Thank you Amy! When I looked at your comments about NC, I called my SIL in and said there is H! Finally, someone who kind of resembles him. I could kiss you!!!
Do you think if you H had pushed for a D it would have been better or worse, than just leaving you alone?
Whenever he pushed at all he had a hellcat on his hands. Lay low. You'll have less scars.
This too has been so much my experience. When I "pushed" to work on the M, I had monster. When I "pushed" to D, I had monster.
Both the confusion AND the reaction to (perceived or real) pressure can produce monster.
Were there any childhood issues you can think of that you resolved in your mind during your MLC that helped bring you out of it? I have read that MLC is almost always related to unresolved childhood issues.
Yes, stillhoping.
That I was "good enough".
Also this one from the same thread
Originally Posted By: AmyC
Originally Posted By: missmyfriend
What good does it know why our spouses may be in MLC? I think understanding diffuses anger and compassion can set in. I am not saying acceptance of the actions but compassion and forgiveness.
I agree. But you can never tell a MLCer that you might have a handle on the underlying cause. Not until a time comes that they come to you and express an awareness of their own. Even then, I'd recommend treading lightly.
Originally Posted By: AmyC
Any indication that you are "analyzing" her is likely to be met with indignation and maybe even wrath. She will see you as condescending and unable to admit that you could be a part of the problem. She will think you are trying to blame everyone but yourself for the state of your marriage. Your words to the contrary won't matter. She will think you are grasping at straws and in denial. I wouldn't bring it up if I were you. Unless you want to get mauled. Of course, she might be a gentle MLCer. I was abdolutely vicious. The exact opposite of what my husband had known me to be previously. One other thing though - when I was at my absolute worst as far as how I treated him, I cried myself to sleep every night because I didn't understand what the hell was wrong with me. But every morning, I woke up pissed off and wanting to get away all over again.
But I think I was depressed before he started. I was in fact.
Had our second child and in went into a deep depression.
I actually thought I didn't want to be married anymore.
But I really did. I was just so unhappy. Anyway, I remember that summer so well. We went as a family to the UK. Has a great time.
When we got back home, I thought we were just plodding a long. We weren't. He was reconnecting with an old GF ( fizzled out ) and strengthening a relationship with a common friend of ours ( female) who was also married. ( the current OW)
4 months after the great UK trip he told me That OW is only one for him and vice versa. I handled it very poorly. I was shocked to say the least. He quickly apologised, said he was just lashing out in anger and hurt.
But I was numb with fear.
One month later he moved out of the bedroom. He wouldn't talk with me about what was going on. He became secretive. Stopped wanting to do things with me or be treated as a couple. He 'broke up with me'. Went out with a different set of friends. Was cold, distant...MEAN. Out till all hours of the night, etc etc
4 months after that he said he wanted to move out...'needed space'. That our dreams are no longer. I am 'not the one'. In the background OW is on the prowl. OW leaves her husband and gets her own place.
Three months later his father passed away. H moved out into OW house.
Swears to me they are just friends. In my heart I know better but don't want to anger him. He has become a monster at that point between the dirty looks, the accusations, the self righteousness...etc
Eventually he gets his own place. Rum ors still continue about him and OW which he denies.
He blames me for spreading rum ors, being the cause of his unhappiness.
I was so devastated I couldn't move.
He tells our friends and other people how he is so finished with me. That I am a nag, I annoy him, i have a temper. That he is a victim of this all.
I hear all of this from other people. But he doesn't deny it when I ask him.
5 months later he seems to be softer. More engaged. We have our ten month anniversary and we acknowledge it with champagne. I couldn't believe it. Really thought we were starting to move forward.
He doesn't move back but he started asking me to make new things for dinner - like a fun challenge it was nice. We took family portraits for the first time.
One month later he is cold and disengaged again. Mean again. Apparently He had broken up with OW and was reengaging with her throughout the time I thought things were becoming positive.
In the meantime he swears that there is no OW to me, friends and family.
I find text messages to confirm all. It's all a lie. He says its an EA. Apologises to me because he has to ( no real remorse). And continues to be cold, refusing to talk and stubborn. Insists that he wants a D and even implied that the EA was my fault for not granting a D.
Anyway, I ask if we can seal the walls of our M from outside influences in order to see what's going on. He doesn't say yes or no. Says he will do his 'best'. In the meantime he is still in contact with OW because she is a 'friend' and still sees her.
H cold, distant, exclusionary, doesn't include me. Sees the kids and leaves. Fast forward a few more months, OW rumors again. He is back in EA. She becomes his 'best friend'
Today- EA is now PA.
This is a timeframe of almost two years since he moved out.
Throughout this he takes off wedding ring ( a week after he moved out), bought a boat, travels ( without me) as if we have money like the Trumps, tells me he is unhappy with me. That I will never change. That I was annoying. We have different priorities. When I pushed him to understand what he means with these vague statements he won't respond. The only thing he says is the thing that really bugged him was the way I reacted when he told me that OW was the only one for him and vice versa. How the he'll was I supposed to react ( I cried, screamed, locked him out--- ok not model behaviour but this lasted a whole 30 minutes).
He told me that actually he has been unhappy since BEFORE D4 was born. That maybe we were never really in love when we got married.
In his eyes he is the victim of me.
I don't know why I am writing this all here. I apologise for the long winded post.
This thread has been very useful in understanding MLC. Thank you Cadet for it.
TPS Me: 44 H: 42 M14 T17 S10 D7 10/10 H moves out after death of his father-same month 21/04/12 H is 'DONE' 04/05/12 OW/PA confirmed (rumors from 2010) July '14 H ends affair May '15 H moves back home
Sorry just to add, myH's mom passed away when he was 14. It has always been traumatic for him
TPS Me: 44 H: 42 M14 T17 S10 D7 10/10 H moves out after death of his father-same month 21/04/12 H is 'DONE' 04/05/12 OW/PA confirmed (rumors from 2010) July '14 H ends affair May '15 H moves back home
Just read something on the web about a fellow (John Folk-Williams) who went through depression and describes the experience, especially in regards to how it affects their thoughts of their spouse:
(re-posted for educational purposes) "The longing to leave one’s intimate partner brings out something that isn’t much discussed in descriptions of depression. It is the active face of the illness. We often focus on the passive symptoms, the inactivity, the isolation, sense of worthlessness, disruption of focused thought, lack of will to do anything. But paradoxically the inner loss and need can drive depressed people to frenzied action to fill the great emptiness in the center of their lives. They may long to replace that inadequate self with an imagined new one that makes up for every loss. "
The reason I post that here is to perhaps point to how depression, as what is believed the underlying condition throughout MLC, may be a factor in the MLCer's drive to fill the void they feel within themselves. Even desperately so, at an aggressive pace. Can anyone say "OP" and "replay"?
KD, Yes, I can say replay and OP...they long to find something that will excite them and make them feel alive. Many of mlcers will state that they feel smothered or will die if they continue to live under the same roof w/us. It's actually the depression talking.
I read a number of good books on depression many years ago. Sting, who is a former poster, also read many good books and we posted them on the thread called "Highly Recommended Reading Materials".
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
And yes, one thing my W would say to me is that she didn't feel the "passion". Like it was something that is externally found.
They need to fill that void and they are desperate and frantic to find it. Along with equally avoiding that which they feel hurts them.
I used to chuckle to myself (underneath my own pain) that my W claimed to not have any passion, yet she sure had passion to go out to that party and drink lots. Like, to the point of numb teeth and throwing up... *sigh*
Also, I realize that the post about depression sounds almost like stating the obvious.
I think if I could be a little more clear, without sounding like somehow I think I've found some holy grail, rather to simply say to those who might wonder WHY the MLCer appears so active or desperate to party, get that new car they are so proud of, get into an intimate R with their OP "soulmate"... is likely the absolutely deep and scary fear of "the void"... like it truly is the death of them if the enter it...
Im really glad that was reposted bed Kaffe in regards to depression. I've recently been on a new site that really describes how depression and destroy relationships. It tackles all the anger, resentment, blame, criticism that comes with it.
I now am understanding without a doubt how the catalyst is major depression for MLC.
My Xh said " there was no passion" between us anymore...yet I could see he no longer had passion for life when he said that. He did tell me that he could never go back to where he was, so depressed and he felt that coming back home would put him right back to where he was before.
Now what I question was if he had just been riding the "high" of getting a new place, furnishing it with new things and enjoying his new man cave, and therefore felt that was it! yes he is so happy to be in his own place, well surely that was theproblem all along, he had to leave! But as I look back, he hadn't been in his new apartment 3 weeks before that high must've started to burst and he started to get extremely lonely. Still anxious, drinking, texting and emailing like mad....honestly I felt sorry for him. He acted as if I had been the one that had completely abandoned him and he didn't know what to do with himself.
Not long after...enter OW.
Gee it's so amazing how each time to look back you can see even more of the forrest for the trees.
Yes Kimmerz, notice how they "find" that passion to pursue what they think they want. What they don't seem to realize (the depression coaxing them) is that the passion is coming from within them. They think the passion is coming after the fact, as a result of this new change, new love, new apartment / job / car.
That chemical released in the brain is doing the same thing for them as the alcohol or other drug is doing. Allowing them to avoid the depression. The booze gives them passion and fills the void, or the OP does...
Depression seeks to avoid by reaching out for external stimuli.
The whole "I can't go back there" is them thinking that a metaphor is reality. "There" being their fear of the void of depression. But they relate it to being literally us, or the M, or our old house, or whatever... "There" changes as they loose their current passion for something / someone and the run to the next.
And the depression blocks their ability to see what was, before depression struck. It's a moment in time which is all the history they can focus on. And all their history begins to be re-woven around that specific moment.
My W also lashed out at me with words suggesting I had abandoned her and my Ds. All the while telling me and other common friends that she was the one who made the decision to exit the M. From what I can gather, her family and really close, unique to her, friends have one story (me being the bad one and leaving her or not being the H she deserved). That's the one I think they really believe. That their depression allows them to have, that they are the victim.
The other story, which they might tell mutual friends and the spouse and similar people (people that they have not enlisted to support them), is one where they left the M as it was not working for them. Being the martyr. Because depression tells them they must atone. For depression tells them they are not good nor worthy.
