WAS vs. LBS

[lostsoul13]

Marriage isn't just about trying to be better for the other person, its also about forgiveness. Its about letting things slide because that partner isn't perfect.

For example, my W asked me why I don't ever complain about her bad habits. Its because I accepted it for who she is. Ya i want her to break those bad habits but if the bad habits aren't (physical/verbal abuse, negative towards the kids, personal attacks), then those are habits i can live with.

WAS thinks its greener on the other side, but until they can fix their views of relationships, they will never find true happeness, they will eventually find another partner, who they will just settle with because they finally learned how to communicate and accept their new R aren't perfect.

I know of some WAS, who left their S and 5 years later, they pretend to be happy becaues they haven't addressed their weakness on developing a better relationship. The WAS who was truly happy is when their S was physical/verbal abusive, but their new partners still had flaws.

Of course you have some WAS who decide to come back, but their LBS is so damaged by this life event, they don't know how to respond anymore. I am afraid, if my W, snaps out of it. I don't know if the damage she has done will be in mind for the rest of my life. I am afraid she might hurt me again, even if I do become a better man. But I am willing to try it again because I choose her to be my W. If made a choice 15 years ago and I own that responsbility to see it to the end.

I also know if we can get through this and really make it work, our life will be so much better together. Really making it work, doesn't mean just doing the same things again or slightly better. It means open honest communication, forgiveness, compassion, making efforts to spend quality time together.

Crazyville, i haven't read your whole story, but i do know every human being has the ability to make any situation they are in to be happy. You just got to take that step and accept it.

[Soul.Searching]

Okay so how can someone seem happy then claim they haven't been happy for years? To me, it was like he woke up one morning distant and distracted, within a week he was gone. If someone is that unhappy for years, how can they still seem happy?

How can a WAS say that the bad times far outweighed the good and most of it was bad but yet the LBH sees far more good than bad. Feels like H rewrote our history to suit him.

[Crazyville]

Hi Lisa, thanks for dropping in. I've read your posts periodically. It's great of you to step in and share with others.

Okay so how can someone seem happy then claim they haven't been happy for years? To me, it was like he woke up one morning distant and distracted, within a week he was gone. If someone is that unhappy for years, how can they still seem happy?

I suspect that the answer is simply that a whole lot of people can seem like a whole lot of things that they really aren't. eg. a pastor seeming like a very devoted family man and spiritually committed, only to find he has a pornography/affair issue. Or a sexy, ladies' man coming out as gay. It happens all the time. We just assume that we know more because we're the S. It's doesn't help either that as a S, we're already programmed with a list of expectations.

How can a WAS say that the bad times far outweighed the good and most of it was bad but yet the LBH sees far more good than bad. Feels like H rewrote our history to suit him.

I think it's very easy for people that are happy to view other people as being happy as well, either because they don't want to see it because the other person's happiness will dampen theirs, or simply because they aren't really looking. I know I had this in my sitch. My H liked boating and camping. I went along with it, making the best of it, because that's what I would expect from him when we did the things I liked to do. I also probably appeared happy because I just tend to be a happy person. But my interests of floating and biking never happened and were over-ridden with H's interests. My "unhappiness" only became obvious to H when I refused to continue to do his activities with him. It was not, however, a lack of my communicating it to him. His standard response to my complaint was, "I know, but...."

Of course, he sees our past as happier than I see it, because we were doing do things he wanted to do.

[Crazyville]

Of course, he sees our past as happier than I see it, because we were doing do things he wanted to do.

Or better said, his NEEDS were being met but mine were not, so he looks on it as a happy M where I look on it as... well,... not.

[lostsoul13]

Of course, he sees our past as happier than I see it, because we were doing do things he wanted to do.

Or better said, his NEEDS were being met but mine were not, so he looks on it as a happy M where I look on it as... well,... not.

So wouldn't this be poor communication? If he didn't know what your needs are? Do you expect him to just know? Did you ask him once and twice and said forget it? Did he act bored during your needs? Did you explain to him how this makes you happy and you want him to just enjoy the moment?

When you did this, did you tell him in a kind voice, mean voice, or when he was distracted with playing with the kids, watching his favorite sports team, working on something you asked him to do?

Just becuase he doesn't know, doesn't mean the next man you meet, will know what your needs are, if you don't communicate it. If you met another man and continue to do what he wants to do, your enabling him to continue doing it because he thinks....you enjoy it.

My W has a problem, telling me exactly what she enjoys doing. Everything we did as a couple (prior to kids) is things we did, watch movies, go out to eat dinner, go visit family/friends, go for walks, go on vacations. Then Kids happened where everything we did revolved around kids...but somehow over the years that becomes neglecting her needs. Its a failure of communication on both sides. But now my WAS has re-written history to say she doesn't know if we were in love. I have countless of pictures of us being happy, i had her diary, which she allowed me to read, which told me she was madly in love with me. Somewhere along the line, she forgot who she married and wanted more, she wanted the 1st stage of love, where excitement, passion is there (OM comes into play)

I guess if she wants a new H every 2-3 years, she will have that excitement and passion....as a LBS, i love her so much, that i am willing to make sure this never happens again (neglecting her needs) but the problem is, i got no chance against (new, passion, excitement). So i am GAL and when i am ready to make someone else happy, i won't make the same mistake.

nobody wants to have a marriage with no love..not the WAS nor LBS. But running away from your problems, isn't the answer, especially when you have kids.

[Soul.Searching]

Okay, I get that in your case but H and I do have a lot of the same interests. We both love fishing, camping, boating ect and did quite a bit of that as a family. Actually if anything H is the one who always gets his way, it's easier than to listen to the "tantrums" if he doesn't get his own way.

[Soul.Searching]

See this is where I'm confused because if anything, it was the other way around!
He expected his head to be rubbed (Constantly) he expected his back scratched, massages etc. I was the one who looked after the children, done the shopping, cooked dinner, cleaned the house, washed the cloths, whipper snipped and mowed the lawns, plus worked part time. I guess it comes down to perception. Nothing i did was good enough for H, what i cooked, how it was cooked, how id was the car, how id mow tge yard. I felt I did both Of our jobs around here. but all he seen was things not done up to his standards because it wasent exactly how he would have done it! Honestly if anything I should have been the WAW. H had it pretty Darn easy with me.

[keep_going]

Crazyville,

Thanks for your response and sharing your points of view. I am appreciative of your experience and the insight it brings into my own situation.

I've always wondered about this. The "til death do we part" we commit to when we marry is supposed to give us comfort and security that our spouse is going to be there for us for the long haul. But I wonder how many people use that as a crutch and an excuse to not try as hard to please their spouse? The fact is that divorce is always an option for the other person, even when they vowed otherwise. As I said in my previous post, there's a whole lot more to the vows than that. And if one person isn't keep up their end, how can they possibly expect their spouse to do so?

I agree with you that there is the potential of using the vows not so much as an excuse, but as a dangerous road into complacency and inaction. Yet to me, there is more to the vows than just "till death do us part." It's the "for better or for worse, in sickness and in health" part that should keep people from complacency and giving up. At least for me, my vows were a promise to always keep trying no matter what. I always told my H - I cannot promise you that I will love you every day of my life and every minute of it, but I promise you to always try. And I am still holding on to that promise today.

I just don't know what "solvable" means. I think WAS's see it as hopeless. If you saw it as solvable, why didn't it get solved?

I agree there is a difference. As long as you see some potential to find a solution, there is hope.

Why didn't it get solved then? When we were at our worst times, I remember saying to myself "sh!t this suxx and I just don't know what to do anymore or how we are going to fix our problems, but we will need to find a way. Somehow, we have to get over this "hump" and find a way our the other side, because that is what we promised and what M is about. We just have to." At that point, we had tried many things, but we both lacked understanding of a lot of the unresolved and deep issues and dynamics in our R. I know my H tried every day and felt helpless and so did I. So in our frustration we ended up in a constant cycle of complaining about our individual sense of helplessness and just turned to blaming each other.

I don't think any of the above is unsolvable, yet my H thinks it's hopeless. Hence where we are today.

Do you believe you have the tools now if your H came back? And if so, how were you able to get them now but weren't during the M? If not, why perpetuate something that makes both of you unhappy?

I believe the work I have done in the past 20 months and that I continue doing is giving me the tools needed if H came back, yes.

How am I getting these tools?
Well, when someone leaves you after 6 weeks of conceiving a child and 2 weeks of closing escrow in your dream property that pretty much tells you something is terribly wrong. Sure I went through different stages:
anger - how dare he say he doesn't love me now?
denial - he will be back in a couple of days when he cools down
fear - what if he doesn't?
shock and acceptance - wow, he is not only not coming back, but he has found someone else and wants a D. It's not just him in a crisis, I really messed up here.

Yet I knew that the R we had built was real and I wanted to fight to get it back. I finally dropped my self-righteousness and ego and just got down to business. First for my M, but thanks to DBing, I am now doing it for myself because I now believe there is probably less than 1% chance that H and I will reconcile.

Having said that, even if I have the tools now, if H came back he would absolutely have to obtain his own tools to deal with his and our issues and meet me halfway. With my changes I can hope to perhaps motivate him to want to work on this, but I cannot ultimately fix this R on my own.

To his disregarding your efforts because they were unsuccessful, this strikes home with me because that is what I'm accused of. If I had a dollar for every time H said he 'was trying,' I could buy Bill Gates.

I only know how to relate to this by applying it to other relationships or other situations, like co-workers or employees or our children. In every other relationship, people are typically only paid/rewarded if they actually succeed, not because they tried. The best example of this is when someone is trying to lose weight. They say they're trying, then eat half a large pizza for lunch with a large Coke, take the elevator instead of the stairs, and spend their evenings in front of the TV. At the same time, they can't offer up anything they are doing, but we're supposed to give them credit for trying.

I used to have that same expectation of success and receiving back in my M. I now believe that in order to have a chance at a a successful M I have to approach the R pretty much as the one I have with my children. I love them, regardless of if they succeed or not. I love them for their effort and I will love them no matter what. It's not always easy and I am sure they will bring me heartache and disappointment, but I will continue loving them and trying to have a successful R with them until I die. I guess this is unconditional love to me.

I believe I need to approach my M the same way because my H is human and he will not always succeed or meet my expectations and I need to have compassion, empathy and forgiveness.

I also believe now that if we all approached our R with our parents with more empathy and without this expectation of success, many of us would grow up as healthier individuals and bring less baggage to our own M. But that is a topic for another time...

I believe in every relationship, the person that is going to change is the one that is bothered most by the circumstances. Unfortunately, it doesn't even mean that they had the bigger cross to bear, just that they were less willing to continue in the same manner. For a WAS, if they can't get it corrected within the M, then they leave.

I agree with this.
In my case I wonder if perhaps I am the one that is changing the most NOW, while my H is probably bringing a lot of unresolved issues to his R with OW. IDK, I guess time will tell, but I do now see the silver lining in my situation. Without this bomb, I probably would have never looked at myself. Unfortunately it looks like it's just too late for my M.

Again, I'm so glad you said this. What does that mean? That you thought your love would be enough? Enough for what? And what is that belief based on? This idea is foreign to me.

I think what I mean is that I took the R for granted. I felt that our sense of commitment and belief in marriage would keep us equally strong and motivated to always try to work things out. I of course realize this is not the case. Each person has his/her limit and it looks like my H reached his before I did.
I also was extremely naive and believed that we could keep the feelings of the honeymoon period alive indefinitely without any hard work. I really don't know where I got this notion because I have never seen any couple that has modeled this for me. It will sound corny, but I thought our chemistry was so strong, we have A LOT in common, we make each other laugh, we challenge each other intellectually and that we were true soul mates and a couple like few others and that we would survive anything. Boy, was I wrong...

On the other hand, I am not completely pesimistic. I do believe that love is a choice and that we can bring back loving feelings when they have subsided. Unfortunately my H doesn't believe this at all. He thinks love just happens to you and you are powerless to change your feelings, hence why he will not give up his R with OW even if he saw the changes he wanted in me.

I'm curious, do you feel like your R changed greatly when you had children? You had a lot of years together just the two of you before you had kids. I can't help but think that played into it.

It absolutely did. Neither of us was prepared for the reality of three kids in five years, two very demanding and stressful careers and many significant financial obligations living in a city with one of the highest costs of living in the country.

We are both overachievers and we thought we could just do it all.

[Soul.Searching]

Hi Lisa, thanks for dropping in. I've read your posts periodically. It's great of you to step in and share

Thanks CV. I'm not sure how often I make sense these days lol. I don't like fog.

I love hearing your views, not only because your a WAS but also
because you really do make me stop and think about things in a different light.

[Crazyville]

See this is where I'm confused because if anything, it was the other way around!

Sorry, Lisa.7, that would be very confusing. However, if that's true, then you might actually be in a very good spot to get him back. WAS's in that case I believe tend to find the grass was greener at home. Of course, then it's you that gets to decide if you want him back.

I assume he's given you some reasons for his leaving. I'll have to jump to your thread and catch up with your sitch. It doesn't sound like your sitch came about very long ago.