Thread #8 - It's time.

[~ kd ~]

Navy, I'm sure you understand your W is likely to panic during the process.

I know you understand you have a path to follow and your W has a path and right now, they are in different directions.

Your road will be tough. Her's... tough as well... I think, more so...

Support her as you can. She MUST travel her path.

The future remains...

un-knowable...

[25yearsmlc]

Navy

((( ))))

You went there seeking clarity, wanting the strength to follow where that clarity lead, and peace w/the choices you had. I think you found all that.

I hope you'll keep in touch w/the supportive folks you met there, whether by phone or @their "re-unions", its SO worth it.


I'm glad you were able to handle your wife's relative lack of interest (thought it was more than I expected from her) as well as you did.

I just recall getting home all those years ago, and wanting to share ALL of it w/my h (the parts I felt I could anyhow) and he was listening and seemed fascinated. To ME he seemed that way at least. Must have been 3 am before I fell asleep...

I'm glad you came HERE and got the excited response we feel for you and I know how proud of you we are for going.

It was a real stretch for you and you got out of your comfort zone and you DID IT.

Have another cigar my friend!! (For me??)

The election has caused the fall workshop to be rescheduled for the spring (I forgot they do that every 4 years) but I have some close friends and family members going in the spring.

SO It's always nice to know another person who would not "normally" attend something like this, but does anyhow--and does the HARD HARD work it takes to change one's life,

and gets it!!


Again, congratulations. I know that was not easy but it sure sounds like it was worth it for you.

YAYAYAYAY!!!

(((( ))))

[~ kd ~]

lol... 25, you don't seem that excited for navy... maybe it's just me...

Just to top up what 25 said about keeping in touch with everyone, it's a really good thing. When I first attended a similar seminar back in '96ish, we didn't really have that available to us. I found that eventually people go their own ways, but that bond we make with our co-students goes on forever...

and...

IDK about EE, but the courses I've been on allow re-audits OR allow one to staff (for free, except travel, room and board, of course)... THAT is also an awesome experience... and you get to re-do some of the work which helps re-enforce...

[25yearsmlc]

lol... 25, you don't seem that excited for navy... maybe it's just me...

of course it's just you!!

Just to top up what 25 said about keeping in touch with everyone, it's a really good thing. When I first attended a similar seminar back in '96ish, we didn't really have that available to us. I found that eventually people go their own ways, but that bond we make with our co-students goes on forever...

and...

IDK about EE, but the courses I've been on allow re-audits OR allow one to staff (for free, except travel, room and board, of course)... THAT is also an awesome experience... and you get to re-do some of the work which helps re-enforce...

2 things--

first, I cannot overemphasize what KD's saying about follow up.

True, as you can attest, a long intense weekend like no other in your life CAN change the course of your life,

but unless you have people around you in your life who'll support you to keep you on your new path, to help you stay on track

(as you also begin to weed out those who don't support you and or who derail you from your new path)

then you may revert to the worn, known path that you want OFF of and the changes in course, will fade...

Today W/online support and the number of EE related support groups (all free) all I can say is echoing KDs' comments--

keep in touch w/those connections. They will always matter but like all r's they take some nourishment. You may have to reach out but hey, that's LIFE!

Second, as you probably know by now, EE does offer you the chance to return and revisit your issues or help others to go through their own process and there's no charge for it & free community housing is available too.

I can't speak for other programs or workshops but I've been to a few others (and I'll go to KDs if he'll go to mine!!!)

but the one variable that he & I have noted with some other workshops, and that bothers me is when a speaker I barely know, or a group, keeps asking for money just a bit too often. (Off the top of my head, I don't recall ever hearing it discussed or asked for at EE, in my 2 decades of attending it...)

ANYHOW-

The folks you met over the weekend and connected with, CARE. We care.

In the rough times ahead - you'll need to remember that...the way past the pain is through it, but remember the beautiful things you learned and saw this weekend too.

Remember the glimpses you got of the good things in your future. It's Not all going to be dark; the hard days/nights will pass.

It's my sincere hope

that you KNOW this. And that you are NOT ALONE...

Stay in touch, with us and with them...

and take good loving care of yourself. It's your job!

[~ kd ~]

I can't speak for other programs or workshops but I've been to a few others (and I'll go to KDs if he'll go to mine!!!)

lol... it's a deal...

[Denver_2010]

I know that my M has been dead...for at least 3 years, probably longer. And the entire time, I have been attending it's funeral, crying for it, staring at it, and hoping it would pop back up to life. That's not going to happen. It's time to grab my shovel, and start the process of burying my M.

That starts tomorrow. Our first appt. with our C to discuss how we're going to separate is tomorrow morning. I am not looking forward to it. I will be strong, I will be brave. I will listen to W, and I will be respectful of her...I will be her friend, and I will love her unconditionally...but I am done trying to change her mind.

If we have any R talks, I will listen, I will validate, and I will comfort her.

Wow Navy. That is growth my friend. There is still a long way to go here Navy. I still think that a physical S can make a huge difference with your sitch. As long as you are not done that is...

I guess that we'll see

[Jack_Three_Beans]

So many different levels of 'done'. ; )

[Denver_2010]

So many different levels of 'done'. ; )

So very true.

[Navyguy]

Well, the C appointment was hard, but I'm doing ok.

We started talking logistics of a separation...C is really pushing to make it happen ASAP. I think her and my IC have talked and they are both working to protect me...so I understand why they are doing it.

At the end, C said that the appt. went better than she thought it would, and she thinks we do have a good chance of separating respectfully and amiciably.

A couple sticking points surfaced though. We briefly discussed custody, and I stated that I'm not good with just seeing the kids every other weekend. W didn't say what she wanted. C said that a 50/50 split is not good for the kids. So that's something to work out. C gave us a book to read about kids and D...it's the Sandcastles book. I've already read most of it and will be giving it to W tonight. It's very hard to read and see the drawings that kids make about D.

The other thing was me being in the Navy and potentially having to move in 2 years. I said that I am not comfortable with that and that I would rather get out of the Navy and move back to Colorado than be away from the kids. W wants to stay in the DC area because of the good job market here. She thinks that if she moves back to CO she'd end up living at her parents house and working for minimum wage. So that's something we're going to have to figure out as well.

C's homework for us was to put together a budget, for W to start her job search, and for us to start figuring out separate housing. So next week we're going to review those things and C also wants to start discussing some of our unresolved issues. Not for the purpose of saving our M, but so we can forgive and not have them hanging over us as we move forward.

Yesterday I started working on a spreadsheet that has our budget and a list of our options with pros and cons of each. The budget wasn't very pretty...if W can get a $15-20/hr job, we're going to be about $2000/mo short of what we need. I showed it to W last night and asked for her input. We'll see if she actually does anything with it.

W and I have been getting along ok. I think the appt. yesterday was tough for her though. I think she thought this process was going to be easy...all sunshine and lollipops. But now she's seeing that I'm not just going to roll over on the important issues. Hopefully she's willing to compromise.

It's funny you guys mention the definition of "done". W has told a few times over the past week or so that she doesn't ever see herself getting to a place where she would be in love with me again. Just trying to drive the point home that she's "done" I guess.

I'm sure I'll get there someday too.

Blah.

[Navyguy]

Tried talking to W last night about some of the details. It didn't go well...and we ended up going down the same old rabbit hole, going back and forth on our past.

Lots of her saying "you should have known better" and me saying "I don't see how I could have known, I never intended to hurt you". We're never going to see eye to eye on the past...I just need to accept that and stop those conversations before they start.

We did agree that our communication problems were the major reason we are where we are today. I asked her that we both really try to communicate throughout this S process...let's at least do it right this time.

W feels like I am not supporting her in getting a job and the separation process. I told her it is really hard for me to do. She specifically brought up the time where I was discouraging when she started talking about jobs. I admitted that was a mistake and that I had already apologized for that. But she kept on hammering me on it...basically telling me that if I loved her then I wouldn't ever say something like that to her. I totally want to support her, but at the same time, I totally don't want our M to end.

She said that if I support her and stay positive through our S it would really help her let go of a lot of her resentment toward me...so I told her I am going to do that. Just listen and be there for her. I know I don't owe her that...but it is what I want to do. This M is ending, and I would like it to end on as a positive note as possible.

Here's what we've worked out logistically so far:

W is going to try for a govt. job that pays in the $40-50K/yr range. I am going to do everything I can to help her with that, because it would greatly benefit both of us for her to get a job with steady hours, job security, good pay, and good benefits. And it would be a huge boost to her self esteem.

We both want a 50/50 split with the kids, despite the counselor saying that it's not good for them.

We both agreed that we are married until we sign final D paperwork, and that a R/sex with someone else prior to that would be cheating. We'll see how that goes. I want to leave the door open to reconciliation...she doesn't see how that could ever happen.

She wants to stay in DC. I am ok with that, and will stay in the Navy, at least for the next 2 years. I can always get out at a later time if they try to force me to move away from the kids.

IC today. Should have plenty to discuss.