Being thankful and praying

[angel61]

HI Harrier,

I like that statement - focus on where your feet are. I will remember that!

[angel61]

Easy to say, hard to do.

I keep reminding myself to just focus on the positives, but its so hard when we seem to be getting into each others nerves again. maybe its just the stress of the holidays, who knows.

New Years we went to Vegas and I was determined to have fun with D. Problem with H is that he was so worried about everything. So we go out close to midnight on the strip where there were thousands of people. I was taking pictures and suddenly, H snaps at me that he was getting annoyed with me for taking pictures up close. I got annoyed to and started arguing with him. It ended quickly but I just felt pissed and did not enjoy the rest of the night.

This is the start of several more incidents which looking back, I should just have shut up and ignored him.

When we got back to the hotel again he picked a fight with me. I was acting a little moody, of course after the incident in the street.

H: Why are you throwing a tantrum?
M: I am not, just annoyed that we don't have nice pictures. Why don't you smile when we have pics together?
H: I don't like it when you post my pics on FB. YOu are not respecting my wishes.
M: You never told me you did not like me doing that, in fact you ask me to post stuff on FB for you! And I do choose those in which you look OK!

This ended up with me so annoyed I wanted to toss our camera out of the balcony. I know, I was being dramatic, and that is one of my faults. But the point is, our little arguments are making me backslide.

The next day, all was fine again. H woke up happy, as though we had no fight, even wanted to ML. So I just put it behind me.

In the car going home though, I made a little discovery. I had his iphone with me to keep track of directions, and he would ask me to call people every now and then. I saw in his contacts that OW number was no longer there, and that he had deleted all of the pics with OW in them. Good, I thought. But suddenly, I had an intution that one of the entries there was not real (it was the name of a girl he had hired prior to OW, same position) and I looked at it. True, it had OW's phone numbers!

I was so bothered that he was hiding OW's number. I wrestled with myself on whether to confront him or not.

At first, I just decided to let it go. But when we got home, that evening before sleeping, I decided to confront him about it.

I approached it by first talking about how I felt comfortable that we were progressing in our relationship, that I did not anymore focus on OW as a threat. He said he knew that. So then I asked him why he had to keep OW's number hidden, I felt there was subterfuge involved. He said that was so I would not see OW's name and feel bad, to remove reminders. I said that I would rather see OW's name than think he was hiding something, because then what other things would he be hiding? He said he had not called her at all, and didn't even know if that number was active. I said OK, I believe him.

I decided to end it there, just to keep from having more dicussions.

To be continued.....

[angel61]

OK, here's the continuation of my saga:

So we did lay to rest the OW matter for now. Although that is only outwardly, inside me I notice that I do seem to get more episodes of memories returning to haunt me, I remember the things they texted to each other, I think about what my H wrote in his journal about his feelings for OW, I wonder why he cannot say the same things to me, or text or write me in the same manner as he did OW.... and I feel anger and resentment welling up inside me. It sometimes takes so much for me not to confront H, ask questions. Couple of times I have cried out loud in the car, or when I am alone.

Another issue that is surfacing right now is financial.

During the time that the sitch was going on, H was working 2 jobs, and we had a lot of money, and so I decided that engaging with him on money matters was not going to be worthwhile. He did spend a lot of designer clothes and hunting trips, and I just told myself to not add to the problem by pointing it out.

Last Christmas, my H and I had this nice talk about how we were going to organize our financial lives. I was assuming that we were getting back to normal footing and that his gesture was proving that.

We decided that we have so and so extra money each month, not much really.

But.....as soon as we got back to the house after NY, H disappeared and came back with a new hunting rifle. A custom built rifle costing 2 thousand dollars. Wow! I never knew he had ordered one. He was excited but I could not help but be a bit pissed that he did not tell me about it, considering that it was a big expense, after we just had all that money talk.

And then, he bought himself another jacket - an Armani!

I do believe that he is still in MLC, and this time, its all of these things that he is using to self medicate. At least its no longer OW....

Oh well.

There's more, but suffice it to say that at this time, it is really a delicate balance of taming expectations, recognizing what phase the other person is in.

On the bright side, we have continued going to our retrouvaille post sessions. The last time we went, he even said we will join the CORE groups (consisting of retrouvaille graduates) so that we could continue our growth in our M. He also wants to volunteer to help in future weekends for other couples.

We have restarted praying together as a family, and I am also going to start on doing daily devotionals for the two of us.

Since I am having trouble with anger and resentment, I have decided to go back to DBing and trying to detach a bit while H continues with his struggles.

Right now, I have centered myself again and am trying to concentrate more on work.

I think we have a long way to go.....

[Cyrena]

Angel,

I felt the same hurt as you that my H was different with OW than he was with me, even after the MLC ended--he even composed 2 piano pieces for her! However, you have to remember that MLCers are essentially having a "redo" of their teenage years, making extravagant gestures and statements that they really wouldn't feel comfortable with when they're not running purely on their emotions. Research has shown that the teenaged brain is wired differently, and so is the brain of a depressed person.

So, just keep remembering that the OW he wrote to was only ever a fantasy, the soulmate he felt that he wanted at that point, but he never knew her in the way he knows you because he never really saw beyond his own needs. My H admitted, near the end of his OW obsession, that on some level he'd picked a person who lived in another city, etc, because he probably would have become bored with her if they were constantly together.

MLCers do spend like teenagers as well, and mine spent the most as he was in withdrawal from the OW. Keep an eye on his spending, if it continues as it has been, to make sure you're not going to be in financial difficulties down the road.

I'm glad you've continued with the Post sessions, and that your H is willing to help other couples--this is huge!

Meanwhile, though, do everything you can to keep your hurt and anger from spilling into your interactions with H. Do whatever you can to self-soothe and detoxify yourself from those negative emotions. And yes, detachment is required for Piecing, since your H has a lot of processing to do still and will not be available to be a real companion to you for some time yet.

Still, when you think about how far you still have to go--remember how far you've already come!

[angel61]

I/we have come a long way. I only have to think of last year, how much pain and hurt it was at this point, and I am thankful that I am here now.

Its true though, my H was never to me how he is with OW. I am looking at our pictures from before the bomb, and I am thinking that although we were quite happy then, I don't really recall us being romantic with each other. That was what caused a lot of friction in our M, actually, was that I demanded that he be affectionate to me physically, and it seemed like he just could not be so. And yet I can't say either that my H did not love me. He was one of the most caring husbands, my friends always told me how spoiled I am. I told myself at that time that he was not just the romantic type, and accepted it. He is also such a good father. As we piece, those aspects of him are coming back. Sometimes I do think he makes himself do stuff for me because he wants to restore the M, not because he is feeling it, but just knowing that he wants the restoration to continue is enough for me most of the time.

Somehow though, because I know now he has the capacity to be that way (romantic) with a woman, I cannot help but wish that some day he will be that way to me too. I feel that he still, for some reason, is denying his true feelings for me. Or maybe I still am doing things that are somehow pushing him away, preventing him from fully loving me.

Today, I brought up OW again. Darn, I couldn't help myself. I asked him if their company has rehired OW, and he said no, as they still don't need extra help for now. WE talked a little about them having any communication, he denies it, but honestly I do think they email, I then shared with him what OW's ex-boss said when I met him, letting him know that I never asked about OW but that he volunteered the info that OW was more interested in flying than in her post doc fellowship. H told me that OW wasn't really an academic person. Thats the first time I heard him say something negative about OW. Hey, I started to wonder if he is starting to face reality!

He got pissy though that I brought up OW. I told him that ultimately, I wanted us to be able to talk about this time in our lives without feeling the hurt or anger, and be able to look at it more as a life lesson. He said he still is trying to forget, and that it rocks his boat to talk about it. As you said, Cyrena, it does take time. I do wish though he was more of a cold turkey type of person, obviously, his selfish nature makes him more self protective.

This time is geting to be a more quiet, slow phase for me. It is a time for me to think about what do I really want/need in this M, and work for it. However, if he never becomes the husband that I need him to be, (romantic? physically affectionate? Verbally reassuring? ) and yet I know that he is a good person and takes care of our family, shows me love by taking care of me, will I be able to accept that? Will I really be able to love him unconditionally for the rest of our lives?

Oh well, I am rambling a bit here.... maybe I should just go and eat lunch now!

[Ctflor]

H and I have prayed together a few times for our M. How does it feel when you are praying together? The feeling is somewhat powerful, as if I can feel a light or protection.

[Cyrena]

I was wondering--is praying together something your husband suggested or which you requested, and whether he indicated that it had a positive or bonding impact on him?

That's good news, that OW has not been re-hired. About reaching a place where you two can talk about her "without hurt & anger," remember that those are the emotions which you feel--his will be shame, confusion, and also some happy memories of the intensity of what he felt (like good feelings about having enjoyed cigarettes even after quitting). That time will never mean the SAME thing to both of you, even though you will be able to look back on it without pain at some point.

If your H is doing nice things for you for the M instead of because he really feels them, at the moment, it is fine to "fake it until you make it." As for all the questions you're asking yourself, definitely think them all through because once he fully commits will be the time to start implementing the changes you need (as opposed to want).

[angel61]

With my H, I usually go by his actions rather than his words. WE had agreed to put God in the center of our lives at Retrouvaille. I know though that he would never be the one to lead, but if I did lead on something he doesn't want to do, he's either not going to participate or he would ask me to stop, like he did months before (prior to retro). I tried then to get him to pray with me, he said he preferred to pray by himself.


This time he does so wholeheartedy. I do feel like it has a great impact on him.

I guess it is shame that my H feels thats why he does not want to talk about OW. He also feels the pain still of OW rejection (I don't believe OW rejected him, I think she was doing a negative psychology approach but he took her words at face value, or else why would she have kept up contact and even be the one to re-establish it after they had agreed to cut off?) I don't have problems though with him interpreting it as such.

He said "I want to forget".

Good enough for me, given that he wants to work on making our M successful. He still is holding back though, thats how I feel.

[MynameisMZ]

Just wanted to drop by and say that I have felt the same way in regards to how my H was with ow. The jealousy I felt. Also, my H was so shamed by his A that he would too grow angry with talking about her. And yes, he did start to come out of the fog and see her for what she truly is. He is so deeply ashamed. We had a family incident not too long ago where an nephew was having a really hard tome of things and well, my H saw himself and it was really hard on him. I do think we learn a lot when we see our faults in others and realize it's just ourself with another face on.

[angel61]

Hi MZ,

I can see from your posts that in some ways we are similar, we don't let things stew too much before moving. Also, you do believe like me that the truth will set you free. That is why now in piecing I am working on being able to talk (and think) about our whole past sitch (not just OW but the whole thing) without it throwing us into a tailspin. True, there will be the anger, hurt, shame and pain, but everyday that passes seems to throw it further and further away.

Updating:

H and I have started reading the Love Dare and we are in Dare #1. It is about patience with each other and not responding negatively to one another. So far its been good, and we have brought up sensitive topics in the past 3 days without flaring up.

WE talked about OW and how they were both in a vulnerable place when they met, and how they sort of fell into this "taking each other's side against the world (or spouses)", as OW was just newly divorced from a physically abusive M, and H was miserable from my controlling and demanding nature. He explained to me how they never really had a physical relationship, no kisses or making out, and I did believe him. He explained to me how he no longer even misses her, and how he could look back objectively to what happened, and all I felt was a twinge of jealousy. We both agreed that things happen for a reason, and that what happened has taught us a lot of things.

WE even managed to laugh about ourselves; yesterday H was putting on the expensive jeans I bought him for Christmas, and he said "boy, I love this jeans. I'm glad I didn't return it when I was being emotional! " I responded by laughing at him and calling him drama king, he in turn teased me about being such a cry baby.

WE attended a talk about the 5LL's and found out that both of us have Quality time as the first, but whereas I rate physical touch highly, it is the lowest for him. No wonder his EA never became a PA! I overheard him talking to another couple, and he was saying that he felt that although it was up and down in our sitch, we were making a lot of progress and at least we knew where we are going! That is so positive as he never really talked about our sitch to other people before!

He will be traveling soon to OW's home country for work. He tells me not to worry, and I am already preparing myself for it. BUt really, all I could do is pray and hope that in between now and then, we will be cementing our relationship and bringing it closer and closer to being not only fully reconciled but more than that.

God has been good to me, and I credit Retrouvaille as well with helping us. I think that sometimes, we have to hear about reconciliation from others to believe in it.

I know it is far from over, I still have not heard any heartfelt ILY's from H, and he is still in denial on some issues. But its been going faster than I thought it will. Its gathering momentum, actually.

So my friends, don't ever give up, when I think of how I had to hold on literally to my seat to keep from going home and kicking out H from our house many months ago, and how many of you here told me to count to a hundred and not to do it, I am so thankful. Many times, 25 or Cyrena or Grace_O or Lorie told tell me to keep my cool.