Parenting with an MLCer (and other things ) Part 2

[job]

Kimmerze,
You may never get the entire truth from him. Why? Because even he doesn't really know at this time why he's so screwed up and w/the ow.

Getting his love tank filled by the ow has nothing to do w/him being kind and friendly towards you. There are quite a few out there that are totally alone and haven't hooked up w/someone else and have exhibited the same flip flop behavior. A lot of of what happens w/him emotionally is his environment. If something sets him off prior to him seeing or speaking to you, you will be the one to get the spew, etc. Understand this...the ow is nothing more than a "fxck buddy". That person is feeding him a bunch of bs all of the time and I can venture to say that the dew is not off of that rose yet, i.e., the honeymoon stage is not over w/the two of them.

MLC does not run in chronological order. The person experiencing it can be in multiple stages at one time. They will experience all of the stages one last time before entering acceptance and even then, they can have a "tinge" of depression. However, your h is no where near acceptance because he's just now really getting ready to spread his wings because of the divorce. He's not hit the divorce euphoria stage, but that stage will last about 6-9 months and then down into the depression pit once again. Yes, he might feel a bit sorry for what he's done, but it's not enough to pull him completely out of the crisis.

The best advice that I can give you is not to listen to others. Form your own opinions of what really went on in your marriage. Every marriage has its ups and downs and you do have two beautiful children that now need your focus. Turn your stbxh over to God and allow him to work on him. It's now time for you to place your focus on you, your life and your childen, one step at a time.

[golf mom]

Kimmerz, if you're referring to "love tank" in the Gary Chapman sense then the OW isn't filling it at all. I've known my husband 23 years and it wasn't until I read that book that I realized I only thought I was giving him what he needed. It takes really knowing and having a deep connection with a person to really be able to do this and MLCers are not capable of that type of relationship. I know my H isn't capable of receiving love so his love tank will never be full unless he gets to know himself and ask for what he wants (passive-agressive). I agree with snodderly about the purpose of the relationship. Because so much of MLC seems to be about proving their manhood and feeling like they've still "got it" the OW is only in his life for that purpose (at least I think I understand that correctly). After awhile that relationship will be empty because it won't continue to be the escape from himself that he needs. (please correct me, anyone, if I'm misunderstanding all of this). Like you, I've been looking back to try and figure out when this all started. Was it when our youngest was two and my H came home with a two-seater Porsche (a purchase he made without consulting me) or did it start with the death of his parents or the realization that he's turning 50 soon.

I know it doesn't really matter since this is the time to really focus on you and your kids, but I'd be really curious to know how MLCers behavior changes once the D is final. They seem to think they have control by leaving and filing for D, but when the dust has settled what happens to the sense of control? They are no longer running from the LBS so I would think the OW is now going to be the person who represents their lack of control and freedom, but I don't have a good understanding of the aftermath.

[Kimmerz]

You mean he can actually have even more euphoria after the divorce? Well blow me down! I just figured that he was already in his euphoric stage already. I literally have no idea how much more he could spread his wings now that he's divorced. The only thing that's changed with this is he gets his wages garnished. That's it.

I will remind myself that when spew comes my way it very well can be due to something else setting him off. I wonder if he fights with OW. I kinda have a feeling he does. D12 told me that OW was mouthing off to him about something and when Xh tried to explain something to her, he couldn't get a word in edgewise. LOL...I also heard quite some time back that he was snapping at people at work too. I do find it interesting how he'll be just as open and talkative about something one day, then won't look me in the eye the next. I did take note that he does tend to follow suit with me though, and I think it's usually intertwined with the above. Which is if I am friendly and talkative, then he tends to be that way too, but not always. If I back off and keep contact very minimal and short and to the point, then he does the same thing, even acts kinda rude. But all things considered, MLC or not, he is just MOODY. PERIOD. So WHATEVER...LOL!

I appreciate your advice on not listening to others in regards to our marriage. I had decided that some time ago. I realize loved ones want to protect and defend me and mean well. But really they don't know what happened. That's why I like to come here because each and everyone one of us has gone through this and really understand. MLC is one huge complicated mess.

Well I took your advice and started working on my yard. I just came in from a break of mowing, and Im going to start in again.

[job]

Kimmerz,
Yes, he will go through an euphoric phase for a period of time after the divorce. Why? Because he has been set free from all of the unhappiness that he thought you and the relationship had caused him. That euphoria will go by the wayside and once again, those old feelings of unhappiness will come back once again.

There will come a time that the leopard's spots will show once again. The relationship w/the ow will begin to crack and they both will settle into life and that good old spit and polish will wear off and the ugly spots will return. They can't contiue for a very long time putting on the good front for each other.

There will come a time when he will realize what he's done, but there is no guarantee that he will ever admit it to you. Your h lost everything that was good in his life. His lesson is to learn that happiness comes from within and to realize that outside forces will not help in the long run. He needs to learn to accept himself for who he is and understand that what may have taken place many years ago was not something he had control over, i.e., the lack of admiration, validation, etc.

Time is on your side. You've already suffered through the pain and have grown by leaps and bounds. The knowledge that you have gained will carry you through the days ahead and you will become even stronger than you are right now so that you assist your children as well as others.

One last thing, be kind to yourself. Learn to carve out some time for yourself to do those special things that you want to do.

[Kimmerz]

Golf mom you have a very good point in regards to receiving love. Yes, when I did talk about having the "love tank" full I was referring to Gary Chapmans book 5 Love Languages. I have that book and I really like it. I even have it for Teenagers, because my girls are growing and I want to make sure Im filling their love tank.

I know this sounds like a crazy question, but how does one NOT receive or accept love, purposely? You know the year before Xh left I was consistently showing him and giving him love the best I knew how and in the ways I knew he did like. I had read the book. He REJECTED EVERYTHING I DID. Everything. Then during the time of leaving, projected and said that I never did anything to make him feel loved or appreciated. During a small time when he did let the wall down he did admit to rejecting my acts of love because he was terribly afraid of rejection by me.

I too have been curious as to how things will play out after the dust settles. I see my Ex either doing two things. He goes through the Euphoria as snodderly said will happen. Or he actually goes through a depression and reality starts to smack him in the face. Or a little of both.

I say this because I know XH. He will just go about his merry way in complete denial of reality, up until reality literally bits him in the A$$ and he has NO CHOICE but to face reality. Then it's horrible depression and self loathing. I've seen him do this MANY TIME during our marriage. But then again if OW is there to distract him, he may not even notice.

I am not capable of rejecting love when it's offered.

I just don't understand that, and it breaks my heart to think that some people are so dysfunctional that they feel they have to do that. If the day comes that XH realizes the real love that he purposely threw away....I shudder to think what that will do to him.

[golf mom]

Kimmerz, I highly recommend Receiving Love by Harville Hendrix. It was a big eye opener for me. Like you, I thought I received love openly. Boy, was I wrong. My H is also highly deficient in this area which adds to his depression and feelings of low self worth (which he doesn't think he has).

[AJM]

Kimmerz, if he has a system that works for him (avoid reality, get bit, spiral down, rinse, repeat) don't you think that's his coping skill? So far...

he did admit to rejecting my acts of love because he was terribly afraid of rejection by me.

Yep. Seems logical to me. He did to you what he was afraid of most. Like a child would do.

He has to take this trip. He's well on the road. He left. He has to choose to come back if that's what he figures out. He has to choose to figure out first....Some never do, Kimmerz. Some do and never tell you. Even if they want to come back. Too terrified. And since you didn't do this to him, you can't change it or help him. He has to do it. All of it at this point.

As for loving and receiving love. You do what you were taught. What you learned. What you receive feedback is what your partner wants. Until your partner walks the road where there's a signpost up ahead....

AJ

[greatwhitenorth]

I know my H isn't capable of receiving love so his love tank will never be full unless he gets to know himself and ask for what he wants (passive-agressive). I agree with snodderly about the purpose of the relationship. Because so much of MLC seems to be about proving their manhood and feeling like they've still "got it" the OW is only in his life for that purpose (at least I think I understand that correctly). After awhile that relationship will be empty because it won't continue to be the escape from himself that he needs.

Then during the time of leaving, projected and said that I never did anything to make him feel loved or appreciated. During a small time when he did let the wall down he did admit to rejecting my acts of love because he was terribly afraid of rejection by me.

Kimmerz, if he has a system that works for him (avoid reality, get bit, spiral down, rinse, repeat) don't you think that's his coping skill?

He left. He has to choose to come back if that's what he figures out. He has to choose to figure out first.... Some never do, Kimmerz. Some do and never tell you. Even if they want to come back. Too terrified.

All this is emotional unavailability that is rooted in a very deep lack of trust. They build thick walls but find a way to meet superficial social needs by focusing on others and by making people think the connection is deeper than it is. We see the potential for that deep connection, but they're so terrified of it that they run at the first opportunity. They can't sustain the closeness that they so badly crave.

H used to whisper in my ear "never leave me" or "please don't leave me" and early on "I don't want to share you". I thought this was a deep feeling on his part, but know now it was probably projecting onto me what he'd done before. I believe that his behaviour throughout our relationship was an effort to push me away, and when I didn't leave, he did and blamed me for it.

[Kimmerz]

GWN....

Thank you! This is very deep insight and thank you for reminding me of the emotional unavailability.

I just now realized that perhaps what I've been so heart broken over is the "potential" that I thought we had to make a wonderful marriage and life together.

But that just is impossible when someone is emotionally unavailable and passive aggressive. You simply just can not penetrate that.

For people that suffer from emotional unavailability, and passive aggressiveness, the only thing I could see that would help these people would be A) admit they need help. B)Get help, and Accept it. This is true psychotherapy that needs to be done. How can solution therapy do any good if these people will just sabatoge anything positive that starts up anyway?

Yes, I too felt that my Xh was trying to push me away. He did the push pull thing with me over and over. But I wouldn't budge, I just kept being myself and showing him love whenever I felt it was safe. He left me and blamed me too.

Wow.....MLC freaking [censored]!

[greatwhitenorth]

I just now realized that perhaps what I've been so heart broken over is the "potential" that I thought we had to make a wonderful marriage and life together.[/qyote]

Kimmerz - I'm just happy that what I said is useful to you.

I'm on the same page in terms of what I'm grieving...it's that loss of potential, the marriage I thought we had or hoped could have had, the dreams of growing old together, being grandparents together. As my step daughter says, it's just so unfortunate that someone with so much potential can screw up so badly over and over again.

I still struggle with whether I love and miss the man or the life we had and planned to have together. I guess marriage is a combination of the two.

[quote=Kimmerz]But that just is impossible when someone is emotionally unavailable and passive aggressive. You simply just can not penetrate that.

Step daughter is going on an international trip in a couple of days when university is out. Her last exam ends at 10pm the night before she leaves, and she has to take an hour long bus ride home. I asked her if H might be able to drive her home (thinking it's a chance for him to do something nice for her and spend time with her before she goes away for almost two months), but she won't ask him because he'd resent her for it. H is passive aggressive even with his daughter. Says things like "I'd be so rich if I didn't have to pay child support." Way to make your child feel good about herself. But she's a smart girl...knows it's about him and not her.

Bad news is that you're right - they don't see it in themselves so you can't penetrate it. They need true psychotherapy. Good news is that they are capable of seeing it and they CAN fix it if the fear doesn't win out.

Initially after BD H told me to my face that he's scared to "grow a set" as I so *kindly* put it during the single point of acute conflict of our break up. He said in an email a couple of weeks later the he's sorry for hiding from me. I told him he's hiding from himself. He also admitted to pushing everything down, so he knows exactly what he's like, it's just the fear is winning out.

I think there's a special nuance to spouses like ours - it's not *just* MLC, it's MLC encased inside a brick wall. I've read that poor communicators/conflict avoiders/emotionally unavailble are more likely to have difficulty with midlife transitions. We can only hope that they'll peer between the bricks from time to time and realise they don't want us to be further and further away each time.

On a slightly different note, check out the lyrics to Sting's song Fortress Around Your Heart. It's him revisiting the devastation he left behind when he left his first wife, and how he hurt and alienated her, and how he saw later just what he'd lost. Gives me some kind of hope.