Thread #8 - It's time.

[Navyguy]

Time for a new thread. The last few weeks have been pretty brutal. A potential OM, drinking, and too many "talks" to count.

W and I had our MC session today. The C seems like a good fit. She was very blunt and to the point. She interviewed W first, then me, then talked to both of us.

From what I gathered, W told C that she's done (no surprise there). Surprisingly, W also talked about her drinking and some of her childhood issues.

My talk with C was pretty tough. I told her the story of how W and I met, then we got right into where we are today an what the unresolved issues are that I think W and I have. They are: her refusal to forgive my past slip-ups, W treating me like S***, and me "expecting" things of W. Those are most of what we argue about these days.

Then C brought us both into the room and told us what she had gathered:

- My actions in the past really hurt W.
- W and I both feel like we are not being listened to by one another.
- W is DONE. I am scared, W is scared.
- W has no respect for me or our M. Told W that what she's been doing this entire time is BS, and that I don't deserve it.
- W can't say she's done, and yet stay in the same house as me. That is also BS.
- I am not much more than a paycheck to W...and for her to allow that to continue is extremely disrespectful.
- W and I are both good people.
- C did not beat W up on her drinking today, but she definitely is aware of the problem.
- W and I can successfully build a R that will benefit our kids. One that has and will teach them mutual respect and caring. But not when we are in the same house.
- C does not want to try to fix our marriage. She thinks it is pointless to try given W's position.
- C would like to help us achieve the separation we need and help us talk through the logistics of it. She also wants to help us with our unresolved issues. She also said we're welcome to go get a 2nd opinion on this. I don't think I need one, because she didn't say a single thing that I haven't been told dozens of times on here.
- C left the door open for working on the M, but W would have to choose to do so. But, she said its either time to "try to fish this turd out or flush it down". Like I said, she was blunt.


W and I talked briefly afterwards. We both appreciated the C's bluntness, and I think we both knew she was right on almost all counts. W then asked for some time to process things before we discuss our next steps. She is in Ohio for the next 5 days, so that should give her plenty of time to process.

I feel ok about the session. I am still very sad about my M being done and it was hard to hear the C come to that conclusion so quickly. But, I also have a small sense of relief, as I think we took the first real step toward resolving this sitch today...for better or worse.

[Navyguy]

25, to answer from the prev. thread, EE is next week.

[unbidden]

I am interested in EE too. Let me know how it goes for you. 25, is it like EST or Landmark Forum"

[greenblue90]

Navy
I really wish it had been you that delivered a lot of those statements to your W. Thats ok though they've been said and it's almost just as good if you take ownership of those statements.

Based on what she knows you might consider IC with her to find out why you stuck out this long with someone who treated you like that. From previous comments I think you have an inclination, but I think she may help you out.

The following describes me; but if it fits go with it. I was terrified of losing W, I didn't think I could do any better. I thought that was a good as it got for me. So I always bent over backwards for her, if she was mad I did all I could to apologize.

Now i can't explain it, but constantly over apologizing, keeps the offended party from moving on. It's hard to explain. You cant be totally callous, but overly apologizing just keeps reopening the wound, and the other person can't move on. They get stuck in victim mode.

I like you have made some pretty bad mistakes. My W has had a hard time letting them go. Unfortunately when that happens it slowly poisons your marriage. The key of course is for them to allow themselves to forgive you.

Easier said than done, when someone sees themselves as the grieved party for so long it eventually becomes unforgivable, and no amount of apologizing will do. I think this is where you are.

In order to move forward your W must decide she HAS to forgive you. Yet she's so far gone that IMHO the only way she ever will is if she realizes that by being unforgiving she stands to lose more than to gain.

Here is the status quo:

She can't forgive you, so you become nicer in order to please her. She gains a nice Navy and can keep blaming you for her own unhappiness.

Here is what I think you should be:

She can't learn to forgive, so you stop putting up with her, and she loses her marriage, the father of her children, the attention of a loving husband, and stability.

She may realize she doesn't want to throw it all away over a grudge, she may not.

Either way it sounds like your counselor has a good plan, she's in essence holding your W accountable.

Don't be surprised if your W changes her mind.

[scaredsilly]

"Now i can't explain it, but constantly over apologizing, keeps the offended party from moving on. It's hard to explain. You cant be totally callous, but overly apologizing just keeps reopening the wound, and the other person can't move on. They get stuck in victim mode."


GB, OMG! THIS is a major dynamic in my r with my H. i need to stop this, too. thank you so much for pointing this out.

navy, i guess we just need to take the attitude that the past is the past and we are done apologizing for it and for every little crappy thing from now on. relationships have issues and differences to settle. i will no longer be responsible for my H's happiness and be the blame for his unhappiness.

thanks, GB.

[JustStunned]

Navy, When I read your post I applauded your C and what she surmised from her interviews. I believe your W needed to hear that, I believe you needed to hear that. Some people respond better to hearing frank critiques from neutral third parties. IMO opinion that is one of the benefits of this forum.

Perhaps she will take what has been said, look deep within, and begin to affect change, perhaps not. Either way it is not your kit to carry. It is her journey to take carrying her own deuce gear.

Go and do the work at EE. Be present and focus at the workshop. Let this noise fall away into the background as much as possible. It isn’t going away. It’ll be waiting to be dealt with when you get back and can afford to focus upon it.

From my perspective GB’s point about overly apologizing is spot on.

[Denver_2010]

I'm sorry to hear that things have not gotten any better for you Navy. You have fought valiantly for your M. You should be proud of your efforts, and proud of what you have learned throughout this process.

Denver

[Navyguy]

GB, thanks for the post. I agree...C directly told W that her behavior is crap and it has to stop. She is free to leave, but she can't keep treating me like crap. While it wouldn't surprise me if W changes her mind, I think the chance is still pretty low.

JS, as hard as it was to hear, I was also happy with the C's read on things. I think she hit the nail right on the head. I can't wait for EE...if it's even 1/10th as good as it sounds it should be a great experience.

Denver. Denver. Denver. Thanks for the support. I couldn't be happier for you right now. Soooo glad to hear things are headed in the right direction for you. I think it's getting close to Casa Bonita time.

Things are ok here. My parents are in town while W is in Ohio. We have been having a good time. W hasnt tried to contact us once in the past 3 days...not even to talk to our kids. Pretty lame if you ask me....can't say I'm surprised though.

[Starsky309]

What a horrible mother.


Starsky

[Navyguy]

Starsky, I don't know if I'd go that far...but my mom has made a few comments about how it looks like W must do absolutely nothing around the house all day.

Debating whether or not I or the kids should call W. Funny thing is they haven't even asked to talk to her.