Just got off a 23 minute convo with W, the first with no yelling, crying, or even arguing.
My son came down with a sore throat last night. I called to find out how he was doing and if he would be able to visit at all this weekend, or if I would just go there and play some games. We left it that we would decide tomorrow.
Then we talked about easter, and surprisingly even to myself that went well. She got an invite to her aunt's 2 hrs away on Easter itself. This is the first year since W's grandmother died and her aunt is trying to pull more people together, which I understand. Then she told me about her counsin's oldest boy developing alergies and being in and out of hospitals, then she told me about . . . .
I could give the details, but the point is she started telling me about things, and I managed to sound like an adult (though how do you NOT validate a 12 year old going to the hospital ?)
Baby steps.
M 42, W 40, S 11, D 9 Together 20 years, married 15 W Dropped Bomb 1/12/2012 I moved (kicked) out 1/27/2012
I'm working on the taxes, and I've spoken to W 3 times today for information, and it's killing me. She sounds -- normal now, like I was calling from work to check on something.
She asked if I was still going to the hospital, the first time shes mentioned anything to do with my mental state at all. Told her this was just the first week, and the program lasts 3-6 weeks.
M 42, W 40, S 11, D 9 Together 20 years, married 15 W Dropped Bomb 1/12/2012 I moved (kicked) out 1/27/2012
It's been three months since I've been back here, and I wanted to post an update. I spent 5 weeks in the partial hospital program, then transitioned to an intensive DBT (Dialectical behavior therapy) program. This is also 9:00AM to 2:45PM, weekdays. It has been incredibly helpful, a completely eye-opening experience. However it is very draining, and I haven't felt much like posting since starting it.
In terms of DBing I think I've done a lot of things wrong, but that I needed for myself at the time. From her side there was a push to meet with her and her lawyer, something I just did not think I could do. Frankly I couldn't even understand the concept of me meeting with HER lawyer, without one of my own. When I finally got my act together and got a lawyer, he describe what they were suggesting as "unethical".
I'll try to compose more details, later.
M 42, W 40, S 11, D 9 Together 20 years, married 15 W Dropped Bomb 1/12/2012 I moved (kicked) out 1/27/2012
Since I gathered this up for my lawyer, here is a log of the communication I had with W.'s lawyer, and her. It's not all, some was texts and some was on the phone. So basicly I was spending days at a mental hospital, trying to figure out what to do about the insistance that we had to have a meeting right away or it would get expensive.
I must appologize for the delay in getting back to you, due to a hospitalization the nature of with I assume W. has described to you. Since then I have been on a full day program at the hospital.
At this time I do not have a a lawyer.
I would like to be able to finish the hospital program, to be in a better place to proceed. I understand however this may not be possible due to my delay.
Thank you for your response. As you know, I represent W., so please be mindful of that fact. I am sorry for your current difficulty and wish you all the best. I believe the best way to proceed is for me to begin the process by filing the court papers. I will then send them to you, but will take no further action. I think we should then sit down and discuss the issues and see what we can agree upon. If we can agree on the issues, we then just do an uncontested divorce. This is quick, inexpensive and relatively stress free. If we cannot agree on the issue, then the case will have to proceed to court and be litigated so the court can decide for us the issues upon which we do not agree. At some point,you will need to have a lawyer review everything for you to advise you what is best for you. For now, I will commence the process and then we should talk. Please contact me when you fell you are ready to talk.
I wanted to check in as it has been a few weeks. I have not received any papers, and while I am certainly in no rush, I did not want to cause any problems if I had missed something.
I am still on the full day program at the hospital. We are currently in the process of deciding what the next phase of treatment will be. In the mean time I am working as much as possible to provide for my family.
I am painfully aware of W.'s concerns and am doing my best to work with them while concentrating on getting myself well. If there is anything else I can be doing in the mean time, please let me know.
The papers will be dropped off at your address. Nothing for you to do. Just e-mail me when you get them I will not default you or take any action without letting you know about it.we'll talk soon.
To be plain, I realize that people are afraid of what I may do, and have no reason to believe what I say (and that you work for W.). I fear that any offers I have made (I mean simple things, like picking dates to see the children, offering to mow the lawn, etc) are being misconstrued.
If there are any concerns W. has that I can accomodate in this period, I am open to hearing them. Perhaps there are things she would be more comfortable with if they came through you.
Date: Wednesday, May 02, 2012 8:47 PM From: NahorHavoc To: Lawyer
W. is texting me that you want a meeting next week. I have not received any papers as of yet.
What are you expecting to cover at a meeting at this point ?
Date: Thu, 3 May 2012 14:04:00 -0400 From: Lawyer To: MajorHavoc
My hope is to accomplish one thing. The goal of the meeting is to discuss if it will be possible that we can resolve the issues of the case amicably, without the delay, expense and angst of litigation. We need to figure this out immediately. If we can do it amicably, then we just draft an agreement that provides everyone with the "rules of the road" going forward. If you can both agree on the issue and terms of the eventual divorce, then it is relatively quick and inexpensive. If we cannot come to an agreement, then we will need to let the Court know that we cannot do it on our own and the court will place the case on it's docket and then the Court decides all of the issues. So this meeting is just to have a brief discussion to see if we can work out the issues on our own . I am not going to pressure any party into anything, either way. That is what the court is for. We just need to figure out where we all go from here. Let me know if the two of you are available to meet and when.
< --- At this point I sent an email that I had received the papers -->
Date: Thu, 10 May 2012 16:39:17 -0400 From: Lawyer To: MajorHavoc Cc: W.
Thank you for responding. As I previously explained,you must now follow the instructions on the Summons . If you wish, I am willing to meet to attempt to resolve the issues if you feel this will be productive. If not, then I think you should just take the Summons to your attorney and then we can talk. You have 20 days to answer, however,if you choose to meet and talk,I will stop the clock and not proceed until after the meeting, but if you schedule a meeting and do not show up, then I will proceed accordingly.Please advise me of what you wish to do.
<-- So I go to program a few more days, and start to think that trying to meet all on my own isn't a good idea, but in talking with my wife she hammers that it has to happen "Or this will get expensive". I sent the following: --- >
Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 08:26:38 -0400 (EDT) From: MajorHavoc To: Lawyer
W. and I spoke yesterday about my concerns about meeting. She suggested I call you today. Will you be in the office this afternoon ?
The impression I get is that it's either I go into a meeting all alone, or it's a court fight. I am not looking for a fight, but at the same time I am not confident yet in my ability to do any sort of negotiation on my own.
Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 14:53:21 -0400 From: Lawyer To: MajorHavoc Cc: W.
Dear Major Havoc:
Thank you for your e-mail. My e-mails were very clear. I was simply trying to avoid the expense of protracted litigation and seeing what areas we could agree upon. If we could agree than I would draft an Agreement which you would have your attorney review. No one implied that you would not have a lawyer, it's just that we would come up with an agreement , and then your lawyer would review it. It is apparent to me that you need a lawyer to get involved to represent you sooner rather than later. Therefore, please have your lawyer contact me. This will be my last correspondence to you. Do not contact me again. Going forward, I will only speak with your attorney. If you do not retain an attorney, I will proceed accordingly. I am not being rude or strident, but you really need to have a lawyer act on your behalf as it is clear to me that you do not wish to proceed in this case as an uncontested matter.have your lawyer contact me.
<--- I Freak out and send a message I don't seem to have a copy of, but is quoted below:
Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 16:52:14 -0400 (EDT) From: W. To: MajorHavoc
Major Havoc wrote: > Saying "I don't want a fight" means I don't want to proceede uncontested ? I > don't even know what uncontested means ? Besides it's been made clear I > can't say no, what choice do I even have ? I just don't want to walk into > his office and make a fool of myself. That means I want to contest it ?
What I believe he is saying is that you are playing a delay game and pretending you don't understand what is being asked of you. I will explain, again, what should have happened.
1) You, Lawyer and myself walk into his office and sit down.
2) Lawyer explains, again, the laws of a divorce in NYS now that it has become no fault.
3) Lawyer will show you what the boiler plate of a divorce in NYS now looks like.
4) We go over what is standard procedure with this boiler plate
5) We then discuss calmly, what five points that are most important are.
6) We then try to figure out what is the most fair and reasonable dividing of assets, etc....
7) Once agreed upon, you take the agreement to a lawyer of your choice and have him/her review it to be sure you are protected.
8) When that is done all parties sign off on it.
> > I don't understand. >
You have a mental block against this whole thing, that's why you do not understand.
> Sorry, I'm in therapy mode. > Ok...hope this clears things up.
PS----Uncontested----adjective---unchallenged
Webster's Third New International Dictionary
Date: Wed, 16 May 2012 08:36:49 -0400 (EDT) From: MajorHavoc To: W.
Thank you. I realize you were being mostly sarcastic, but you have helped me a great deal.
> I will explain, again, what should have happened.
I've been taught over and over the last weeks that "should" statements lead to anxiety and depression. I should ( ha ha ) have recognized this. This is what you wanted to happen. And when you come down to it, he is right, it is not what I want. That doesn't mean what I want is litigation.
What I want is to be able to concentrate on my program. By buying into this idea that I "should" do something I couldn't do, I set myself up to fail.
The textbook replacement thought is " It would be nice if I could do this, but at this point in my recovery I am unable to."
I would have been better off handing this all to a lawyer weeks ago so I could concentrate on what I needed to do, rather than trying to do what I thought I "should" do. Thank you for helping me realize this.
I fear you're going to think this is all more manipulation. I can't do anything about that. This is what the program I am in is working to teach. I'm not close to fully accepting this mindset yet. I still feel I "should" be able to do this, to make it easier for everyone.
I've had to reconvince my self three times since last night, that things are the way they are, that I can do what I can do. But when I do, I find some temporary peace.
Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 23:03:28 -0400 (EDT) From: W. To: MajorHavoc
I am writing as a follow up to all this. Believe it or not in my last message to you I was not trying to be sarcastic. Unfortunately, we have come to a time limit situation here.
1) Do you have a lawyer?
2) Will you and the lawyer (or just the lawyer if need be) contact Lawyer this week?
3) The reason for it being this week is that your 20 day allowance for responding to the summons is up on Sunday, the 27th---this weekend.
4) Neither one of us wants litigation---it is a horrible and unbelievably expensive thing to go through for no reason.
5) If your lawyer calls and sets up an appt. this week we *do not* have to go to litigation. We can meet together and try to work this out.
6) If not we must go to court and a judge decides ultimately what decisions must be made for us---which is a horrid way to go.
Let me know if there are any further questions.
<-- I get the previous email on my phone just before going to bed. I fire back a quick "Don't worry, I have no intention of defaulting". 3 weeks later I can finally send the below: --- >
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2012 22:33:46 -0400 (EDT) From: MajorHavoc To: W.
Believe it or not, it has taken me this long to be able to answer this. And after three weeks, this is all I have to say.
When I read this, I felt invalidated. Then I felt shamed for feeling that way. I now know what that word means, and how I must have made you feel over and over.
I answered quickly that night in bed from my phone intending to answer the next morning, but couldn't. This email put me into a week long depression.
I finally talked to (a friend) that week. He said I should tell you to refer all future communication about divroce to my lawyer. I dont' want to do that, but maybe that's the best answer
By now you must know what my answer to those questions below is. You won't accept it. You ignore it, so I've stopped saying it, but my answer hasn't changed. At least not yet.
By now you've gotten the response boilerplate papers. Past that I have no plans, other than going to the hospital, attending program, and trying to get better.
Like every other answer I've started, I'm afraid this will just piss you off, because you won't believe it. But after 3 weeks it's still the truth, and the best answer I can give you. If something else needs to be done then it's probably best Lawyer just contact My Lawyer directly.
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 17:37:23 -0400 (EDT) From: MajorHavoc To: W.
I've second guessed myself on this mail all day. It occurs to me it could be seen as invalidating itself. If so I'm sorry.
M 42, W 40, S 11, D 9 Together 20 years, married 15 W Dropped Bomb 1/12/2012 I moved (kicked) out 1/27/2012
