Gosh.... I can't believe how depression is so complicated.
If they ever truly get out of depression, do they even remember any of this? Will they still look back and think it really was us that caused it all?
Like Amy said she convinced everyone that she was in the right to leave her marriage. I know XH has done his best to put me in that light, and he has two people that support him in that 100 %. The others, well seem to play neutral.
You know, when i was in the throws of deep depression myself, I rationalized the same way XH has done. Oh it was all his fault nothing was right in the marriage and my life, when really he was doing just fine as a husband really. I remember becoming so full of despair, frustration, anger, resentment, not only towards XH but everyone in my life. I got to the point I wanted to divorce him or kill myself. But thanks to the grace of God and Angels, I heard this little teeny voice saying " when did you last take your anti depressants?" Gee...2 months ago. What happens when you don't stay on them? You get out of control like this. "What do you need to do?" Get back on them. "are all these people really at fault like you think they are?" No, it's all me and my perspective right now.
That was many years ago I went through that. I guess now I can related better to what an MLCer is going through now. Gosh I really hope he can find his way out of this. And every other MLCer too.
Both Amy and this John (and I've seen more suggestions of this) have indicated that they DO eventually remember. Not all at once. It takes time for much of the memories to come back or be re-made. Like someone with amnesia recreating memories of their past, by bits and pieces they remember and also related to them as common history by others.
I think it was Amy as re-posted by Cadet in this thread, that suggested (or maybe it was HB in another thread) that the MLCer has two paths once they are out of the tunnel:
+ continue to deny or otherwise never face "the damage" and carry on with their new life
+ own the damage and apologize as necessary and rebuild.
The latter is obviously the more difficult road and take loads of courage and strength by the postMLCer. But some definitely do rebuild. And I also think it takes loads of courage and strength by the LBS (and others), as well.
I think the former could lead to a relapse of MLC down the road.
Yes, I've had a couple bouts of deep depression (thankfully no R were harmed in the making and production of them). And I "remember" the fog... and the rationalizing... and I also remember the bits and pieces that were based more in reality... after the fact... but I know how it works from the inside... I just know that it looks very different from the outside... to an outsider...
People have asked me about my ex. and why I don't wish her bad things. Honestly, this is it right here. I saw this first hand. The "I don't love you anymore" to the re-weaving history around that thought. I saw the depression and almost frantic chase to re-capture...feeling.
I was told that anger is the easiest emotion to be in contact with. I believe it after watching what she went through. It was very depressing to see this once vibrant woman transform like that.
From there, it was a frantic attempt at getting feeling back and the anger and rage...wow. Was like watching a raging storm. Still is sometimes, but I'm far removed from that as much as I can be with kids.
But I really didn't get it until I started slipping into depression after she left the second time. Those who say crazy is contagious, really meant depression I think. That lasted a short time for me, but the feeling was horrible. Or rather, the lack of feeling. I felt like I would do almost anything to feel again. That voice inside stopped me. I knew it wasn't real and I struggled hard to put it behind me. I worked very hard at PMA and it eventually subsided.
As a man who believes in Christ, I think often our darkest days are when we lose belief and therefore hope. That's a darkness I don't care to revisit.
So I'm happy for her. I'm glad she didn't end her life. I'm sorry she chose me, but then again I'm glad she didn't choose the kids (permanently). I hope for her sake she never goes back to that place she was in.
The lies and the rest? Sure. But I think that's to be expected. People who really know me know better. People that don't... well that's their loss And those that ask, know that it had nothing to do with me. That's good enough for me.
As my counselor once said, it could have been worse
My ex had choices and she chose this path. Via con Dios. And I hope it works out for her. I'll never fully understand, but I am not really sure I want to to be honest. That's a dark place I don't want to go if I have a choice (and I do)...
AJ
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK Put the glass down... "Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
I know I'm prone to depression and I think depression partly led to my own disconnect with my W 5 or so years ago. Still, I am blessed in a way, I suppose, that my depression is generally just that and I know how to get myself out.
I should have noticed the "signs" in my W, and that still is assuming that my W IS MLC.
The thing is, my W has been diagnosed with a condition that causes symptoms such as memory loss and irritability and she also was menopausal. I actually don't know if she was pre-menopausal or she actually was/is menopausal. There's missing information on that for me.
My W was also on medication for her condition which I do not know what the side affects are. Plus, she appears to have tendencies for certain PD symptoms for as long as I've known her.
So really, I just can not tell what the heck. But many of the words and actions point at MLC.
Anyhow, so once my W started disconnecting from the M and me and reality began to sink in for me, I also slipped into a depressed state. Kinda like the blind leading the blind.
I know I'm much better now, but still wonder if I am the crazy one, at times. Wonder who's history is accurate or if it's something between her story and mine.
So it goes and so it is and forward. With compassion for the MLCer and the hope that they find their peace.
For the LBS, we so need to find our own peace as soon as we can.
Both Amy and this John (and I've seen more suggestions of this) have indicated that they DO eventually remember. Not all at once. It takes time for much of the memories to come back or be re-made. Like someone with amnesia recreating memories of their past, by bits and pieces they remember and also related to them as common history by others.
I think it was Amy as re-posted by Cadet in this thread, that suggested (or maybe it was HB in another thread) that the MLCer has two paths once they are out of the tunnel:
+ continue to deny or otherwise never face "the damage" and carry on with their new life
+ own the damage and apologize as necessary and rebuild.
The latter is obviously the more difficult road and take loads of courage and strength by the postMLCer. But some definitely do rebuild. And I also think it takes loads of courage and strength by the LBS (and others), as well.
I think the former could lead to a relapse of MLC down the road.
This post [and the direction of the thread in discussing depression] exactly reflects my experience with my xh. It is now 7 years since he entered MLC world big-time [he was paddling in its shallow waters for a while before then]. He is now through the tunnel but unable or unwilling to face his issues. He clearly isn't happy, and would like to have 'friendship' with me, but I am not a big enough person to carry this one off.
I am not nursing hurt, but feel, rightly or wrongly, that by being his 'friend' [by which he means exchanging an occasional email, and perhaps meeting up with me and the boys once a year] I am enabling his pretence that all is now well. It isn't, and nor is it anything my adult children wish to be part of. Their on-going frustration is that can't talk to their father any more about anything that matters to them or him. The barriers are still up, and he becomes angry if challenged on anything.
I have always encouraged, as far as I can without interference, them to stay in touch with their father, although he has made it hard at times by his behaviour, but he isn't my father. They see him occasionally and do exchange emails. But he was my dearly loved husband, and I am tremendously saddened by who he has become. I genuinely wish him well, but do not want to be part of his life, or want him in mine. The ML Journey doesn't always work through to a 'good' ending, sadly. That is why it is so important that we move on with our own lives and become the person we want to be, even though we didn't choose it! It is a tough on-going process that still has the pwer to sadden me at times.
Beatrice said: The ML Journey doesn't always work through to a 'good' ending, sadly. That is why it is so important that we move on with our own lives and become the person we want to be, even though we didn't choose it! It is a tough on-going process that still has the pwer to sadden me at times.
And thank goodness for all the wonderful people on here who can talk us off that ledge. I can sometimes see that I could easily jump back into self-pity. But instead I read a bit here and then climb back in the window to the new beautiful life I am creating for myself! Bea you are a lifesaver!
Me 57 XH 58 Sons age 32 & 27 M:32 D final 9/12 Bought 10 Acres and Living the Dream!
And those that ask, know that it had nothing to do with me. That's good enough for me. 
I AM impressed!