Thread #8 - It's time.

[Breakdown]

Navy, I've spent the last few days reading all your threads. Man, you are a pillar of patience. I applaud the effort you've put into this thing. I think you can safely say you've done everything within your power to try to keep this thing together.

Hang in there bud...be good to yourself.

[25yearsmlc]

most of your post again, shows such self awarness...such growth that I commend you

Tried talking to W last night about some of the details. It didn't go well...and we ended up going down the same old rabbit hole, going back and forth on our past.

Lots of her saying "you should have known better" and me saying "I don't see how I could have known, I never intended to hurt you". We're never going to see eye to eye on the past...I just need to accept that and stop those conversations before they start.

So how will you do that, in a simple brief and to the point way, from now on?

We did agree that our communication problems were the major reason we are where we are today. I asked her that we both really try to communicate throughout this S process...let's at least do it right this time.

W feels like I am not supporting her in getting a job and the separation process. I told her it is really hard for me to do. She specifically brought up the time where I was discouraging when she started talking about jobs. I admitted that was a mistake and that I had already apologized for that. But she kept on hammering me on it...


YOU

must stop the hammering...really. Tell her you have to go if htat's what it takes for her to modify HER own inappropriate angry behavior. It gets you two nowhere.


basically telling me that if I loved her then I wouldn't ever say something like that to her. I totally want to support her, but at the same time, I totally don't want our M to end.

blah blah blah....haven't we been thru this same scene a hundred times?

She said that if I support her and stay positive through our S it would really help her let go of a lot of her resentment toward me...

Gee, what would that be like? I mean,

So what? How will that help YOU? What would be different?

You still seem to think SHE has the right to feel angry

and she does NOT!



so I told her I am going to do that. Just listen and be there for her. I know I don't owe her that...but it is what I want to do. This M is ending, and I would like it to end on as a positive note as possible.

do not confuse a "positive note" with being treated badly, again....and taking it...again.


Here's what we've worked out logistically so far:

W is going to try for a govt. job that pays in the $40-50K/yr range. I am going to do everything I can to help her with that, because it would greatly benefit both of us for her to get a job with steady hours, job security, good pay, and good benefits. And it would be a huge boost to her self esteem.

We both want a 50/50 split with the kids, despite the counselor saying that it's not good for them.

that's the first c I've heard say that. Get a 2nd opinion or she may use that one in court...

We both agreed that we are married until we sign final D paperwork, and that a R/sex with someone else prior to that would be cheating.

Um, I think we already know how that will go. What are you going to DO if she lies or breaks that weakly made promse? (Sorry but it sounds weakly made TO ME)


I want to leave the door open to reconciliation...she doesn't see how that could ever happen.

Then stop bringing it up!

Start acting, finally, as if YOU GET IT....she' done-- So IT'S DONE...okay, and guess what?

YOU WILL BE FINE ANYHOW...the only possible way for her to "get it" is if she believes YOU get it

and so far, you kind of still don't. You still have hopes...and that shows and it comes off as neediness to HER

and that makes her run faster and farther....sure wish you could see that.


She wants to stay in DC. I am ok with that, and will stay in the Navy, at least for the next 2 years. I can always get out at a later time if they try to force me to move away from the kids.

IC today. Should have plenty to discuss.

Hang in there. A lot of progress is happening.

How is your support group helping you and ARE YOU availing yourself of them?

[greenblue90]

Agree with all 25 said

Just have to add that the whole "if you loved me" is pure manipulation.

"if you loved you'd fall on a sword for me"

"if you loved me you'd let me keep taking advantage of you"

She knows that by dredging up the past she can get you to defensive and asking for forgiveness, once she has the moral high ground on you she can push you into positions you may not agree with.

The reason she keeps bringing it up, is because it is still an effective strategy for her.

Stop apologizing for the past, next time you feel like using the word sorry in front of her, say this instead, "don't worry, you won't have to deal with this situation soon". Or "boy things are screwed up, good thing we're ending this huh?" smile then step back.

Seriously drama is her weapon so disarm her, laugh, be playful, don't get sucked in anymore.

Think of a pit of despair your W has all sorts of nasty weapons stashed down there which she can club you over the head and win with. Yet in order for her to use them on you she has to either lure you, or outright drag you into the pit. In fact you may even think that you are jumping in the pit to help her get out. That's not how it works though.

She needs to get herself out the pit, and as soon as you giver her a hand she'll just grab you and drag you in. Remember that's the plan. On the other hand if you just keep walking, eventually she'll get tired of waiting for you to fall in there with her, and pull herself out.

After she realizes the strategy doesn't work anymore she'll stop, because it's not fun to sit in the pit of despair by yourself, especially if you can't use it to drag someone else in.

Remmember misery loves company.

[Starsky309]

The reason she keeps bringing it up, is because it is still an effective strategy for her.

Stop apologizing for the past, next time you feel like using the word sorry in front of her, say this instead, "don't worry, you won't have to deal with this situation soon". Or "boy things are screwed up, good thing we're ending this huh?" smile then step back.

Seriously drama is her weapon so disarm her, laugh, be playful, don't get sucked in anymore.

Think of a pit of despair your W has all sorts of nasty weapons stashed down there which she can club you over the head and win with. Yet in order for her to use them on you she has to either lure you, or outright drag you into the pit. In fact you may even think that you are jumping in the pit to help her get out. That's not how it works though.

She needs to get herself out the pit, and as soon as you giver her a hand she'll just grab you and drag you in. Remember that's the plan. On the other hand if you just keep walking, eventually she'll get tired of waiting for you to fall in there with her, and pull herself out.

After she realizes the strategy doesn't work anymore she'll stop, because it's not fun to sit in the pit of despair by yourself, especially if you can't use it to drag someone else in.

Remmember misery loves company.

Awesome, awesome post, GB90. That is as good of a description of the dynamic as I've ever seen on ANY forum. Somebody sticky that sucka!!!


Starsky, who's saving that one in his personal archives

[Navyguy]

Breakdown - Thanks. Although sometimes I wonder if I am more of a pillar of stubbornness than patience.

25 - Again, you've hit the nail on the head. I can stop the negative conversations before they start by staying positive with W and supporting her - almost like I'm excited for her to go. (which I'll admit, there is a very small, but growing part of me that is). If she does try to drag me into "the pit" as GB put it, I need to walk away. As soon as I sense negativity or blaming, the conversation has to end. As my IC put it, "I am laying down in front of her and asking her to kick me". I also need to remind myself daily that the M is dead, and I am now trying to bury it, not resurrect it.

If I can accomplish these things, I know I'll be good through this process...for her, well, that's her problem.

[25yearsmlc]

^^^^^YES....and again, YES!!!!

[Navyguy]

Last night was a fun one. W brought up our upcoming trip to Tennessee for her family reunion, and that she was surprised that I was going. I asked her if she wanted me to go. She said "I'm not going to tell you not to go". So that went back and forth for awhile and opened up a can of worms...and we started talking about our families...and our histories and all the "horrible" wrongs that have been committed over the years. W was attacking my mom pretty hard over something ridiculous, so I got up and walked inside and went to bed. Then W called my phone from out on the deck and tried to keep it going, but I stopped it pretty quickly. I am SOOO done with this negative crap!!!

W and I had counseling today. It was pretty rough. W got beat up for "dragging her feet" and I got beat up for "deciding things without talking to her".

I didn't go down the road of directly pointing this out...but I feel like I am being forced to make decisions because she's not doing anything proactively and gets upset/angry every time I try to talk to her about things.

I told C about how I had put together a budget and a list of our options with the pros and cons for each, and that I had asked W to provide her input, and she didn't. W got really upset and then pulled out the "Navy discouraged me from getting a job" card. C was sympathetic to her, but then told her to "put her big girl pants on" and put herself out there.

So basically, we both left C's office feeling pretty beat up.

And now I'm left here trying to decide if I want to go on this trip or not. W's family doesn't really know much about what is going on, but W's SIL knows a bit and was surprised to hear I was coming. I want to go and have a good time and enjoy myself and have a vacation (which I'm paying for) with the kids...but I'm sure there will be some awkwardness.

Not sure what to do...but I know I'm not going to ask W again if she wants me to go or not.

[greenblue90]

My first gut reaction. Don't go.

Let her start dealing with the types of situations she will deal with the rest of her life. Stay home and start enjoying yourself. Her family will find out eventually so why avoid it?

Personally I see no win out of you going. Just ask yourself what do you gain?

[Denver_2010]

My first gut reaction. Don't go.

Let her start dealing with the types of situations she will deal with the rest of her life. Stay home and start enjoying yourself. Her family will find out eventually so why avoid it?

Personally I see no win out of you going. Just ask yourself what do you gain?

Absolutely agree. What do you have to gain? Nothing. Start showing your W that you are just as done as she has been.

[Navyguy]

GB/Denver:

I agree completely...the only thing making me want to go at this point is that my kids think I am going and they will be upset if I don't....I also don't want to lie to them and give some BS excuse for why I'm not going.

So I'm weighing that against all the very good reasons not to go. Tough one.