Found it. Just change the gender, as appropriate. This was probably the SINGLE BEST EXPLANATION on boundaries that I've ever read:
Think about boundaries like this:
Boundaries are not about controlling the other person, because boundaries are about drawing "circles" around *you* and determining what you will and won't allow inside that circle.
Your WxH can do whatever he wants OUTSIDE that circle. You are not telling him what to do.
But you will only let into that circle people who treat you with respect.
He's free to go on treating you with disrespect, but you won't know about it because he'll be outside your circle. He's free to go on and draw his own boundaries of no expectations and no responsibilities, outside your circle.
He can do WHATEVER he wants. He's a free person, free to make WHATEVER choices he wants.
BUT SO ARE YOU, and you are free to choose who to allow within your circle.
That's all. Not about trying to control him at all. Tell him he's totally free. He has the WHOLE WORLD, outside your circle, to go and do whatever he wants.
If he's saying you have to let him into your circle no matter what, then THAT is about HIM controlling YOU.
Wow 25 again you disregard advice about stopping ML when there is another person involved.
STD's are real. They have life long affects. This is reality. Though you chose again and again to counter this advice.
This is someone's healthy and well being your tossing out the window.
As for this is DB-ing.
DB-ing is about gaining self respect so one is strong enough to bust the divorce.
Enabling a walk away by being a door mat has nothing to do with DB'ing.
REREAD MY POST DID I SAY LEAVE.
NO
I said do not tolerate crap behavior. An enabled wife such as his will build more and more resentment with the disregard for his feelings and his families feelings. It escalates. So he either stands up now for himself and his children or he does it in three months to a year later when he has had enough.
You know this by being on this forum for 6 years.
And yes I have read the books. I understand it. I know its strengths and its weaknesses.
So instead of attacking my post.
Post how you would handle the situation.
as DB-ing advice and all that.
"An enabled wife such as his will build more and more resentment with the disregard for his feelings and his families feelings"
With each disrespect, with each lie, with each affairious action she is building up an ego on her power side. It does not release easily. Add ontop of it oxytocin and you have a drug more powerful than heroin. It's now being too nice can get you hurt even worse, and there is really nothing that you can do. Once they start that monster up on you, you can pretty much put them out if you have means to do so. IE: "Well if your going to cheat, have HIM take care of you".
I hope you guys catch this. It's the compounding of building an EGO that doesn't have LBS in it, AND the effects of oxytocin.
After the party, she called to say we should all go to the pool. I could hear the OM in the background. We went to our town center afterwards, and she was trying to text him, while we were there, while I was not looking. I walked up to her and told her I could no longer tolerate her texting him while we were out as a family. She was upset, but she went to the bathroom, I guess to continue. Then she stayed off the phone for the rest of the evening.
GREAT JOB enforcing this boundary, WS!
Starsky
Good work WS.
A huge step forward. One of the most important first steps.
WS I do understand forgiveness but I also understand the difference between forgiveness and excusing.
Flowers always make people better, happier, and more helpful; they are sunshine, food and medicine for the soul. unconditional love is awesome!
and if you insist that only a dangerous fool would continue to make love
then tell that to Vernetta my DB coach. She's the one I quoted. She said
"That's an intensely personal decision and don't let anyone decide it for you."
At the time my neighbor suggested I "cut my h off" b/c he had left the home...but it didn't feel right or loving to me although I admit I had a lot of mixed feelings.
That's why I had to discuss it with my DB coach and my MC.
Can't you see any difference between a man who dates a hooker, or 234 of them, and a WAS who dates one person whom they may have believed/known to be married or celebate, for years?
Sure, you can still get tested if you want -b/c there is always SOME risk, but one size does not fit all.
I think the dogmatic approach Chatter suggests, and the tone, is not keeping the road home paved and smooth...but creating an obstacle course of punitive statements and challenges that are NOT designed to do anything but shame someone. That won't last as a way or restoring a marriage.
TO ME, the approach does not sound like DBing. I don't believe you care if it is.
No offense, I just think you're presenting an alternative and maybe that's fine.
But this is DBing, so admit when you are going off on your own, and don't mock me when I quote what I learned from the sources at Div Busting. I stand by Vernetta's comments and adopt them as my own.
ALSO- personally, I know for a fact that making love can help a couple feel connected and can HELP lead to reconciling and that
cutting someone off, sexually, is often a symptom of other problems and no one misses the crossed arms of a judgemental spouse.
I also know 2 women who've gotten STDs from their partners.
I'm not a fool "recklessly advising sex with a whorish spouse" (GET TESTED IF YOU WANT)
but I'm also not so dogmatic to assume only my way is right; nor do I use the "safety concerns" or "teach them a lesson" to disguise a vindictive approach...
It may make the LBSer feel better and self righteous, in the moment,
but it will rarely lead to a lasting, restored marriage.
I still think that's a goal here. Save yourself, and hopefully, save your marriage. Put aside your ego and lose the anger.
Distinguish between self respect and false pride, (which I think Starsky showed in his distinctions between boundaries and ultimatums). It's hard to do, but mandatory.
OH AND BTW I said nothing here that I did not first hear from my DB coach.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
and CB - I understand that your advice might make WS feel good at the time, and feel that he is "not taking any nonsense". but I cannot see it having any positive *longterm* effect on their marriage.
Originally Posted By: chatterbug
If she wants to act like a teenage girl then you will treat her as one.
And with her not coming home to swim with the kids....
You go to her first and you say.
You will now go to the kitchen and apologize for standing up two very disappointed children. ...
Wife. You are the one who did not meet their commitment. You own this. You apologize.
so treating her as a teenager is going to make her leave OM? it will probably make her run to him more! because OM makes her feel good, and her husband makes her feel lousy.
in fact, I can't see this type of treatment working with teenagers either for any type of misbehavior. talking down to them, ordering them around - that is not what will bring cooperation.
and here we are not talking about parent-to-child but one spouse to another, and talking down to her is not going to make her cooperate - it will make her resentful.
Starsky's advice about boundaries vs ultimatums, and 25mlc's advice in general, makes a lot more sense in the long run, especially if the goal is to induce her to leave OM and rebuild the marriage.
DB is not about *forcing* the spouse to cooperate. it is about making yourself the better choice.
and if you insist that only a dangerous fool would continue to make love
then tell that to Vernetta my DB coach. She's the one I quoted. She said
"That's an intensely personal decision and don't let anyone decide it for you."
At the time my neighbor suggested I "cut my h off" b/c he had left the home...but it didn't feel right or loving to me although I admit I had a lot of mixed feelings.
That's why I had to discuss it with my DB coach and my MC.
Can't you see any difference between a man who dates a hooker, or 234 of them, and a WAS who dates one person whom they may have believed/known to be married or celebate, for years?
Sure, you can still get tested if you want -b/c there is always SOME risk, but one size does not fit all.
I think the dogmatic approach Chatter suggests, and the tone, is not keeping the road home paved and smooth...but creating an obstacle course of punitive statements and challenges that are NOT designed to do anything but shame someone. That won't last as a way or restoring a marriage.
TO ME, the approach does not sound like DBing. I don't believe you care if it is.
No offense, I just think you're presenting an alternative and maybe that's fine.
But this is DBing, so admit when you are going off on your own, and don't mock me when I quote what I learned from the sources at Div Busting. I stand by Vernetta's comments and adopt them as my own.
ALSO- personally, I know for a fact that making love can help a couple feel connected and can HELP lead to reconciling and that
cutting someone off, sexually, is often a symptom of other problems and no one misses the crossed arms of a judgemental spouse.
I also know 2 women who've gotten STDs from their partners.
I'm not a fool "recklessly advising sex with a whorish spouse" (GET TESTED IF YOU WANT)
but I'm also not so dogmatic to assume only my way is right; nor do I use the "safety concerns" or "teach them a lesson" to disguise a vindictive approach...
It may make the LBSer feel better and self righteous, in the moment,
but it will rarely lead to a lasting, restored marriage.
I still think that's a goal here. Save yourself, and hopefully, save your marriage. Put aside your ego and lose the anger.
Distinguish between self respect and false pride, (which I think Starsky showed in his distinctions between boundaries and ultimatums). It's hard to do, but mandatory.
OH AND BTW I said nothing here that I did not first hear from my DB coach.
If a DB coach recommends continuing to have unprotected sex with a spouse known to be in an active affair, then I guess all I can say is that I strongly disagree.
As of right now, we are not having sex. Unfortunately, this whole affair has made it very hard for me to perform :-<. Its pushing her to the OM, but I don't know what to do about it. I've never had this happen before, ever. She is off with him all the time now, that I feel I'm just the baby sitter. And in Virginia, if you have sex with your partner, it is considered forgiveness, and the whole affair is forgiven, up to that date. So that weighs on my mind as well.
On top of this, because of her work schedule, she has the afternoon free while I have to work until 6pm. They get together every afternoon since they have the same work schedule. I don't know if I can ever compete with that, unless I could work at the same place. It will always be her temptation to be with him while I'm working. And she has made it clear she will not leave that job, as it has a lot of security. She practically cannot get fired.
With these problems in play, I don't know if I can be the better man.
____________________________________ Me: 42 WW: 46 Married: 14y D-Day: 5/18/2012 D 12, S 8 Status: In my room, but A Continues
