I'm at a crossroads I never thought I would come to in my life. My wife is in a physical and emotional affair with a co-worker. She has said she will not stop seeing him, but she is not sure about a future with him. She wants me to stay until she is sure she know what she wants. I almost started the divorce process, but could not go through with it as I don't feel ready. She is still in a torrid affair with him, and I don't know what to do as we have two children. This is the hardest point in my life.
I should go back and explain our situation. WW and I were married 14 years ago. We were in love and had 2 children in that time. I got layed off five years ago and had to work longer hours. She and I fought more often and dos not get along as well, but we were happy a lot of times as well.
Then last year, she had to move her work location to a two hour commute. She would have to get up at 5 am to make her car pool and felt she might have to quit her job. She became very depressed and would stay in bed late. I would keep the kids busy and hold her, telling her there was a light at the end of the tunnel.
This year, she finally perked up. She got used to the commute and became very happy. She was able to work from home three days a week. She would chatter incessantly every day she was home. After a while she appeared too happy.
I started to get worried. I asked her about drugs, but she claimed it was her new vitamins. When I was running the phone bill, I noticed a lot of calls to a coworker. She claimed they were working on an important project.
Then came her conference to Florida. She was chosen to go for a week. I asked if her coworker was going as well, but she said he could not make it. So I watched the kids while she went to the conference.
When she got back, she was calling the OM every day. She was coming home late. I caught her on the phone with him that Wednesday and she tried to hide it. Finally, on Friday, I checked her e-mail. It was D-day, 5/18/2012. They had been together on multiple dates and they planned on the conference. He bought his own tickets and flew there. She loved the view from thier balcony. I was devastated.
That night I confronted her. She denied, then confirmed an emotional affair. She denied a physical one.
Over the next six weeks it was crazy time. I checked her phone and hired detectives. I uncovered the physical affair. We went to marriage counseling together. At one point it appeared they would end it, but she came back to him. At our forth MC, I asked if she would agree to NC. She said no.
I then set up mediation to start the S. She asked me to cancel it, that we did not need to. I went back and forth, and in the end I could not do it. I cancelled the night before.
It seemed to help at first. She told the OM that they had no future. He sent her sweet nothings, she melted again and now will keep seeing him.
If I wait, is there any hope? Can I 180 her, or must we be in R? I don't want a D, but I don't think I can do this for long. I think her heart is gone.
____________________________________ Me: 42 WW: 46 Married: 14y D-Day: 5/18/2012 D 12, S 8 Status: In my room, but A Continues
I would suggest you post on newcomers. There's more traffic there.
I truly understand your frustration. Take a lot of deep breaths. That's the first advice I can give you for now. Others will chime in with much more useful advice.
Take very very good care of yourself!
M 42 H 39 T10 (-2yrs separation) S8 D5 DD 7/30/11 (EA&PA) Reconciled 6/2013 Separation in works 1/2017
Very sorry you are here. But it's a good place to be, for a painful reason.
To me it is clear you have NOT read the books that form the basis of this appraoch to marriage problems. You have to do that asap b/c you are making a lot of rookie mistakes (no offense. We have all been there). See below...
But get the Div Busting book OR the Div Remedy book and read it NOW and THEN Come back and post here so you'll maximize the use of this board,
and for now around your wife, back way way off,
I'll post some newbie rules for you later but get the book! THE first chapter of one of them is around here online...good luck
Originally Posted By: wont_stop
I'm at a crossroads I never thought I would come to in my life. My wife is in a physical and emotional affair with a co-worker. She has said she will not stop seeing him, but she is not sure about a future with him. Stop asking her anything about OM and stop challenging her choices.
The more you do that the more you force her to defend her choices instead of examining them.
She wants me to stay until she is sure she know what she wants. I almost started the divorce process, but could not go through with it as I don't feel ready. Read the books and stop talking about divorce or filing. If you need to see a lawyer to know your rights, so be it. I get that big time. But you need DO NOTHING at the moment.
Back off...
She is still in a torrid affair with him, and I don't know what to do as we have two children. This is the hardest point in my life.
I should go back and explain our situation. WW and I were married 14 years ago. We were in love and had 2 children in that time. I got layed off five years ago and had to work longer hours. She and I fought more often and dos not get along as well, but we were happy a lot of times as well.
Then last year, she had to move her work location to a two hour commute. She would have to get up at 5 am to make her car pool and felt she might have to quit her job. She became very depressed and would stay in bed late. I would keep the kids busy and hold her, telling her there was a light at the end of the tunnel.
This year, she finally perked up. She got used to the commute and became very happy. She was able to work from home three days a week. She would chatter incessantly every day she was home. After a while she appeared too happy.
I started to get worried. I asked her about drugs, but she claimed it was her new vitamins. then you know the affair is like a drug; it's intoxicating to her. Don't argue with her about it. It's like telling an addict that being high is wrong...have ANY of them quit b/c someone else said to? NOT MANY...but affairs do wear off...and if she's smart enough to already know there isn't a big future with him you may need to back off and let this run its course while you work on YOU - b/c you are all you control in this. STop worrying and obsessing about her or what SHE is doing/saying/thinking.
If you read the Div books that form this site's focus, you'll learn some strategies to help you improve as a partner to become the man you were meant to be, a man only a fool would leave.
.
When I was running the phone bill, I noticed a lot of calls to a coworker. She claimed they were working on an important project.
Then came her conference to Florida. She was chosen to go for a week. I asked if her coworker was going as well, but she said he could not make it. So I watched the kids while she went to the conference.
When she got back, she was calling the OM every day. She was coming home late. I caught her on the phone with him that Wednesday and she tried to hide it. Finally, on Friday, I checked her e-mail. It was D-day, 5/18/2012. They had been together on multiple dates and they planned on the conference. He bought his own tickets and flew there. She loved the view from thier balcony. I was devastated. That night I confronted her. why? If you knew, then what was the point of confronting? You want to "Win her back" right? Then stop harassing her and pleading, and obsessing and just
be the better choice.
She denied, then confirmed an emotional affair. She denied a physical one.
Over the next six weeks it was crazy time. I checked her phone and hired detectives. I uncovered the physical affair. We went to marriage counseling together. At one point it appeared they would end it, but she came back to him. At our forth MC, I asked if she would agree to NC. She said no.
STOP FORCING THE ISSUE>..you've barely been here 2 months...
I then set up mediation to start the S. She asked me to cancel it, that we did not need to. I went back and forth, and in the end I could not do it. I cancelled the night before.
It seemed to help at first. She told the OM that they had no future. He sent her sweet nothings, she melted again and now will keep seeing him.
If I wait, is there any hope? Can I 180 her, or must we be in R? I don't want a D, but I don't think I can do this for long. I think her heart is gone.
Slow down and take a lot of slow breaths. She is confused.
Your focus needs to be on YOUR own work and what role you had in this, which you do NOT need to discuss at this time. Do NOT bring up the marriage at all right now.
Figure out what you want from this day forward. Is there really a light at the end of the tunnel for you two financially? What do you think your wife would say is wrong with the marriage or you?
IF any of it is valid, work on it. Counter her negatives with positives. Dig deep and make some real changes in your life so she can believe in them. For her to come back home for good, she has to believe ONE thing - that marriage to you can be better/different than before.
Show her that it can be, with the changes YOU Make. Not words! And please do yourself a huge favor and read the Div Remedy book asap.
Most of us who do reconcile, take a lot longer than a few months to do so. But we tend to last longer too.
Hang in there.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
These are "Rules" for newcomers assembled/organized by Sandi, consisting of principles based on MWD's Div Busting approach, (& edited SLIGHTLY by yours truly). I recommend you copy and paste & print it out. Carry it in your pocket if you have to. I know I did.
FOR WHEN YOU GET "THE BOMB"…. 1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore! This turns the spouse completely off!
2. No frequent phone calls to spouse.......let him/her be the one to call you. Then, don't try to hang on to your spouse through conversation.....instead, you say good-bye first.
3. Do not point out good points in marriage or try to get him/her to read marriage books, look at your M pictures, etc. Especially, do not get him/her to read the DB/DR book. That is for you only!
4. Do not follow your spouse around the house like a puppy dog trying to get his/her time and attention.
5. Do not encourage talk about the future. They don't want to think about a future with you at the moment, so stay clear of that subject.
6. Do not ask for help from family members or friends. Don't discuss private matters with them that would upset your spouse.
7. Do not ask for reassurances (That is showing neediness and being clingy.) Show self-respect and self confidence.
8. Do not buy gifts to make "brownie points". (Can't buy his/her love and affection.)
9. Do not schedule dates together at this point. (That is pursuing.) Save for later when the R is much better. 10. Do not spy on spouse by checking emails, phone bills, etc. (Not good for you and will make matters worse.) In short, No Snooping.
11. Do not say "I Love You" (It is being "pushy" and trying to make your spouse say it back to you......he/she will despise you for it.) 12. Act "as if" you are moving on with your life with or without them and that you are going to be okay. Keep a good attitude.
13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive at all times! In other words, be the best you can be and look the best you can look at all times. Even when wearing jeans and T-shirt, wear good cologne/perfume, b/c it does cause the spouse to take notice.
14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse to see what kind of mood he/she is in or what he/she is going to do or say – get busy, think of things to do. Go to church, go out with friends, etc. in order to get a life for yourself without waiting on your wife/husband.....but it is okay to invite them, just don't act as if it will change your plans if they do or don't go.
15. When at home with your spouse, do 180s… (so if you usually start the conversation---then don't, wait for him/her to initiate), then be rather scarce or minimal with your words, but don't sound rude or too short like you are mad. If your spouse asks what's wrong....just say "nothing" and have a pleasant expression on your face. Keep it short & simple. Don't get into an argument! Stay polite and don’t pout. Use poise and class. This does not mean to act like you aren’t speaking, but don’t be overly talkative.
16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK THEM NOTHING!! (No matter what time he/she comes home.) You are giving them space and asking no questions! You enjoy YOUR life and time with your kids, friends, etc. Remember, you are getting a life too. 17. *******You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.
18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what he/she will be missing. (But never ask him/her if he/she has noticed any changes!!) This is important! If you do, then you have blown it. The supposed changes will look like "tactics" to get them back & then they won't believe the changes are lasting.
19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. This can confuse some of them b/c it is not what they expected. Show your spouse someone he/she would want to be around all the time, somebody that can be attractive & fun to be with. (As hard as this is, remember that angry, sad, pouting people do NOT ATTRACT others to them). The FUN somebody is you! Don't overkill in your attempts to outshine another person your spouse may be having an A with (if there is OP in the picture) to the point of looking like your attempts are "fake" b/c your spouse will see through all of that.
20. All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while) so this takes patience on your behalf.
21. Never lose your cool! Never lose your temper! (That reinforces their choice to leave). Don't let your spouse trap you into a fight. Don't take her/his bait.....leave the room or the house for a while, if you have to, in order to avoid a fight.
22. Don't be overly enthusiastic, don't over-kill or be over the top in anything you do b/c it will come across as fake.
23. Do not argue about how your spouse feels about something (it only makes his/her feelings more negative.) Only they know how they feel!
24. Be patient……VERY, very patient. Give your spouse space and time. When you pull back, it will draw them towards you. It feels opposite of what you want to do, but it works!
25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you. Look them in the eyes when they talk to you. Do NOT interrupt them when they are speaking, OR correct them, and stop what you may be working on or doing, to look at them when they talk. This shows them that you really care about what they are saying. (Listening better never hurts.)
26. Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out (or scream and yell). Silence can be the loving thing to "not say." 27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil). This is for your health's sake.
28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly. Calmness is soothing to the calm person AND their "audience". Read self help books, inspirational books or listen to tapes. They are for you only, NOT your spouse. The more you tell them what you are doing (or trying to show them) the more your actions will seem manipulative & insincere.
29. Know that if you can do 180's, your smallest CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write or a single dramatic gesture. (Not saying not to do/say those too, but focus on consistent changes, over time. That earns the spouse's belief in the changes).
30. Do not be openly show that you are "desperate" or "needy" even when you are hurting more than ever, & even when you truly feel desperate & needy. This is a large turn-off for your spouse. Very important that you get this concept.
31. When you communicate with your spouse, do not focus on yourself; instead, focus on them. If in person, make eye contact. 32. Do not believe any of what THEY SAY and less than 50% of what THEY DO. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because he/she is hurting and scared, AND OR, b/c they want to justify their leaving.
33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
34. Do not ask your spouse if he/she has noticed your changes! Those changes are for you and for the rest of your life...with or without your spouse. If it is just to get your spouse back...they won't last and the same problems will return.
35. Do not send several TM's or emails throughout the day, unless absolutely necessary. (That means only in urgent matters.)
36. It is best to stay away from the bar scenes where other problems easily arise.
37. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes.
38. Do Not convince yourself that being miserable or sad shows how much you care for your spouse. It's not attractive or appealing, period.
39. If there is an OW/OM in the picture, don't focus on them. BE the better choice, which means being a spouse only a fool would leave.
40. Know that you really will be alright in the long run, that your personal work will yield good things regardless of the choices others make. You will be happy again.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Thanks for all the support. I'd expected to hear that without NC there would be no hope, so now I jave some.
I really wish I had not been spying on her. I know more than I want to now and I feel more inadequate for it. All the other thrashing I went through may have damaged the marriage beyond help. She wants separate accounts and she is talking of me "being on the rebound" and how we are going through changes, but I shouldn't believe much of this I guess.
Thanks for the rules 25yearsmile. I will definitely print them out and read them every day. I'm trying to get the books, too trusting, but we are on a trip camping with the inlaws for a week. We go every year and its a good time for us to be together. Unfortunately, she has taken every oppurtunity to call and text him. This trip seems to have made them grow closer. She barely tries to hide it. The trip also reminds me of all we will lose if we end it. It's very hard to follow the rules in this situation, but I will keep trying.
I will try and post this in the newbie section, Veroprado, if the moderator will allow it.
I wish I had found this board earlier. It's great to have support.
____________________________________ Me: 42 WW: 46 Married: 14y D-Day: 5/18/2012 D 12, S 8 Status: In my room, but A Continues
I'm sorry for your pain. I have been there myself, and although my own marriage has been recovered for five years now, there are STILL times when painful triggers can happen. This will, in all likelihood, be the most difficult thing you've had to face up until this point in your life.
On the bright side, it also has the opportunity to be THE DEFINING MOMENT in your life up until this point.
How old are your children, by the way?
Other than probably disagreeing somewhat with her "affairs don't last" (many do -- they are basically addictions, and like most addictions they simply don't end on their own, and in fact usually escalate, first, and can be incredibly destructive in the meantime), I agree with just about everything 25MLC has told you and you'd be wise to follow. There's not much I can add, other than this:
You seem to be a "rescuer/pleaser" type. (I know, cuz I am one, too ). I see it in statements like this:
Quote:
She became very depressed and would stay in bed late. I would keep the kids busy and hold her, telling her there was a light at the end of the tunnel.
I'd advise you to STOP rescuing her from the consequences of her choices -- even when they're destructive -- and let her "put on her big-girl panties (BGPs)" as we say around here. Sadly, you can NOT reach her emotionally right now, nor can you reason with her, because her brain is all aflush with endorphines from her affair (just google "PEAs love lust brain addiction" and do some research on this). Work on YOU -- protecting yourself legally and financially, and on self-improvement physically, emotionally and spiritually.
Your wife will have a choice to me, but so do you: you have to decide if you want to be with someone who doesn't want to be with YOU. We can't answer that for you. I chose to FIGHT for my wife and for my marriage, with every ounce of strength I had and with every tool at my disposal, and was successful. But I've also seen the "let them go" approach work very effectively as well. I do feel very strongly that unless and until your wife sees you ACTUALLY MOVING AWAY FROM HER, emotionally, she will most likely continue to try to keep both her "Plan A" and her "Plan B" thing going. Unfortunately, YOU are 'plan B' right now.
Have you given some thought as to how long you want to fight for this? I'm not a fan of external (communicated) deadlines, but I am of INTERNAL ones. 3-6 months, with some strong boundaries in place which we can discuss, might be a good range.
I'm trying to get the books, too trusting, but we are on a trip camping with the inlaws for a week. We go every year and its a good time for us to be together.
no worries, WS! actually this camping trip when you are all together is a great time to practice the rules that 25MLC posted. this will be sufficient for a start, and you can read either or both of the DB/DR books when you get home.
be patient, as 25MLC & Starsky point out, this will take time. but there is light *for you* at the end of the tunnel if you slow down, take a deep breath, and play your cards right.
we are all here cheering for you and your marriage! wishing you best of luck!
Well, I'm back from the trip. It was so difficult, as she was texting and calling him all week. I spent the whole week trying to 180 her and ignore her actions. I kept messing up, asking about our future, getting her a book, getting depresssed and giving her the silence treatment. But, I did not lose my temper and I did a good job much of the time.
Starsky309, you are correct on the type of person I am the pleaser type of person. I always go out of the way to try and make it better for my family. I always thought that was how to show your love, but it doesn't seem to matter to her. I just wanted us to be happy, but I guess I did it wrong. The kids are 8 and 12, and they don't know about this. I'm trying my best to keep them unaware, but my 12 year old is pretty smart and may be aware something is going on.
Tonight I blew it though. She came home late after going to walk and I accused her of calling him. She got mad at me, but I backed off immediately and at least got into a normal conversation with her, laughing and talking about good stuff. Still, I lost a lot of work losing it like that.
I was able to get the DR book over the weekend, when I could get to a bookstore. I'm reading through the infidelity section, as well as the rest of it. I'm thinking of trying for six months to see if I can save our marriage before trying the silent treatment. I don't know if I can do it, but I can try.
Thanks for all the support.
________________________ Me: 42 H: 46 Married 14 years 2 kids 8,12 Still together with WW, hoping for R
____________________________________ Me: 42 WW: 46 Married: 14y D-Day: 5/18/2012 D 12, S 8 Status: In my room, but A Continues
). I see it in statements like this: