Interesting read. I could have written all of that same stuff except it's ex-wife vs ex-husband. That always interests me because it seems that gender is not much of a dividing line. The stereotype is that it is.
As one of a pair of single parents, it is hard. The craziness used to bother me more too, but I see things very differently now.
Good for you for choosing to remember the good times. They were real! And good for you for gaining a more objective perspective of the past 7 years. That's really hard to do when you are being blamed for everything by somebody you once trusted implicitly for a very long time.
You also noticed patterns. Be careful though. All bets are off when it comes to regularity, so even though you saw the patterns, be prepared for them to change in any direction. Nothing is to be taken for granted.
I was reminded of that the other day. Ex was acting friendly when asking for time with my son for Easter. That led to her saying she wanted to put him in a camp over summer. I asked a few questions and she replied with an email that she was glad I brought something up I never even mentioned. She used that to then rant and complain. It reminded me that patterns are not always consistent with an MLCr. It reminded me there can and often is an ulterior motive when dealing with them.
Mine may be a hard case that never comes out. But even without looking I see changes and new personalities just like before. I see the perspective like you do and try really hard to remember that this is not somebody I know nor want to know.
Be good and be cautious, K.
AJ
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK Put the glass down... "Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
Hi AJM, I went back and read through your very first posts. I like to do that and see how everything starts with other people. And I can see that it starts out the same for all of us! I care about you, but not in love with you, and haven't loved for years! Then the blame for misery follows suit. Damn.
I noticed you said your Ex was hyper aware of things in your first post.
I was curious, why do you think they go through hyper aware modes, or maybe hyber nostalgic?
I noticed my Ex going through hyper aware mode, and still does I think. All the sudden someone that couldn't remember what I told him 2 days before remembered every last detail in this house, where things were, when it was purchased, things we did 18 years before....it was weird! Heck a month ago he was asking me what hotel we stayed at 12 years ago when we were out of town for a weekend.
I find that odd...the hyper aware/memory/nostalgic.
Does it seem so odd? I think pressure is what causes that. Fear causes pressure. There seems to be a lot of fear in my ex. Fear of what? I don't know, I gave up trying to get in that crazy head a long time ago But even in my professional dealings with people, fear seems to be a powerful motivator. I notice it when somebody doesn't act rationally or gets unnecessarily worked about something. I sense fear in many cases. Then hurt. Then anger.
I think fear heightens the senses. I think when they are not feeling anything toward us, but think they should, they go looking for reasons why. Like everyone, they need a "story" they can live with. Enter the lies. Enter the replaying their life in huge and exacting detail.
Fear is a terrible thing and it's not how we are made. It has its place, but when it gets out of balance all hell breaks loose!
Stress, fear, anger - they seem to go together like a cocktail and the result is a hyper-awareness of things past and present.
In some cases it seems the need for a "story" is so strong, they will re-remember the past in a different way. People can do that. The mind is a powerful thing and it never forgets. It records everything even if we cannot recall it.
Focus plays a part as well. Focus on their part to solve their problem.
On my end, I became very aware of things as well. Stress. Fear. Anger. Same cocktail, but handled differently.
I think the WAS also has to remember things again and again to try and get it right. It's not enough that they re-remember because those memories have feelings associated. If you don't handle the feelings, they'll handle you. If you re-remember something, it won't be dealt with and it will have to be at some point either consciously or sub-consciously.
It's why I always choose to live in the light. I don't hide things. I communicate what I feel and I do it in a way that I think about it first because I'm not willing to damage others on a whim. I will tell it how it is, but not always right away. I guard my tongue
My thoughts and observations at any rate. I'm not a professional. AJ
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK Put the glass down... "Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
I've been thinking about what you posted ^^^^. This is very interesting and very spot on, especially if you don't handle the feelings, they will handle you.
Im applying this to myself and how I recall our past, any issues we were having at the time, how I was feeling, and WHY I was feeling it ,THERFORE this is why I chose to act the way I did, or didn't. Then in conclusion, what could I do now(or then) that would've been a better way to handle my feelings or situation? What do I need to do to be true to myself?
Right now my feelings are handling me and Im struggling in how to handle them. All I know is to sort them out and figure out how to deal with them the best way I can. right now Im in hyper - protect myself mode.
So Im journaling, venting, and exploring here. This is lengthy, but I got where I needed to be!:
I have to admit this. I am very disturbed at stbx being so kind to me. It makes me angry. His actions speak to me that he's eager to help me in anyway with the kids and work with me together in whatever we need to do for the kids. He told me months ago that he never changed how he felt about his role in wanting to raise them. Of course his actions were a total 180 in my opinion in how he handled shoving the OW down their throats.
I am so angry with myself that I can't see the silver lining in this. I can always see the positive side of things in every situation, but when it comes to this ONE THING, THIS ONE MARRIAGE, THIS ONE RELATIONSHIP, I am completely OPPOSITE of how my outlooks are in life most of the time. That pisses me off.
So I've been grinding on this as I cooked breakfast and I think I am now really starting to understand why Im so full of frustration, anger, and resentment, especially towards stbx. Wow, when I have a lightbulb moment, I have them! Then I stand back and say to myself " well gee what took you so long to figure that out?"
So what this boils down to is me, and how I've allowed my emotions to handle me, but it was also about me NOT KNOWING any better. This is a HUGE button being pushed inside of me, but stbx seems to be the one that's pushing it consistently. So therefore I place all the anger and resentment towards him. Well guess what, I now know it's not his fault. This is my broken button that I must learn to fix because it's been pushed many times by others, he's just the one that seems to have his finger on it all the time.
Here's my button: As I look back I realize this goes back to my childhood. I had a very co dependent relationship with my mother. Though my mother and I were the best of friends and very close, I had a co depdenent relationship with her. She was also verbally abusive to me for many years, when she was binge drinking. The biggest and most deepest issues I came away with from my bond with my mother is that #1. I am responsible for people's happiness. #2. My feelings don't always matter. #3. Real important issues, or very heavy issues don't get dealt with and get swept under the carpet.
What I've learned, is these issues you think are gone forever, never really are. They come back to be dealt with in one way or another.
And that is what I've taken into my marriage, and I also know that my stbx has/had the exact same issues from his alcoholic mother. I felt responsible for his feelings, yet my feelings don't always matter, and any issues we have will just be swept under the carpet. I swear that man and I mirror eachother more and more as I see our "forest for the trees" in our life together. Amazing. It must be true we choose our lives and people in them to each us lessons before we incarnate. Our soul mates can be the ones that teach us the biggest lessons. Damn, no wonder I feel so bound to the man.
So here I am beating myself up that I wasn't perfect and made him so unhappy he has to leave me for all the horrible reasons he's left me (ok I know better than this now, but this is how I still feel at times)and even though Im so heartbroken, my feelings don't matter and did they ever matter? WE have alot of issues we never addressed and swept it under the carpet, and now look where we're at?
So each time he's being so nice and eager to work with me about the kids my button of " we just had major issues, BUT LETS NOT LOOK AT THEM" gets pushed. Each time he acts and sounds like my long lost buddy that I've known half my life the "you've been horribly hurt, but your feelings dont matter" button gets pushed. And in the past when just breathing on my part threw him into spew mode the "Im responsible for your feelings" button got pushed in me.
So now I see that no level to detatchment can avoid personal hot buttons getting pushed. If they are our there, they are going to get pushed some way or another by anyone.
Now that I have that dived to the abyss, got my pearl and have resurface, what do I do now? Hmmmm must think on it some more. I do feel much better figuring this out. Much of the anger and resentment just started to melt away as I worked through this. I think the best thing I could do to be true to myself is to put boundaries up with stbx and explain to him why Im uncomfortable with how he is acting, and to ask him to please back off. This might confuse him, because I've been returning the friendly back, given it's my nature. But it's felt so awful wrong for so long, and now I've finally figured out what was bothering me so much about it all. A seriously broken button has been getting pushed without malicious intent on his part. So I guess I need to basically request I be "shut down for repair" and get my button fixed.
Behind anger lies one or more of these 3 things, fear, hurt, or frustration. I believe all of them are present in the ML'er. When my ex's mother died, he started to become very fearful of other's abandoning him. He saw me having a good life and getting ahead in my career. I think he felt it was just a matter of time before I left like his mother. His mother also left him at the age of 12 and moved to another state to live. They never appropriately learned how to deal with these emotions, thus the regression into another world. That is my theory on my sitch and perhaps others. The reason my ex is so angry with me all of the time is his perceived abandonment by me. I do stress the word perceived. His fantasy of me worshipping the ground he walked on 24 hours a day did not happen, thus justifying his anger.
Me: 46 H:44 Together: 25 years Married: 20 years Separated: 11-30-06 Divorced 12-21-07 OW: EA began 2005 PA began end of 2006 3 children,20, 16, 6 ex asked for forgiveness 01/16/11
Hi Everyone, I've been thinking alot and I'd like some input and opinions on something.
As you know next Sunday is Easter. I've decided to have a special Easter Egg hunt here for my girls instead of going to the town Easter Egg hunt. This is for my D9 that's still going to be in crutches and a wheelchair for at least another month. Doing the town Egg Hunt would be dangerous on crutches. So we'll just do our own at home!
What Im really wondering is if I should invite stbx to our home to watch the girls on their hunt. After really examining my issue with him and the buttons that Im allowing him to push on me, I feel relieved and alot of frustration let go. I also have alot of questions and I feel they won't ever get answered if I don't make at least some small effort to be a little more friendly with him. At the same time I wonder, is he just trying to play Mr. Nice Guy again? Is this just for show?
Then other things burning in my mind. I don't recall the PA/mental/emotional abuse really becoming strong until he started going into MLC, which I now think started 6 years ago, but was interrupted. What Im wondering is if the PA/emotional abuse was shoved into overdrive because the MLC, or is this who he truly is now?
Im confused by his behavior going from Mr, Nice Guy, to Mr Nasty Man, to Mr Nice guy again. Because he's been Mr. Nice Guy again consistently, Im very curious how he would react if I were to cautiously invite him "in" again. Zero expectations of course.
It's for the kids...invite him regardless...it is the right thing to do, imho.
Quote:
PA/mental/emotional abuse really becoming strong until he started going into MLC, which I now think started 6 years ago, but was interrupted. What Im wondering is if the PA/emotional abuse was shoved into overdrive because the MLC, or is this who he truly is now?
I have been ruminating on this exact same issue all weekend regarding W...if I look back I can see some low level tendencies for HPD/BPD...but that has been turned up to "11" since mlc...
I have been asking myself a lot of hard questions if this behavior doesn't subside...heck, I am already fatigued, as are you...I hope your stbx is coming out of that behavior, for everyone's sake.
But we can't trust them now, can we? We know this.
Invite him, observe him like an anthropologist, make notes, repeat until you feel comfortable that your observations reflect a new reality...zero expects...of course...
T^2
In the depths of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer. - Albert Camus
Uncertainty is the very condition which impels people to unfold their powers.-Eric Fromm
Oh you guys are good! I can always depend on you to urge me to think! Thank you!
I will weigh that heavily.
Why do I want to check the temperature on him?
And T^2...Im freaking exhausted already! Is it necessary I trust him?
I think part of it is that I feel myself starting to move on, but I keep looking back of course. Im the kind of person that never leaves a loved on behind. Maybe Im afraid to really let him go for good until I know for SURE it's really over. Maybe it's really not over for him, but it would be really over for me this time. Maybe it's me still looking for closure.
It still just floors me that someone could be such a S*** to someone and not even apologize, yet act like nothing ever happened.
I will still think about this, but my gut is telling me to just LET HIM GO, it is time and I think Im finally ready. This has exhausted my soul...Im suprised I have one left after all of this.
I've been working on closure this weekend, as well...
I too believe that you never leave a loved one... family... behind...
As much as I want to temp check... I know in my heart of hearts... if my W has anything to say, she will say it... she needs to say it... openly... willingly... honestly... and without prompting...
otherwise, it is not sincere and genuine...
I can remain open to that possibility until a time when I may reach a bridge where that possibility no longer is available...
I do not have to lock any doors... but I do need to move forward... with no regrets... that I tried everything I could...
I know I have tried everything I can, without it being manipulation...
