Jake, I have been exactly - exactly - where you are; the OM who is "just a friend"; the secret phone calls, TMs and e-mails; the need to snoop to find out the extent of the EA/PA (and yes, my W also confronted me about my snooping, I denied it and that just made things 10X worse); the imagination running away with all kinds of scenarios...
It is a terrible, painful and seemingly impossible situation to be in. You have no control over what your W does, where she goes or who she sees. But like gb90 said, you do not have to be a doormat. Your W has no respect for you; if she did, she would not be doing this. Women do not love who they do not respect. If you want any chance of putting the brakes on this situation, you need to let her know you will not tolerate this level of betrayal and disrespect.
Here is a small speech I wish I would have made to my W...
"W, I am aware of your relationship with OM. I will not be in an open marriage, nor will I tolerate dishonesty and betrayal in our marriage. If you want to remain married and in our house, there needs to be absolutely no contact with the OM from this minute forward, and we must seek counseling to help repair the damage that has already been done.
If you wish to continue your relationship with OM, I will not stand in your way, but you cannot do that and remain married to me or living in our house, so you need to make other arrangements.
W, I choose us. I choose our marriage. But I cannot make that choice for you. If you choose another path, I wish you well."
gb90 is also dead on when he suggest reading edited by dbmod: reference not recommended nr allowed It does not suggest we all become bullying Neanderthals, but it addresses those dysfunctional behaviors in a lot of men that cause them to try to please everyone at the sake of their self-respect and self-esteem. Buy it, Jake. Read it. Read it again. I'm on my 4th reading and I'm still finding sections that make me look at myself and say, "Telemark, you've got some work to do...".
Jake, my heart aches for you and for anyone else going through this. But I also have to say this: regardless of what happens between you and your W, if you stand up for yourself, your principles, your morals and your sanity you will be OK. It will not happen in a few days, a few weeks or even a few months, but even if your W walks off into the sunset with the OM (as mine did) you can know that you did not compromise your integrity.[i][/i]
Last edited by dbmod; 11/19/1102:30 PM.
H 56 W 48 D27,S21 SS25 SS22 Severely autistic M(#2 for both) 9 1/2 yrs. "I've never loved you" 3/7/2011 Separated 8/7/2011 BITS
Sometimes the LBS will threaten or actually leave, all of a sudden the WAS comes crashing back to earth after they realize they now have to deal with the mess they have created.
All of a sudden the good old days of family bliss the WAS and the LBS shared become clear. OM can't or refuses to match them, now the WAS has to make a choice, this is when you finally have a chance Jake.
This is good advice, and it *may* unfold like that, but please also realize it's just as likely that an ultimatum on your part will lead to her leaving and not looking back.
She has a safety net right now with OM and has convinced herself that OM is the better choice (at least temporarily) for her happiness.
Therefore, the advice you're getting here is good -- but don't go into it with the assumption that making an ultimatum will lead to her rethinking her decisions. It may well lead to her getting off the fence and going the other way (for now at least).
If you make an ultimatum, you need to be ready, willing and able to enforce the "or else" or the respect referred to above will take an even BIGGER hit. If you lay down the law, you need to enforce it.
Therefore, before you present the ultimatum, you need to be OK with a scenario where she is gone.
Given how badly you're feeling about her infidelity, are you at a place where you can see that might be better for you, or not?
--Accuray
Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11 Start Reconcile: 8/15/11 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced) In a New Relationship: 3/2015
We often hear that the feelings in the A are like an addiction, but you know what else produces the same feelings as an addiction.
If you guessed snooping you are correct. My MC and C both told me that snooping can be just as addictive as anything else like a real addiction.
that's why it's so hard to just stop or telling people to just stop isn't always enough. I mean tell you SO to just stop and A and see how hard that gets.
My MC told me that a person snoops when they are bored, tired, lonely, scared, or other similar emotions. They key is recognize when you are feeling those emotions and do something to either get you out of that emotion or take your mind off.
Also, the other part is that your W suspected you were snooping BECAUSE YOU WERE. It's not fun being accused of looking sneaky, suspicious, controlling and needy. But there is only one way to not have those accusations mean anything.
Patience is bitter, but its fruit is sweet. --Jean Jacques Rousseau.
Thank you all for the awesome advice. My W confronted me about the snooping last night before anyone had replied. I told the truth about the snooping and what I had seen. At first she claimed she didn't remember the conversation. Then as I started detailing some of it she said that I misinterpreted the tail-end of the conversation... that it was all an inside joke making fun of her friend. It is true that the whole A started off as my W's friend being interested in the OM's friend. My W's friend is desperately lonely and very man-crazy, so that's possibly true but sounds unlikely.
We both agreed that neither one of us trusts each other to either not snoop or not talk to the OM. She stuck by her story that she hasn't talked to him since we started going to the MC and I sorta believe it based on how she's been acting and how this conversation that I saw was going. She claims that she got the prepaid phone weeks ago because she knew that I had been snooping on hers. I don't know why she had it turned on yesterday and I didn't think to ask.
I made it perfectly clear that no contact means no contact with the OM. She agreed and said she will get rid of the phone and thats the end of it.
She claims that the whole thing is totally ridiculous because the OM is homosexual. To me that sounds like the perfect lie because it would transform the whole PA thing into some kind of EA.... which is not OK but is at least a little better. It's possible that the OM is homosexual since she said that is what caused him to be kicked out of the military a few years ago and she said during the initial confrontation we had over 6 weeks ago, "you don't even know if he's straight." I don't really buy it but thats the story she's going with now.
The next day, today, my W was at the Dr's office and we texted a little bit. She said that she was really happy with some of the changes we had been working on with the MC, enjoyed getting along with me, and spending time with me. She said that we were both wrong but she feels like I'm doing these things so that she leaves. She wants to forget it all and be able to trust me and work on the things we have been. And she said that she wants to start today and be 100% honest with each other. She said that if the OM texts her she will ignore it and tell me about it. I told her there are inconsistencies with her story and the info I have from snooping and she said we can talk about that. How do I approach that?
The next day, today, my W was at the Dr's office and we texted a little bit. She said that she was really happy with some of the changes we had been working on with the MC, enjoyed getting along with me, and spending time with me. She said that we were both wrong but she feels like I'm doing these things so that she leaves. She wants to forget it all and be able to trust me and work on the things we have been. And she said that she wants to start today and be 100% honest with each other. She said that if the OM texts her she will ignore it and tell me about it.
Wow! Many people on this board would be absolutely thrilled if their W said that -- you should be very happy! You won the DB lottery with that one!
Originally Posted By: Jake999
I told her there are inconsistencies with her story and the info I have from snooping and she said we can talk about that. How do I approach that?
So don't blow it by doing that!
It sounds to me like she's willing to draw a line in the sand, say "let's forget what's happened" and start again. That's awesome! That's a huge opportunity.
I would embrace it. I would assume the best possible interpretation from whatever happens going forward. I would continue your 180's and your GAL. I would make sure your wife feels loved by understanding her love language. I would be the kind of husband that only a fool would leave (to quote 25).
I would go for it like your life depended on it.
Will it stink if you're being naive and she's playing you? Yes, if that happens, you can decide how to react.
WHAT WOULD BE MUCH WORSE IS NOT TAKING THIS CHANCE! If you can't get over your distrust, hurt and suspicion and that prevents you from committing 100%, then you're more than likely going to fail. You have to jump in the deep end of the pool here.
When we started piecing, my W kept insisting that I tell her it would be OK if things don't work out. I kept telling her that if I lived my life with failure as a possible outcome that I was comfortable with, then I wouldn't succeed in being the person I want to be. Why give yourself an out? (I finally had to tell her that of course I'd be OK if things didn't work out, but I was going to spend zero time thinking about that)
Good luck Jake, grab the handlebars and go for it, you just got the Willy Wonka magic ticket in my opinion!
Accuray
Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11 Start Reconcile: 8/15/11 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced) In a New Relationship: 3/2015
Jake I do hope your W had the awakening she needed. Nonetheless if she truly was having an A like an addict she mayl rebound. A lot of infidelity materials place the burden of proof on the person caught or accused of cheating. They need to understand that their actions whether real or perceived, have hurt the spouse, and must do what they can to make things better. Right now the more transparency you two have the better.
She shouldn't have to hide anything, and you shouldn't have to dig it out. If you read the stories where the spouse comes back, or the poster is the unfaithful one, you'll find an almost desperate need by the offending spouse to be transparent.
Trust needs to be rebuilt, total honesty is by far the best way to do it.
Cobra: I let my old thread die out, the advice here wasn't quite fitting my situation. I pop in here to pay it forward.
