Even though I really do not want to see her or talk to her. Is that normal?
I don't know if it's normal, but I know I'm starting to feel that way as well. I'm getting pretty tired of W always acting like everything is fine and still wanting to do EVERYTHING together. Tuesday she came over to take S9 to scouts but hung around afterwards, Wednesday she came over for Halloween, yesterday we went to dinner for D15's bday, tonight we're going to the game to watch D15 in drill, tomorrow a party for D15. And this is MY week of visitation! I'm getting pretty darned tired of seeing W so much.
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I still love her but the damage has been done. My heart has been broken, stabbed, run over and I do not want to allow myself to be hurt again. Is this real detachment? Or have I lost the love?
I think I'm losing the love. I'm not angry at W or anything, but I'm getting to the point where I'm really questioning if she's worth the effort. Like you, I've been taking stock of everything she's done to me and what would stop her from doing it again? Plus I've addressed the faults I had in the M, but W had just as many if not more and they are totally unaddressed. If we didn't have kids I think I would have moved on already. I don't know, maybe I just feel that way this week because I've OD'd on W, maybe if she wasn't around so much I wouldn't feel like this.
He was constantly slapping my arse and stuff,.. I guess that's just how friends behave?!
ROTFLOL!! Reminds me of my W's comment in MC, the C asked her if I was selfish in sex and she said "Oh no, I just love the sex! In fact I wouldn't mind continuing to have it, I just don't want him to get the wrong idea." We've been having sex 2+ times a week for 25 years, but NOW she doesn't want me to get the wrong idea, LOL!
I didn't send the original post I had written the other night. I decided it might sound as if I was putting some of the LBH's down....and that is never my intention. But it does concern me what I read from time to time. A lot of catch phrases get passed down through the years here, and that's usually okay. But sometimes a newcomer may use it, or receive it, and it's not really beneficial in the way it was originally meant way back when. (I don't know exactly how to word it.) For example, I've seen hundreds of LBH's tell others to be the best friend to the WAW. If that WAW is involved with anyone else...I don't agree that you should try to be her best friend.
The WAW, especially one in an A, does not like you and she sure as heck don't respect you. She has demonstrated that pretty clearly. So why on earth would you try to be her best friend? Maybe MWD even said that in one of her book, I don't remember, but as a former WAW....I just can't agree with that part. The WAW is going to feel disgusted toward a man who is trying to be her best friend when she doesn't even like him. Maybe sometime down the road when feelings aren't as raw as they are now, you might learn to be "friends" of some sort, but best friends? Really? I do agree with trying to be friend--ly. There is a big difference in acting friendly and being best friends.
When I was growing up, you didn't hear people referring to their S as their best friend, like you hear these days. Then one day I get a wedding invitation that said, "Today I Marry My Best Friend". I thought I would throw up. (Just kidding.)
You see, I think married love is in a different category than any other loves (family, friends, etc.), so I don't think of my H as my "friend".....he's my husband! He fills a category that no other person shares. My parents shared my love between them, my kids share my love between them, and my relatives & friends share....but nobody on earth gets my romantic love except for one person...my H. That's why it is such a betrayal when there is an A. Think about it. That type of love is not to be shared and I don't believe you can classify it as friends. That's what most of the WAW's today are telling their LBH whenever he discovers communication with OM. She says, "Oh, we're just friends". Well, that's where so many mess up. It's not appropriate for a woman to have intimate conversations with another man. And, I realize that the workforce places a lot of men & women together, but if you don't have your moral compass working....then it can easily get you into trouble. Am I making sense?
When I was about ready to walk out, I made the statement to my H that if I left I hoped we could be friends. He told me we would never be friends. You see, I reduced him......or was trying to reduce him to the category of friends. He didn't want to be my friend, he wanted to be my husband. And let me tell you, his words got my attention! But this is my thinking about it and I'm sure others have their own opinions.
I also believe that you cannot be "soft" with a WAW. And be careful about how or what you validate, b/c it will quickly cause her to see you as nothing more than kissing up to get her back. You listen with both ears while you look into her eyes, but you don't have to agree or say something somebody on the board said....that totally doesn't sound like something you'd say (and she knows it).
Listen, if you feel wimpy then you can rest assured that's how she thinks of you! If you feel like she treating you like a doormat, it's b/c she is. If she's calling all the shots and you feel like she's your boss, that's b/c you've let her have her way so long that she thinks she is! Letting her have her way is not the way to have peace. Being a man who makes decisions and the leader of the home and having the respect of your W and kids is what gets you peace. Sometimes, it really concerns me how the younger men on here talk about their place in the M and the home. I guess my father's generation really was the greatest generation to live. I don't mean that to be insulting, but it worries me how things have changed in society, marriage, and home. Nobody knows who's suppose to be in charge anymore. I wonder sometimes if after the women's lib movement if everything swung too far the other direction and now men are scared to be men. I hope not b/c that would be disastrous! Maybe that's what has happen in some cases. But here I go venting.
A woman has to respect a man before she can love him romantically. Now, I just given you young men a lost secret, apparently, that should be top of the list on how to get your W's loving feelings back. If you have a WAW, and you do....then it goes double. If she's in an A......more than double. That's why she's where she is today is b/c she doesn't respect you. That's how she's wired. It's different with men. But I believe God made woman the way He did for a reason. It's her nature to be the responder and the man's nature to pursue. That's why you have the natural instincts to pursue your WAW and when we tell you not to chase her......you cry that it's too hard. Why do we tell you not to pursue? Because everything is out of order now. You can't do what was originally designed b/c she no longer respects you and she will reject you for another man. There is no way she'll go back to desiring a man she doesn't respect.
So, instead of trying to be her best friend, I'd suggest you work on being a man she can respect. I dare say that all of you let down on the job somewhere along the way and when she could no longer deal with not feeling anything in her soul....she started looking for something to fill that void. That is when a monster is created.
She's not the girl you married.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Wow Sandi2, this may be the post of the century. You need to write a book on the WAW your knowledge is so correct. My C said the same thing about love. Put your love for your wife in a box and lock it up in the closet. Maybe someday I will get to open this box back open. Maybe...
Thank you for your blunt advise, that's what I need...
ForeverYoung, Thanks for posting, is MMSL worth buying and reading? After reading Sandi2's post yesterday I was thinking I need to do some more reading on this subject. Are there any other books out there for the LBH on becoming strong again?? What about ILYBINILWY is it worth reading?
The other day I remembered a conv I had with X while we were still together. It was about how we fell for each other.
She told me how : One of my traits was that I was independent, I could talk or flirt with girls, but I could also wonder of and do something else. I wasn't rejecting, I just didn't NEED anyone. If they were into me great, if not I didn't really care.
When we broke up I fell apart and got needy. Then I remebered our convo and realized that I have to keep working on my detachment and growing more independant again.
Together for 8,5 years. S2 Interest in OM. She left 29.09.12 b/c we couldn't work things out. No signs of OM, not digging. Living in seperate homes, sharing custody.
I appreciate your kind words. I’m not that wise. I’ve just lived longer than most of you... and hopefully I’ve learned a little bit along the way. If I can help anyone, then that’s why I’m here. I do try to remember to add when it’s my opinion about something.
A couple of books I’ve seen recommended a lot is [edited by dbmod: reference not recommended nor allowed]. But please keep something in mind after you read these type of books, and don't go to extremes the other way. They are supposed to remind you (I believe) what being a man is like. And to clear up misconceptions of what being a nice guy really means. Marriage shouldn’t change you from being a man!
Being manly does not mean being a jerk! If you behave like a jerk when you’re trying to be more manly…..you’ve won nothing but her contempt. No real woman wants anything to do with a jerk.
I hear younger men talk about the girls today going for the bad boy image. I really think it’s b/c they misinterpret that image. Females were born with natural instincts to search for the stronger male who can protect, provide, and be a good father to her children. I doubt very seriously any mother would want her son to grow up to be a “bad boy” like his father. I’ve never know a girl to marry a bad boy that was happy with him staying a bad boy. After M, she wakes up and realizes that he’s either immature, a jerk, a loser, or just plain bad to the bone. Either way, she doesn’t want him in any of those categories and she sets out trying to make a good person out of him. That usually doesn’t work either.
What I’m saying is that a woman wants a man who knows when to be strong as steel and when to be soft as velvet. Pretty tough order, huh? Well, I would think it’s not easy, b/c females are very complex creatures. But if you can learn “how” to show both characteristics, in time I think you’ll determine “when” to use which one. Just don't go over-board either way. Be true to yourself.
Last edited by dbmod; 11/04/1209:39 PM.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
This was such a wonderful post about the WAW. I am in this situation myself. Originally, I took a week of clothes and set out for my parents' house as a cooling down period. What a mistake. Ten weeks later, I am still here. In our M, I controlled everything. I took charge too much. Now, I am so weak, and I understand why she has no respect for me. I have a couple of questions for you, since you said you were a WAW. Our anniversary is this week. Any advice? Also, should I just buck up and go ahead and find my own place? D papers are already filed by her, so we are in the "discovery" process. Any help you can give me would be great.
BD: 8/20/2012 W Files: 8/23/2012 S: 8/25/2012 (I moved out) D Final: 3/5/2013
Hi Grateful. Not being caught up with your thread, I don't know the details, but in most cases I would give this same advice on anniversaries. Based on the fact she's filed for D, my suggestion is to do nothing to suggest any hope to continue this R. Do not give any romantic anniversary card, flowers, or any gift. A WAW sees these things as pressure, pursuing, a means of "begging" and you hoping she'll still come around. So don't do any of those examples. And some LBH's have such a strong desire that they will go ahead and do it....under the disguise that they are improving or doing a 180. But, they're not. They are still desparatly trying to melt her heart....and this won't do it.
Some advise to email or text a thinking of you today message. Really? It's still pursuing. Call it good manners if you want, but she will know exactly what it really is. It will do a lot more....if you won't contact her.
If she's still living in the home and you just feel that you can't get through it without doing something, then I'd very casually ask if she wants to take the kids and you all go out to eat. That's about all I could agree about (without knowing more details)....would be to have a family meal together at a kids-friendly or family-style restaurant and have your children to join both of you...if you have any. It needs to show nothing formal. If no kids, still keep it informal. Formal dinning is often felt or seen by a woman as "romantic".
If you want to get a plain card that doesn't have factory printed poems, and just write a few words that say thanks for the good memories and for our children. But no more than that or it will be pursuing. She needs to feel like it is more of a night to call a truce for a few hours and relax with the family you've shared together. And wait until the end of the meal to give the card to her. Don't wait for any response from her, but start getting everyone ready to leave. I would not bring up the topic of the wedding, M, anniversary, etc., during the meal or any other time.
If your W is really acting like a b!tch, and it's worse this week.....then I'd say to take that as your message to stay away from even having dinner with the family. When the WAW has filed for a D, the last thing she wants (in most cases) is to "celebrate" or put much focus on the M she is leaving. KWIM?
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
