Thread #8 - It's time.

[25yearsmlc]

Thanks for the posts everyone. Still just trying to be W's friend here.

EE starts tomorrow. I will try to post about it while I'm there, but I might not be able to...it is a busy weekend.

Navy, I'd bet A LOT of money that

You will NOT be able to post about EE during the weekend b/c you'll be BUSY and processing, and they'll probably ask you not to post until it's over.

Remember, there is a process and structure to it.

I'm happy for you.

Looking forward to what you have to say when the Essential Experience workshop is all said and done - but in a way, it's really when your life of clarity and exercising choice, truly begins.

My guess is you'll be VERY tired on Monday...If you can, take that day off- or at least expect a LATE morning, b/c it's truly exhausting.

Wish I'd told you that before...sorry!


I hadn't told W why I was going to Philly this weekend, but she asked last night, so I showed her a little bit about EE...she seemed somewhat interested in it.


well, ^^^ that's "somewhat" nice. EE Is for YOU of course. Would she benefit by going? Oh yeah, sure...but it means a lot of mirror looking, And NO blaming AND a lot of digging deep...so...

OTOH, once she sees your changes, your inner radiance, she'll want it.

But will she do what it takes to get that? Who knows?

Guess what? NOT YOUR RESPONSIBILITY...she lives her life and YOU live YOURS....

Its just that now you are doing it more openly/overtly. And You will do what it takes to make YOUR LIFE HAPPY.


Had an ok night last night. W asked me how I was holding up, so I was honest with her - crappy. She's feeling about the same as me. We had a positive talk about some pretty deep feelings. Again, W brought up her past. I think she may be starting to draw the link between her past and our problems...but I could be wrong.


you keep mind reading and, let's admit it, HOPING for a breakthrough from her, and sort of seeing one when she makes the most blindingly obvious "insights" and takes 3 ounces of responsibility for how she feels....

Yet note that once she does that

"Again, w brought up her past"...she always reverts back to NOT having to own her life and somehow making it about you.

What I'm saying is that

if and when she's clearly feeling a certain way, a way that means good news for you,

you will know. No guessing will be needed.

Our first appt. with the C to start working out how we're going to do the S is next Tuesday.

Hopefully by then I'll be a changed man.

you will be. Do the work, don't withhold. I'm sending you all my support.

You'll be in good hands. They know what they are doing. Trust it. Trust you.

[greenblue90]

I just wanted to point out that her "suddenly" finding out you are going to a self help retreat probably through her for a loop.

This type of unexpected positive behavior is good for her to see. It shows her YOU are changing for the better. The fact you are going by yourself and didn't ask her to go shows her that you are not as desperate to be with her as she may think.

I haven't been myself, but when you get back I wouldn't talk about it unless she asks specific questions. Let your own "radiance" be the evidence.

If you talk about it may sound like you are trying to convince her and yourself it was worth it.

I don't know why she would, but there's also a chance she may try to test your positive outlook by throwing a lot of drama your way. From what you have stated she needs you as an escape goat to blame her problems. A happy Navy could be a Navy she can't blame anymore. Just be careful if she starts fights out of nowhere.

Either way you are making good progress, I know it just doesn't seem like it. Personally I still believe there is a chance your W will wake up out of it, unfortunately IMHO it just won't happen until it is at least nearly too late.

[Denver_2010]

I just wanted to point out that her "suddenly" finding out you are going to a self help retreat probably through her for a loop.

This type of unexpected positive behavior is good for her to see. It shows her YOU are changing for the better. The fact you are going by yourself and didn't ask her to go shows her that you are not as desperate to be with her as she may think.

I haven't been myself, but when you get back I wouldn't talk about it unless she asks specific questions. Let your own "radiance" be the evidence.

If you talk about it may sound like you are trying to convince her and yourself it was worth it.

I don't know why she would, but there's also a chance she may try to test your positive outlook by throwing a lot of drama your way. From what you have stated she needs you as an escape goat to blame her problems. A happy Navy could be a Navy she can't blame anymore. Just be careful if she starts fights out of nowhere.

Either way you are making good progress, I know it just doesn't seem like it. Personally I still believe there is a chance your W will wake up out of it, unfortunately IMHO it just won't happen until it is at least nearly too late.

I agree. I still think that there's a chance here, but it will have to come when the two of you are on the ledge...

[Navyguy]

Well, I'm here. Getting some dinner before EE starts in a hour. See you all on the other side.

[~ kd ~]

keep your eyes, ears and especially... your mind... open...

You'll have a fantastic experience and... who knows...

[vera be fierce]

Congrats on taking this step for yourself. Wishing you the best!

[JustStunned]

To quote Mr Bond in a post long ago "Fair winds and following seas"

[Navyguy]

I'm back. Very tired, but had to come in to work this morning. I will try to post more later today or tomorrow.

[Navyguy]

Well, here I am. Back from EE.

It was an amazing experience - hard, painful, exhausting, but amazing.

I really got a lot out of it...and I did gain clarity on what I need to do. And it is the same thing you all have been telling me for a long time. And what I need to do is to continue toward a respectful separation with W.

I don't have to like it, or be ok with it, but it is what I have to do so I can be happy again and take care of myself.

I know that my M has been dead...for at least 3 years, probably longer. And the entire time, I have been attending it's funeral, crying for it, staring at it, and hoping it would pop back up to life. That's not going to happen. It's time to grab my shovel, and start the process of burying my M.

That starts tomorrow. Our first appt. with our C to discuss how we're going to separate is tomorrow morning. I am not looking forward to it. I will be strong, I will be brave. I will listen to W, and I will be respectful of her...I will be her friend, and I will love her unconditionally...but I am done trying to change her mind.

If we have any R talks, I will listen, I will validate, and I will comfort her.

So, tomorrow I will be on the road to separation. It [censored]...but it's reality.

Still getting lots of confusing signs from W. I called on the way home last night to talk to the kids, but I ended up talking to W for over a half hour. I even asked to talk to the kids, but she kept the conversation going. We haven't talked on the phone that long in ages.

When I got home last night (around 11), W and D6 were still awake (she wanted to wait for me). D6 attacked me as soon as I walked in the door. It was awesome.

I don't know how it started, but W and I ended up on the couch watching olympics. She had gotten into an discussion with a friend about gymnastics, and wanted to show me a video. So I moved over next to her and watched it, and then listened to her talk about gymnastics for about 20 minutes.

Then we went outside. I decided to have a celebratory cigar for completing EE. W and I kept talking about gymnastics and then moved on to other topics. Eventually she asked about EE, and I told her the same thing I wrote above. (hard, exhausting, painful, yet amazing) Then she asked about one of my experiences. I told her about it, and I think she was pretty shocked at what I did. She said she was really happy that I enjoyed it and really happy that I thought it was worthwhile.

Then she started talking about separating. I didn't really want to talk about it...so I just listened to her. She is scared...really scared. The two things she mentioned were finding a job and losing friends.

Then she mentioned how Hawaii BFF hasn't been calling her much anymore. But they talked the other day, and I think W told her we were planning to start figuring out separating. Hawaii BFF told W that she is both of our friends and that W or I could call her anytime and she would be there for us. W feels that Hawaii BFF is distancing herself from W...and then she started crying.

I didn't say anything...I just felt so much sympathy for her. Then I stood up and asked if I could give her a hug. She stood up and we hugged for a long time. I told her that everything was going to be ok.

We sat back down and talked a bit more, but by then it was about 1:45, and I got up to go to bed.

So, tomorrow will be hard. No doubt. And I'm not ok with losing my M. I probably won't be for a long time. And that is ok.

But...I'm moving.

[MrBond]

Good job. It's hard definitely, but something that's been needing to be done for awhile. I would also suggest that you have a comprehensive list of what you expect in terms of a separation. Like who gets what. Time with the kids, etc. Do that first and foremost so that you can get what you want out of this.