OMG....THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR ALL YOUR INPUT AND INSIGHTS! Thank you, thank you, thank you!
I swear I just don't know what I'd do without you guys!
Wendy: Girl, I think we're about the same in regards to how many relationship books we're read and owned. Guess what I realized? Not a one of them really ever tackled the true issues I've had in my marriage, UNTIL I FOUND THIS SITE. I think it's fair and honest to say that all our marriages are COMPLICATED with several big issues at hand and active at all times. And another thing I did learn. I could read, learn and grow so much as a person, but when your spouse isn't willing to meet you half way, well you're going nowhere really fast!
Snodderly: I appreciate you reminding me of what really is, and reminding me I can't do it all, like READ MINDS. I never stopped to look at the obvious, which is that a person would feel all alone and abandoned if they choose to stay trapped in their own misery and not reach out and try to resolve things.
AJM: Acceptance, oh yes. This is a challenge for me, but also the last step in grieving. As we know grief/loss never follows suit in chronological order, hell no! WE've gotta go all over the place, like I've been with emotions in regards to this. However I do know I do truly accept things when I really start to understand and grasp the situation. When I start to understand the "why's" or the "how's" of it all, then it clicks into place, and then acceptance is smooth for me.
T^2: Hey guy thank you so much for your input and your feelings from your personal sitch. I have a glimpse into what he was thinking, and now have a grasp of perhaps where we are now, and where we could've been. Because of that, well all of this is really helping me to be very acceptant of this all now.
No H always refused counseling. I asked him to go several times through the years. He always poo-pooed it. One of the last times I suggested him reading Dr. Phil's relationship rescue with me and he got IRATE with me about it. I love Dr. Phil's direct approach to realtionships and no nonsense and realistic strategies to overcome some really tough stuff in relationships.
But our relationship problems aside, I think what really gave me a red flag was how he didn't want to go to counseling only after 3 sessions after he got shot. The counselor said he was doing so well, that if he felt comfortable not coming it was ok. H did ok, for a while, but boy did things change about 6 months later down the road. I was so worried about what he was going to do with that anger. He gamed all day and night and gained 50 pounds. Then he became angry, and who was his target? Me, the kids, and the animals. AND THIS IS 15 YEARS POST ONLINE CYBER AFFAIRS ON MY PART, so Im thinking what's going on here is the PTSD is triggering all SORTS of stuffed anger and resentment. He even started criticizing his mom over things when he was 13 years old. He even started giving me guilt trips over things I said 20 years ago.
Hmmm.. it's all starting to add up now.
And I feel myself breathing in a fresh breath of air and feeling relief and understanding.
And I now am starting to feel acceptance....because I now have a different perspective and understanding.
I think I just might be moving towards forgiveness now.
What comes after forgivness? Trust?
Thank you so much you guys..... from the bottom of my heart, I can't thank you enough for your help!
I was so worried about what he was going to do with that anger. He gamed all day and night and gained 50 pounds. Then he became angry, and who was his target? Me, the kids, and the animals. AND THIS IS 15 YEARS POST ONLINE CYBER AFFAIRS ON MY PART, so Im thinking what's going on here is the PTSD is triggering all SORTS of stuffed anger and resentment. He even started criticizing his mom over things when he was 13 years old. He even started giving me guilt trips over things I said 20 years ago.
Understanding is priceless...my W is doing the same things...some people seem to be reluctant to process and LET GO of things from the past, they never seem to do the work, reach acceptance and move on...until MLC when it just HAS to be let out somehow...we wish they could do it in a different way, don't we? You, like me, are a fixer...accept that we can't fix them...it is their problem to figure it out and get needed help from counselors, etc. (I remind myself of this EVERY DAY!)
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What comes after forgivness? Trust?
Maybe, if they get themselves resolved.
Eventually, if reconciliation happens, we will have to risk trust again. But we are stronger because of this ordeal, so we can risk trusting again, because we have done the WORK to be ourselves...better, stronger people. For example, how would a Bomb Drop affect you today, verses when it happened? Much differently, I imagine....
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When I start to understand the "why's" or the "how's" of it all, then it clicks into place, and then acceptance is smooth for me.
You sound like me....say, have any plans next weekend?
T^2
In the depths of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer. - Albert Camus
Uncertainty is the very condition which impels people to unfold their powers.-Eric Fromm
You know I dont think fixers like us are bad people, it just depends on how we go about it. I guess what's so hard is when we see something that needs "repair" and we're willing to do whatever we can, but our help is NOT WANTED, as in our marriages. How sad when one loves enough to keep trying, growing, and learning, yet the other feels they gotta bolt and run. It truly is TOUGH LOVE, yet loving maturely enough to let them go. It physically hurts, it hurts so much. But do unto others as you would have done to you, so let go.
How would a bomb drop affect me today? Well of course hind sight being 20/20, and all that I've learned here, and still do, gee, I think I could almost do it with one hand tied behind my back!My goal ever since this started was to learn enough and come out the other side well enough that I could really help someone else that's going through the same thing I had/am going through.
Im very scared to trust H again. That part of the reason Im flipping out left and right over his very positive and consistent change. He seems just different. I guess what rattles my cage is that he appears to want to establish some sort of better relationship with me, maybe even a friendship again. I question if he's doing this because he's engaged to OW? Giving me spousal support and being extra nice in fear I would become very vindictive? This is me really just waiting for another BD or shoe to drop. This is me being so afraid to trust anything positive again, given this is the 3rd time he's left and broke my heart in the last 4 years.
I realize that if there ever were to be a reconcilliation that this would be the first step to take learning to trust and have a friendship again. But right now, Im not sure I would even want one, or even a friendship with him. I realize we're parents and we need to have some sort of good communication in regards to the kids and their affairs. But anything else....what's the point? I know he and I view friendship very differently. I know he said he did miss the friendship after he'd been gone a month or two, but "as for what married people are supposed to feel, I feel empty".
Well, for me, if ya still got a good friendship, you still got a good foundation for rebuilding that connection and making the marriage better than before! Heck I think it would be fun...but then again if they won't meet ya half way....you're going no where.
LOL...Hey T, well this weekend Im watching my niece and hoping it doesn't rain. If you're in my neck of the woods, let me know!
Funny how when we see some of the changes we have been looking/waiting for the perimeter warning starts up again, isn't it?
I hear you, afraid that this is a prelude to yet another hurt, mind-job or "whatever" not positive....and they have come up with some unique "whatevers", haven't they? I guess give them an "A" for creativity and effort, no?
T^2
In the depths of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer. - Albert Camus
Uncertainty is the very condition which impels people to unfold their powers.-Eric Fromm
Kimmerz, How do you handle your ex being engaged? Mine is also, and it appears to be more of a show than the real thing.
Me: 46 H:44 Together: 25 years Married: 20 years Separated: 11-30-06 Divorced 12-21-07 OW: EA began 2005 PA began end of 2006 3 children,20, 16, 6 ex asked for forgiveness 01/16/11
There is no confirmation that my stbx is engaged to OW. When I made that statement, I was coming from the perspective of "what if" he is engaged to her and is planning on telling me or announcing it after the divorce is final.
How long has your Xh been engaged Trusting?
Yes T^2, I was amazed how my "red alert" alarm starting blaring full steam ahead when the changes I've been praying for and wanting to see have come to pass.
I feel like such an idiot for wanting and praying for this and when it finally comes to pass, Im scared out of my witts. There's always such a hidden lesson deep within a person getting what they really wish for. Like they say be careful what you wish for, you might just get it!
See in my mind I figured positive changes would mean he would have positive changes within himself, and therefore there would be the oppurtunity to really resolve some issues between us. I think had this grandiose, dramatic, and romantic reconcilliation fantasy cooked up in my head, and that everything would fall into place with a big BANG between us, and all would be well. Truthfully, when we reconcilled the last two times, it was a little dramatic.
But ya know what? I now really feel that he's been having interrupted MLC on and off for 4 years. As I look back, and how much I've learned now, he didn't do any work on himself the last two times he left. It was more like " Ok Im over my anger now, can I come back home?" AS for now....I will only know if he and I ever get a chance to really talk about stuff. Right now, I think Im too chicken to go there with him, if he was wanting to do that. Right now Im not sure if that's what he's wanting to do or what's going on with him. Quite frankly Im getting so tired of this MLC stuff I don't care!
I am not really sure how long they have been engaged. He never told me, just the kids. If I had to guess it would be about a year and a half. I just know that he gets angry at OW when she pressures him into the actual marriage. The kids say he looks like he is going to vomit when they have that conversation, but who knows. My ex is still very irrational.
Me: 46 H:44 Together: 25 years Married: 20 years Separated: 11-30-06 Divorced 12-21-07 OW: EA began 2005 PA began end of 2006 3 children,20, 16, 6 ex asked for forgiveness 01/16/11
WEll stbx still continues to be consistent with positive actions. I had made the choice to go a little dim in order to help myself with detatchment so I can get a grip on my own confusion about things. It surely helps me to get different perspectives, but sorting my feelings out about stbx still remains a struggle. I wish I could just be indifferent.
H promptly informed me of his work schedule, 5 days ahead of time instead of 24 hours ahead of time like last week. This was very nice, for it gives me and the kids a mental preparation time of when they'll be gone. I didn't respond. He then text me two times that D12 was staying home sick from school last friday. I knew this of course because D12 had informed me that morning she wasn't feeling well. I still didn't respond.
Later that day I did have to text stbx about a new change in my work schedule next month. I normally work a day shift but will have to work a PM shift 2 days a week for 2-3 weeks starting mid April. I told him I wanted to let him know incase he wanted to try and re arrange his schedule to help out with the girls, but if he didn't I would manage.
What I really expected to hear was that he couldn't change his schedule and the girls were just going to have to stay with OW..alone at his place, or I find other arrangments for the girls. Blow me away stbx texts me back and says he will work on getting certain hours during those days or get those days off so he can be there for the girls since I have to work.
Guys... I gotta let my guard down and say that he has gone above and beyond what I didn't think even existed in his heart anymore. Believe me, I don't get impressed easily, and as of now Im starting to feel a little impressed by stbx. What Im beginning to wonder is if he's seen the damage caused and he's trying hard to repair what ever is repairable? Or does he like feeling like top dog in his own house and this one too?
What stood out to me is that he seems to truly understand and respect the girls feelings in regards to OW now, even though he's still with her. He focuses on the girls when they're with him and OW stands back and doesn't interfere.
I think what's actually wigging me out is that he seems like he's starting to speak my love language a bit. My main love language is words of affirmation and acts of service. I think his are acts of service and quality time. He's been great at communicating if it's just about the kids for now. He actually paid me a compliment at the hospital last month and told D9 she should be thankful to mamma for sleeping on a cot all night next to her. I guess he told D9 Friday about a funny joke he pulled on me the first year we were married. D9 told me about it when I picked her up from school. Plus all the offers to help with the kids are a serious act of service for me given I've been doing it by myself for years!
I can tell you that I fell in love with my husband all over again, more than once when i saw the love he had for his children, and the joy he had from father hood. For about 5 years he had no problem helping out with the girls. He had no problem helping out with things around the house, and he had no problem taking on the kids alone so I could get a break. He used to compliment me to the kids or just to compliment me.He was a man in love with his wife and children. Nothing sexier than your husband to say " you take a nap, I'll get dinner". Talk about a panty dropper!!!
What the hell happened after that......WEll hindsight being 20/20...me getting busy with daycare in the home and being side tracked with other things, his gaming a priority, and ENTER OW THAT WORSHIPS HIM AND GAMES AS WELL.
So here is stbx, going the extra mile now to make contact and keep the communication open about the kids, visits, their well being, things going on with them, funny things they do or say, etc. and being kind and friendly about it, even joking at times. At times when we text, he seems so eager to talk about the kids or tell me what's going on. I make a point of thanking him often. Lately I feel like he's almost eager to please me? 3 months ago he refused to speak to me and the kids were the messenger. Wow what a change.
He's going above and beyond and offering random acts of kindness that are even blowing me away. To offer to drive our D9 to her MD appointment 4 hours away just to spare me the stress of driving in the city about floored me.
The funny thing is he was offering these acts of kindess when he first left, which is what confused me so bad. He started speaking my love language with one foot out the door and of course as he sat on the fence eating cake.
I don't know guys, it's still so hard and I hate these multitudes of emotions I have towards this man. I still care about him alot, and still love him. I still miss things about him and still have many good memories. It wasn't all bad. I want to move on and not focus on the bad stuff anymore. At the same time accepting the fact that to have any relationship with him is only a partial relationship of what I really want kills me.
I guess this is where I have to work on Acceptance of what is and what I want. And I think what I need and want is just a business type of relationship with him if there is not going to be any hope of a reconcilliation between us. Apparently he's fine with being the best of friends while he's with another woman because according to him all he's felt like are friends for years any way. I guess what hurts the most is that I didn't feel that way. I considered us married. He was my husband and I was his wife. I don't do this friendship business, either we're married or we're divorced, no in between.
As I look back on everything almost a year ago, I think I can see what his intentions were. He really did want to go on and do his own thing, but I think he wanted to leave the door open, but open ON HIS TERMS ONLY. His actions spoke to me that my heart ache or the childrens heart ache didn't matter, though he did feel some sort of guilt for inflicting it. He would be my friend, but on his terms only, which was he was willing to do acts of service for me, while he was still nailing the OW.
Seriously....for real? How on earth can these MLCers sit there and see we are in so much heart ache, yet they keep hanging around giving us hope or mixed messages? And then when we call them on it, we get spew?
I am not as articulate as you. But I keep coming back to the Chaos and Triangulation theory. Google it, it stopped me in my tracks. And I don't want to play games amymore. Or be played games with.
I am happy to hear you are getting nicer treatment. Maybe they are just so confused they don't see what they are doing to us?
Kimmerz, you seem like an amazing person. You face the reality of how the situation got where it is. I admire that!
I am feeling blah right now. I hope all is well with you right now.
Me 57 XH 58 Sons age 32 & 27 M:32 D final 9/12 Bought 10 Acres and Living the Dream!
