I have been reading some of AmyC's posts and have found some of them quite good. I joined the forum after she stopped posting so I guess I never had the pleasure to MEET her. I know some of the older posters speak very highly of her.
For the Newbies she did have her own MLC and she speaks of it in some of these POSTS.
Unfortunately one of the threads that really described it has been purged from the archives.
However I think this may help some people and I will post it in this and two more posts.
Discussion is then welcomed.
Amy C 6/16/06
As an exWAS, I have to say, I think I EXPECTED that my husband knew the things that pissed me off...so I never really even tried to talk about it. I guess I was under that stupid impression that if he loved me, he'd change (God, was I THAT ignorant!? UGH!) So it really did just snowball and instead of trying to talk about it reasonably like an adult, I got derailed by MLC and then couldn't even manage to form a coherent friggin sentence that would begin to explain the garbage in my head. BUT, while IN the MLC, I told my husband that he'd had plenty of time to turn things around. It's just too bad he didn't have a crystal ball.
So don't sweat it Lissett. You either, Hope. Until I started reading this thread, I had really forgotten all about telling my husband that nonsense. Just goes to prove that an MLCer, for the most part, is not in his or her right mind.
Now I just wonder what else I have forgotten....
Amy
6/22/06 There are a few things you have yet to grasp about MLC.
1) We (the MLCer) will comb through every aspect of the past to get a handful of "reasons" we will tell YOU that it is over and should have been back then.
2) Whatever the MLCer says, he or she really means it WHEN THEY ARE SAYING IT.
3) Neither of the above will apply on the other side of the tunnel. Half of it won't even be remembered at all.
But as long as your husband is in MLC (and I really believe he is) he's not reliable, his memory is not reliable, his entire view of the future is not reliable. Nothing he says, feels or does while in MLC will be the same once he is out. The only thing that will be the same are the bruises and scars YOU carry because of all he has done.
There's a wall going up around your heart now. It's going to get higher. That is not necessarily a bad thing under these circumstances. The layers will peel away when the time comes to rebuild, if YOU choose to do so.
The only question now is what will he do when he comes out of the tunnel and deals with life on life's terms?
Will he continue on puffed up by foolish pride and afraid to let anyone see his real feelings over the horror he has caused?
Or will he turn around, learn, grow and try to make up for it all?
Only time will tell.
As you know, you can't stop living your life.
But you also don't have to rewrite your memories of the past to agree with his temporarily warped perception of things.
8/24/06
8/27/06
Last edited by Cadet; 11/30/1802:05 PM. Reason: remove links that have been purged
I think something else that should be pointed out is an MLCer MIGHT also pretty much stop talking to whomever they were closest to. They may get a whole new circle of friends. Or they might push everyone away.
I stopped talking to my sister, who has always been my best friend. But by the time that happened, I'd pushed my husband so far away he couldn't have known that was happening. We lived apart and I'd been out of touch with him for a long time except regarding the house or kids. There was ZERO communication with him unless I HAD to and I would go to great lengths to avoid that. I didn't like the man. I know now that what I really didn't like were the things he made me see about myself. We could have none of THAT! I should also note that when I stopped talking to my sister was when things were beginning to change INSIDE of me. I was getting the first inkling that my story (my rewriting of the marital history) wasn't going to hold water much longer. The cracks were starting to appear. That's when I stopped talking to EVERYBODY.
In my case, through the initial period of deep MLC which manifested outwardly between March '02 & March '04, I'd spun such brilliant BS that everyone thought I was right to want a separation/divorce. In March '04, my husband left for the second time. I'd gotten rid of om before that but was still trying to live it up. I was crashing hard and fairly regularly. I still managed for another year to outrun reality though it did creep in occasionally. My husband stopped fighting for me when he left the second time. That was the biggest jolt. It was good to have that pressure off for awhile though. By summer 2005, I was coming apart at the seams. Completely. I'd exhausted myself with the things of the world that had enticed me, I was looking at families and missing my own. For the first time, I started to see that there had been good times. I had REALLY forgotten them. There are still times as recently as a week ago that I'll remember something and mention it to my husband and he'll look at me as if to say "did you JUST remember/realize that?" and if I were to answer, I'd say yes. MLC stole a big chunk of the good things about my marriage. It seems I get them back a little at a time. But I FORGOT. I did not see us as my husband saw us. So you (husbands of MLC wives) really are holding something precious that no one else has; you're holding the real truth about your lives together. You're the only one that's going to understand her when she comes back. You're all that's going to be familiar and if you're not there...
Anyway after a while, I started seeing how I had contributed to the bad times. By October 2005 I was completely broken and flat on my face in repentance. Thinking of it still makes me cry.
I was a mean MLCer. I convinced myself and everyone around me that my husband was the biggest SOB that ever walked. I BELIEVED it. I twisted every argument we'd ever had but ESPECIALLY as he fought me THEN. I had all my family in support of my efforts. Eventually, and it took a long time, I convinced my husband we were really through.
He stood for over 2 years, though. Alone. Without a message board or a clue about MLC. He just believed in me and in us.
It seemed when in order to save his own sanity he had to let go I started waking up.
You might think that's a shame.
But the rest of my story is still being written.
I don't know why I wrote all that. There are some new people here I guess. Trying to determine if there's hope. Thinking there is hope if it's MLC. To you I'll say this: If you don't humble yourself at this time, if you let pride make you bitter and vengeful, she will never feel able to ask your forgiveness. And THAT ALONE IS PARAMOUNT to her coming out of MLC a better and stronger person. You see, the hardest thing for her will be forgiving herself and she can never do that unless she can come back and talk with you. Love her or not, leave her or not, you've got to make yourself a person (because you are THE person) she can come to and apologize. This is when you're going to have your feet held to fire and you'll find out if your love is really unconditional.
While she's lost, you have work of your own to do.
So you went through this yourself? Yes. What I'm wondering, is how cognitive is an MLCer to what they are experiencing? Not much. It is mass confusion, fueled by anger that runs so deep it never seems to be far away. The term "hairpin trigger" comes to mind... MLCers can be vicious on a good day. Anger is the root, confusion is what we will never in hell admit to, exhaustion is what eventually derails us and we find ourselves looking back at the destruction caused by our own hand. It is almost impossible for me to comprehend that they don't see any of it, none at all? See what exactly? We know we're b*tches from hell but what we DON'T fully comprehend is WHY. It takes a long time for that to begin to come clear. MLC is rooted in unresolved issues, aging and thinking about possible things we might have missed out on, thoughts of 'what I might be able to do if I left this bullsh*t behind...after all, I'm only getting older'... it is rooted in the mundane things we do everyday and no one notices anymore. We might have woken up and realized we have no identity other than "wife and mother" and everything inside us starts screaming PAY ATTENTION TO ME. You most likely don't see much of that internal stuff until it overflows in the form of anger that has you looking at us like our heads just spun around on our shoulders because you asked if, while we're out, we can pick you up something at the store (or something equally stupid). So there it is. The anger and confusion that has festered is now fullblown MLC and you're about to start sleeping with one eye open for however long you stay under the same roof.
When my wife spews her rage, vitriol and makes horrible comments to me (I wish you were dead. Then my problems would be over) she just HAS to know what she is saying is so wrong, you just don't say that to anyone. Agreed. That is excessively hateful. But I will admit to you that although I never said it, God forgive me, I THOUGHT things like that when I was in MLC. And I KNOW that even having not said the words outloud, my EVERY action conveyed that thought to my husband regularly.
Also, if MLC really started long before I saw the signs, is there any way to determine that? I know what you're doing. You want to construct a timeline to give yourself some reasonable idea as to how far she is into this thing. PLEASE do yourself a favor, SCREW THE TIMELINE IDEA. I know that two years ago, I got the first "I need some space to sort this out" line, and that was six months after he mother passed away. Then, a month or two later she had her fling, big shopping sprees, her own illnesses (major migraines, seizures, hospitalized three times). It was a rocky road for us since then until the bomb on Christmas Eve '06. Did her MLC timeline begin two years ago?
My wife was all those things you describe; appeared happy (as much as she could be), great mother, pretty good wife, co-existing and working towards common goals. Is the death of her mother (a wound not yet healed) the "something" that happened? It could definitely be the trigger that got her looking at her life and realizing her dissatisfaction, which by the way, has ALWAYS been a part of her so don't let yourself think it's your fault. Did our not-always-so-great relationship between then and "I need some space" act as a trigger, the "thing in her mind"? Again, mom's death probably kicked off the mental aspect. Until the day she had that talk with you though, it was an internal thing only, I suspect. But in that time, her mind worked her over. By the time she voiced those things to you, she was in MLC, if that is indeed the conclusion you have rightfully come to.
And she doesn't think she is happy, she KNOWS. So did I. At least that is what she is telling me and the kids (and anyone else that will listen). She tells me she hates me (that hurts bad) and does believe our marriage has held her back not only from happiness, but of finding her "soul mate" (oh puke).
And nothing, nothing at all can reach her? Amy, did you have family and friends (not H) pulling you aside for any reality checks? I had every single person absolutely convinced that I knew what I was doing. I had so deluded myself, that everyone else fell right into line supporting me. Did they see what was going on, and now in retrospect, accuratley lay it out in front of you as to what you were doing and how you were acting? No one had a clue. Only since coming out of MLC and WALKING BACK have I told the story in it's entirety to my family. My mother, grandmother, aunt, sister...they ALL know what MLC is now. But they never knew I was so screwed up.
Did they tell you that you have your head up your a** and you're the only one that can't see how silly this is? And if so, it meant nothing to you? I can tell you beyond the shadow of a doubt that there was NOTHING ANYONE could have said to me that would have moved me. As an example, right smack dab in the middle of my MLC, while practicing adultery, I sat my self-righteous butt in church and my Pastor pointed his finger straight at me one day during an altar call and he said to me "how long are you going to sit there?" He had been talking about letting the enemy influence us and destroy our families from within. At the time this happened, not one soul knew I was having an affair. Not one soul. I got called out, IN CHURCH, by a man that I had so much respect for, KNEW God had sent into my life the year before, and yet when he stood there that day, I didn't move a muscle. That is very telling of the grip the enemy had on me and I didn't even realize it. It is interesting to me that I basically lost my mind within a year of darkening the doorway of a church for the first time ever in my whole life. I got involved there, having felt "led" to that teacher for some reason.... 6 years later I know why. It's because every tool he gave me during that first year, I have had to use mightily in order to be able to stand for my marriage.
What happened the day you decided to "work it out on your own"? Oh sweetheart, I didn't "decide" to work it out on my own. Was it gradual, or just a sudden slap in the face, an epiphany? It was gradual and yet very dramatic. I had begun to work at a law firm where one of the attorneys represented children often involved in nasty custody battles and the other attorney practiced mostly bankruptcy law. Between the kids, which tore me apart, and one particular couple that was filing for bankruptcy and yet exhibited SUCH AMAZING DEVOTION to one another, my eyes began to open to the state of my own family. Another HUGE thing that occured was I ended up one day on the scene of a motorcycle accident in which the man laid in the ditch and died with me sitting there beside him. There were other very significant things that occured over a period of months but when I fully awoke, it put me literally on my face in devastation. I could not endure the pain of the realization of what I had done, the role I had played in the destruction of my family. I could not hardly breathe having the knowledge of what I'd done to a man that had loved me, not perfectly, but so utterly completely. Coming OUT of MLC would have surely been the death of me had it not been for the grace of God. The guilt, shame and horror were SOOOOO oppressive...
If you have a link to any of this (I can't find it) can you please copy it here so I can read up? Surely I have at least 25 threads or so by now. I started the first one in October 2005. I will see what I can find. What did your husband do during all this? Bless his heart, for 2 years he stood and fought like hell to save us. It was not until he let go, that I started my painfully slow journey back. Interestingly, I signed separation papers last October and moved out of our home in December. Since then, we have become closer than ever and had several very significant breakthroughs. The latest one was just tonight.
Lots of questions from me here, but the more I read about all this, the more it scares me and braces me for the hellish pain I may have to endure. Don't be afraid. Find out rightquick what you believe in and why you choose to stand. You're going to have to remind yourself of that alot in the months to come.
God bless."
Edited by Cadet for carriage returns and bold and readability 6/9/2012 This was originally posted on 6/3/2007
Last edited by Cadet; 11/30/1802:44 PM. Reason: remove links that have been purged
Man what a wild ride. Cadet great that u posted this. It gives me an idea of what W is going through. I see the fog on her face everyday. When we went to court last week I heard the confusion in her answers as if she had not thought them through. Pretty sad that she is driving the divorce car.
M 53 D 20 Separated 6/22/11 moved out 10/24 Together 26 yrs Married 16 W Filed for D 7/21/11 Served 9/6/11 D final 8/28/12
“Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be.”
Alex, the only advice I can give you is what others gave me when I started on this board. GAL, work on yourself, be still, give the W lots of space and buy yourself as much time as possible. She with either come back, or she won't, you cannot make her, beg her, guilt her, or buy her. She must choose. It does seem to me that given enough time, most MLC'ers make thier way back to their spouses. The only question is, are you willing to wait and take them back when they exit the roller coaster? Can you last the amount of time this will take? This is a rough brutal trip with a lot of heartache involved. Ask yourself those questions before you start and the very best of luck to you!! If I can help, let me know!!!
Bravehart posted this^^^^^^ to someone else. That is the question that I must find an answer to.
M 53 D 20 Separated 6/22/11 moved out 10/24 Together 26 yrs Married 16 W Filed for D 7/21/11 Served 9/6/11 D final 8/28/12
“Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be.”
AmyC was extremely helpful to the posters here and I often wonder what happen to her.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
