have been good and we are making progress with the things discussed. However, the only items that we are discussing have been the issues we had before the OM. Neither of us have mentioned anything about the OM.
I am finding that the OM is totally occupying my mind and I am obsessed with thinking about it. I am trying my hardest to overcome it but there are so many unknowns and so many conclusions that I'm jumping to that it's killing me. I literally can't go an hour without thinking about it in some way. It's definitely affecting my ability to reconcile our relationship.
My wife refuses to admit that the relationship was anything more than a friendship. I don't bring it up to my wife or the MC because I am afraid that she will continue to deny it and it will only cause us to split further apart. How do I approach that? I really want to know what went on, I'm not good at accepting that I may never know. How do I block the thoughts from dominating my life? But, if nothing really did happen then I'm going to completely push her away.
Have you taken a breath yet? You need to. First, you need to calm down. I understand that you are feeling desperate and you are devastated by the affair you perceive, but you really need to get things in perspective.
I have some good news for you and some bad news for you. Good news? Unlike many of us, you are in a good position where your wife is willing to work on the marriage with you (through counseling). The bad news? You will blow up every inch of progress and push her into OM's arms if you keep up the obsession regarding the affair. Will she ever admit to it? I don't know. What I am pretty sure of, however, is that she will not admit to it anytime soon. This I know from experience. My H had an affair that has ended as well. However, he will not admit to it. For a long time, I thought this was a huge deal. I'm learning that it isn't and I should have been concentrating on other things.
Jake, I'm curious... you glossed over "legitimate relationship problems" as if they were secondary to your marital issues. They are not. This is your PRIMARY problem. It was these "legitimate relationship problems" that most likely led to the affair and will lead to further problems down the road if they are not resolved. I would be curious to know what these issues are.
Also, have you read DB or DR? If not, I highly suggest you do that immediately. You must understand that pushing your agenda and your timing will further alienate your wife and erode your relationship.
And Jake, here's a list of do's and don't's that helped me enormously when posted in my first thread:
1.Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore! This turns the spouse completely off!
2. No frequent phone calls to spouse.......let her be the one to call you. Then don't try to hang on to your spouse through conversation.....instead, you say good-bye first.
3. Do not point out good points in marriage or try to get him/her to read marriage books, look at your M pictures, etc. Especially, do not get him/her to read the DB/DR book. That is for you only!
4. Do not follow your spouse around the house like a puppy dog trying to get his/her time and attention.
5. Do not encourage talk about the future. They don't want to think about a future with you at the moment, so stay clear of that subject.
6. Do not ask for help from family members or friends. Don't discuss private matters with them that would upset your spouse.
7. Do not ask for reassurances (That is showing neediness and being clingy.) Show self-respect and self confidence.
8. Do not buy gifts to make "brownie points". (Can't buy his/her love and affection.)
9. Do not schedule dates together at this point. (That is pursuing.) Save for later when the R is much better.
10.Do not spy on spouse by checking emails, phone bills, etc. (Not good for you and will make matters worse.)
11.Do not say "I Love You" (It is being "pushy" and trying to make your spouse say it back to you......he/she will despise you for it.)
12.Act "as if" you are moving on with your life with or without them and that you are going to be okay. Keep a good attitude.
13.Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive at all times! In other words, be the best you can be and look the best you can look at all times. Even when wearing jeans and T-shirt, wear good cologne, b/c it does cause the spouse to take notice.
14.Don't sit around waiting on your spouse to see what kind of mood he/she is in or what he/she is going to do or say – get busy, think of things to do. Go to church, go out with friends, etc. in order to get a life for yourself without waiting on your wife/husband.....but it is okay to invite them, just don't act as if it will change your plans if they do or don't go.
15.When at home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation---then don't, wait for him/her) then, be rather scarce or with your words, but don't sound rude or too short like you are mad. If your spouse asks what's wrong....just say "nothing" and have a pleasant expression on your face. Keep it short and simple. Don't get into an argument! Stay polite and don’ t act like you are pouting. Use poise and class. This does not mean to act like you aren’t speaking, but don’t be overly talkative.
16.If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK THEM NOTHING!! No matter what time he/she comes home! You are giving them space and asking no questions! You enjoy your time with your kids, friends, etc. Remember, you are getting a life, also.
17.You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.
18.Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what he/she will be missing. (But never ask him/her if he/she has noticed any changes!!) This is important! If you do, then you have blown it.
19.No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. This can confuse some of them b/c it is not what they expected. Show your spouse someone he/she would want to be around all the time, somebody that can be attractive and fun to be with. That somebody is you! Don't overkill in your attempts to outshine another person your spouse may be having an A with (if there is OP in the picture) to the point of looking like your attempts are "fake" b/c your spouse will see through all of that.
20.All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while)so this takes patient on your behalf.
21.Never lose your cool! Don't let your spouse trap you into a fight. Don't take her/his bait.....leave the room or the house for a while, if you have to, in order to avoid a fight.
22.Don't be overly enthusiastic, don't over-kill; in anything you do b/c it will come across as fake.
23.Do not argue about how your spouse feels about something (it only makes his/her feelings more negative.) Only they know how they feel!
24.Be patient......very, very patient. Give your spouse space and time. When you pull back, it will draw them towards you. It feels opposite of what you want to do, but it works!
25.Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you. Look them in the eyes when they talk to you. Do not interrupt them when they are speaking and stop what you may be working on to look at them when they talk. This shows them that you really care about what they are saying.
26.Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out (or scream and yell).
27.Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil). This is for your health's sake.
28.Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly. Read self help books, inspirational books or listen to tapes. They are for you only.
29.Know that if you can do 180's, your smallest CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.
30.Do not be openly show that you are "desperate" or "needy" even when you are hurting more than ever and truly feel desperate and needy. This is a large turn-off for your spouse.
31.Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse, instead, focus on them.
32.Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives becausehe/she is hurting and scared.
33.Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
34.Do not ask your spouse if he/she has noticed your changes. Those changes are for you and for the rest of your life...with or without your spouse. If it is just to get your spouse back...they won't last and the same problems will return.
35.Do not send several TM's or emails throughout the day unless absolutely necessary.
36. It is best to stay away from the bar scenes where other problems easily arise.
37. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes.
J9, There is a lot of wisdom in what LIS has posted. Take it to heart.
Down the road after the legitimate relationship problems have been resolved for a long time your relationship might be strong enough to broach this. Hopefully by that time you won’t need to.
Is getting her to admit to a PA you really don’t have direct evidence for your ego talking?
Is your first priority to reconcile and make the relationship stronger? How does getting her to admit to a PA fit in the path for that goal?
When she feels safe enough to speak honestly about what really happened, not what you fear has happened will you be ready to hear it?
LIS, I am happy to see your posts.
BITS Me 55, ACK, when did that happen? Doesn't feel like 55 D 30 S 27
You create your own universe as you go along - Winston Churchill
What you're going through is terrible and painful in the extreme. As lostinscared pointed out you are lucky compared to many folks who find themselves here because your W is willing to work with you and has not shut you out.
Your W has moved away from you emotionally -- she did this BEFORE the OM came along. Her detaching from you created a void that was available for OM to fill. He is NOT the cause of your problems, he is a symptom.
You're now in a precarious position -- anything you do has the potential to push your W farther away. You need to know that is as serious as a heart attack. The balance of power in your relationship has shifted, and you do not have the power to make the demands you may have once been able to make. Everything you do right now has to be measured against the yardstick of "Will this make my W resent me? Will this push W farther away?"
Thoughts of OM will absolutely dominate your thoughts right now, that's normal, and there's really not much you can do about it except to cope. The telephone coaches on this site can help you with that, they are a tremendous asset.
You need to look at what you want, this may include:
1) Getting your W back in a committed relationship with you and moving the marriage forward
2) Finding out everything that happened between W and OM, and then getting W to apologize and demonstrate remorse.
Unfortunately, #2 is almost always 100% opposed to #1, so which one is more important to you? That's the gut-check you need to do right now, because you can't have both.
There will be time to talk about OM later when the relationship has had time to heal and you're both committed. Right now there is a rift between you and focusing on #2 will make that rift wider and deeper, and you will need to painfully recover every inch of that lost ground in pursuit of #1.
Let me give you a preview of what to expect:
When your W engaged in her relationship with OM, it altered her brain chemistry, she felt "in love", which is a wonderful feeling. It literally gives you a high like drugs or alcohol. That high is addicting, and people smitten by it will often do anything to keep it going, including lying to their spouse. The other thing this chemical reaction does is reduce our capacity for rational thought. She put OM on a pedestal and was unable to see his flaws. The relationship was based on fantasy, and deep down she may realize that.
When your W finds herself in this position, she knows it is wrong. She doesn't want to be the kind of person who has affairs, but having it feels so good, she needs to construct a rationalization in her mind. The most attractive rationalization is that you pushed her into it! You weren't meeting her needs, you weren't attentive, etc. That allows her to feel better about what she's doing. Just as she will ignore OM's faults, she will amplify yours and convince herself that what she's doing is justified. That makes you "the bad guy" even though you've done nothing different than what you were doing before.
Now that said, it takes two to make things go wrong, so there are undoubtedly problems that you did cause and issues you brought to the relationship. You need to focus on fixing those now, and do it with all the focus you can muster.
When your W's affair ends (and it may not be over yet), W will go through a period of grief. She will not tell you that's what's going on, but she will be irritable, distant, and will once again be eager to find fault.
YOU will expect an apology, you will expect to see remorse, and you will not get it. The more you walk around looking sad, the more you try to make her feel guilty, the more she will resent you. She does not want to feel responsible for your happiness, and she does not want your condemnation of her behavior, she feels you deserved it, because that makes her feel better about it!
Buy and read "Divorce Busting" and "The Divorce Remedy", do it right away. You have a golden opportunity to stabilize things before they get worse. If you follow your intuition and do what instinct tells you to do, you will blow it. It's now time to "do the opposite" of what you think you should do.
Tread lightly Jake, be careful with everything you say / ask / expect right now.
Good luck!
Accuray
Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11 Start Reconcile: 8/15/11 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced) In a New Relationship: 3/2015
Wow, this is already filled with really good advice, thank you so much.
I completely agree that my focus needs to be on fixing the problems that caused all of this in the first place. I have been putting full effort into everything that is coming out of the MC sessions and honestly doing my best while ignoring her shortcomings for now and just being glad that she is willing to work on things. She is also doing some of the things the MC is suggesting.
I don't want to admit it but I know you all are right about not obsessing over the OM and possible PA. If it's in the best interest of the relationship to not focus on getting info out of her about that for now then I will definitely follow that advice.
I don't want to minimize the problems that we are discussing in MC but it's hard for me to accept that they contributed to a PA since in my eyes they are relatively small things that have been going on but are also simple to fix. I know that she has a female friend that was out of her life for many years and is now back in it that I think is a major negative influence because the friend started hooking up with random guys from dating websites... so I think a combination of that influence and the issues we had is what led to the PA.
But how in the world do I stop thinking about the PA? It's consuming every minute of my day and even minutes that I should be sleeping. I think that the unknown of all of it is worse than the imagery of whatever really happened... since I'm just assuming all the worst in all situations.
I read the DR book a few weeks ago before she was willing to goto the MC and before I confronted her about the OM. I didn't find any specific advice about handling Infidelity in there if it was ongoing or not admitted. I think it was mostly strategies for once it's admitted. I will be looking at it again tonight though. There was definitely a lot of good info about fixing all the problems we have that caused all of this to begin with.
Btw, my W's sister is having a PA that my wife has been telling me about. My W continues to mention it in a very negative light and basically says that the H is going to be really mad about it, that her sister is in a lot of trouble when he finds out, and that her sister is definitely wrong for doing it. As I typed that out I thought to myself that if my wife had a PA that she is somehow expressing remorse by telling me about this? Maybe I'm reading too far into it. Thoughts?
Also, we were talking last night about my W's friend that is hooking up with the randoms and pregnancy came up bc her friend was worried about it and I said something about how a certain type of protection was only partially effective and my W basically said that she doesn't even know really because she's married so those things aren't even a concern anymore. Again, reading too much into things?
I would duck, if I were you, you have some 2x4's coming your way... you'll soon learn what those are.
Jake, happy people do not have affairs. Happy people do not have affairs even if their best friends are having affairs. Just doesn't happen. Unhappy people have affairs. So, those seemingly "small issues" that you cannot believe led to the marital issues, you better stand up and pay attention FAST. I fear that this casual attitude regarding her issues is showing in your attitude during your conversations with your W. That's very hurtful to people and it leads to a feeling of hopelessness on the part of our spouses. I would seriously reconsider your position regarding these issues and focus a bit more.
As far as getting these thoughts out of your head... you just HAVE to. Start figuring out what to replace those thoughts by in your mind when they come up. Meditate. Do anything you can. But understand, you push this issue? YOU WILL LOSE. Every single time. No doubt about it. With virtual certainty. Sorry for the directness, but its experience talking here.
I know it is painful and I am so sorry for what you are going through but it's time to shift gears.
I think I'm minimizing the issues because I do not feel they are major. But you are right, the fact that I'm in this situation should be enough to make me realize that I cannot minimize them. They must be major to her, especially if they led to a PA or in the best case scenario an EA.
As for blocking out the thoughts... I'm trying to rationalize with myself that I need to "just do it".
A recurring theme in some of the meetings has been that she keeps saying she wants to the old me back... the person I was a few years ago. I'm definitely not as outwardly happy as I used to be and I think that is the hardest change I'm working on since internally, as you know, I'm a mess.
Btw, I really like that "happy people do not have affairs".
Oh, Jake, I know it hurts. I know it hurts bad. I watched my H's A with a co-worker take place right in front of me (we both work for the same company). You must figure out a way to replace those thoughts for now. You must also find a way to forgive her if you have any hopes of saving this marriage. Meaning, I want you to assume the affair happened. Can you forgive her? If so, what steps do you need to take in order for this to happen. Jake, read carefully... what steps do YOU need to take, not your W.
Is it possible for you to tell us what issues she is having with you? Also, why is it that you are not as "outwardly happy?" What's going on in your own life that is causing this??
Thank you, JS. Good to see you too!