W filed, I think we can make it work - what to do?

[Breakdown]

Another small victory (for me at least) was Friday she went out with some friends and in the past my insecurities would have stressed me out and I'd have a pity party while she was gone that she didn't want to go out with me (I know stupid but I'm being honest). This time I didn't have those thoughts at all, I just played with kids then did a few things around house and had a nice night. In the past I'd wait up for her and start the 20 question game that never went well. I was going hunting with my son the next morning so said screw it and went to bed before she got home. She got home about 11:30 and I think it threw her for a loop that I was asleep. She came in bedroom and made as much noise as she could getting ready for bed. I just laid there and never said a word. Next day I asked how her night was and that was it.

This is great. You are making progress!

Have you spent any time trying to understand your insecurities? Are you addressing them, or only the behavior related to them?

The kids and I are having a great time together and hopefully she's seeing some changes in my behavior. Some are coming pretty natural and others I have to really work at. It's still mind blowing that we don't talk about anything except kids and small talk about her work. Nothing about M and she hasn't asked anything about my life in weeks.

Your changes are for you, not a reaction from your W. At first, she won't trust that they are real (it can take a long long time for them to believe it). And then, she'll probably be mad because you waited so long to make them. It's a process...just keep working on you and try to be patient with your W.

She didn't hear me walk in and I heard her say "maybe that's why we marry idiots".

Take this for what it is and let it slide off your back. More than anything, she is empathizing with her cousin. You have made mistakes, but you are addressing them....most people never do, so take some solace in that.

Humility is a good lesson I've learned from this experience. This ride has me on such an emotional roller coaster, I feel like I've turned into a woman

LOL...this is so funny. I know exactly what you mean. I have become much more in touch with my feelings over the last year or two and I express them, instead of bottling them up. I don't expect my W to do anything about them, but I don't want to build resentment, so I just say "that made me feel x" and go on.

It's such a 180 for me, my W is still struggling with how to react to it. She got so used to me being this hard @sshole, that now when I say something hurt my feelings she's just confused. Part of it for me is trying to teach my kids different than my parents taught me. It's breaking that cycle so my kids don't take the same baggage into their relationships that I did.

Overall, you sound like you are really doing well. Keep it up!

[Spartan]

Not doing good anymore...

So Monday and yesterday we were getting along a little better and she sent several texts yesterday and seemed pleasant. My hopes weren't really up but I was happy that we were talking. She had her codependency group after work so didn't see her for dinner. She ended up getting home 2 hours late without a call or a text which I now think was her ammo to start the fight (yes I bit). I wasn't bothered by her being late because I was busy around the house. I happened to be in kitchen getting water for bed when she got home. I should have just said goodnight because she had a look in her eyes but instead I figured the messages during day were pleasant so I said "How was your group?". With that she went completely off to point I didn't even recognize her. She said she doesn't have to report to me about what she does or how things are, asked if I understood what divorce meant, starting telling me everything that I've done wrong in my life, and blamed me for everything wrong in her life, she even said something that happened before I was around over 20 years ago. She went so far to say that for a while she believed her genetic disease was caused by my poisoning her. It was like nothing I've ever heard or seen. Half way through her rant I said in as calm a voice as possible 'all i asked about was your group for a little small talk, never brought up any of that other stuff'. I remembered the rule to not believe anything she says but I broke a rule by not just walking away; instead near the end when I couldn't take it anymore I called her out on how stupid she sounded and she needs to look in mirror and take some of the blame. I know stupid... I told her I didn't need her telling me again all the things that are wrong with me that I'm well aware of them and accept my responsibility for where we are. All in all it was a very bad night and I didn't sleep at all. I spent night reminding myself of the good things I've done because words sure can hurt from someone you love, even when you know most of it is BS.

This morning her group book was out and I broke another rule by looking at it. I know I suck!!! I admit I was questioning some of the stuff she said and if she believe it was true and I was hoping to find anything in there that said the opposite of what she yelled at me for to preserve some hope. Instead in there she admitted to lying all the time and it being so easy for her she does it automatically with most everyone in her life, said she was a "terrible wife", and admitted to cheating in the past (entire list had 10-12 pretty bad things, many of which I didn't know about). The cheating part is what I don't think I can just get over now that I have even more proof unless she fully admitted it and wanted to work on things which I don't see happening. I can't be a doormat and let her treat me like this now that I know she understands the issues and just doesn't care about me or our family.

We talked today about something with kids sports and I said I wanted to talk about us. I didn't let on to reading book but I did say after last nights talk I wanted to tell the kids soon because I now believe there is no chance for us and I'm done lying about the situation. I also told her I was considering moving out. I've kind of rethought that through the day but I think it would be easier on me to not be around her, kids wouldn't take that well though. I also said that we need to have some boundaries and if she wants to talk then no bringing up past and blaming me for everything. I also told her don't expect me to bring anything up because I'm done. Also said she better stop just expecting me to cover everything because I'm done lying to friends and kids and doing whatever she asks.

I'm so ticked and hurt. From reading books I know a lot of this is 'normal' WAS behavior and I know I handled it pretty badly last night but man it hurts. I'm starting to think it's just not worth it and I'm seeing a lot more bad with her and marriage then good. Maybe I'm starting to rewrite history... Right now I no longer want to work on my marriage. Very sad and depressing 24 hours.

[Spartan]

To end my post I spent the last day and a half thinking more and I've decided I'll never be able to trust her so I'm no longer trying to reconcile the marriage. Spent yesterday with friends who enlightened me to a few other things she's done over the years. One guy said it was killing him not telling me his story but I was always so gung-ho to have a good marriage he didn't want to ruin it. Little disappointed in him but I understand where he was coming from (I doubt I would have believed him anyway because I always gave her the benefit of the doubt...). Just feels like last 20 years of my life were a lie and I'm really worried about my kids. I have a strong family and friend network and will continue to work on myself so I know I'll be fine. I'll also do everything possible to ensure my kids have the best dad they can and pray God watches over them during the other times.

Good luck to all you guys still fighting the fight. I pray that it works out best for each of you.

[tpc1977]

Spartan,
Your wife sounds a lot like mine. The blame part that is. From what I can read off my wife's rants - when it happens - is that it's easier to throw the pain they hold on to so much toward someone else. It lessens the burden for a moment. Unfortunately for them, they throw it at people they are close to. And just as bad, that pain never fully gets released. Then they eventually feel bad for what they've done. It's pretty much a viscous cycle of torment.

My wife left me for a man who has everything she was missing in her life when she was with me.

He allows her to be an addict - if she chooses.

He has money. I am broke now that she lost two good jobs and was out of work for years and the bills pilled on us. Now I'm close to losing my home. She is secure. He told her he was going to give her a lot of money for Christmas shopping. My kids are excited!!! YAY!!!!

He's more laid back and let's her do whatever, whenever. I was more on the ball and wanted her to stay motivated. Continue with NA and get back into nursing.

She told me it was everything she's ever wanted in a relationship. "Ever Wanted!"

He does everything for her. I think some of it is because he feels like he has to. Sort of feeds into her so he won't lose her. That's what I did for years when she first had an affair. It got me here - separated. So good luck to him.

The great thing that came out of all this. My relationship with God. And my relationship with my kids. Now the relationship with my mother. All of which became nonexistent while I buried myself into my marriage while she buried herself into a hole and built up walls around me.

In all the years I poured myself into "us" she never broke down and apologized for the mess and her affair(s). I got blamed for everything. Guilt is one of the heaviest yokes to bare. But one of the toughest to let go of.

Last week I made a mistake and mentioned the house situation to my daughter. I have no one to talk to right now and I was just hurt when I got the letter that we may have to forfeit it. My daughter called her mom, then she called me. She laid into me like I was beating our kid. And it was the most perplexing thing. She didn't come at me with reason, but over and over and over and over all she said was, "How could you?!?" I never got a chance to explain or apologize. She just kept saying it. There was this sound in her voice that seemed to me that she was releasing some inner torment. Finally! Mr. Perfect Dad screwed up and I get belt him good for it.

Then I snapped and gave it all back (I was convicted big time later). I told her all the times she messed up from drugs and job loss and financial pain and wallowing in her pity and her affairs. She came at me with my self absorbed uselessness and desires and how I was never there for her and how it put her in another man's arms. So I decided to go for big air and asked her how could she dare be arrested in front of our kids.

And that was that. Game over. Love lost. Everything I worked for, out. The towel was thrown in and the refs started pulling me off of her.

[Breakdown]

Spartan, I'm sorry things took a turn for the worse, but I actually think you handled things fairly well considering. None of us are perfect, so we're not going to do it perfect every time.

I think the fact that your W is working thru her own baggage is a huge positive. There may be things you aren't aware of, things you aren't happy about, and things that hurt in all of that, but the fact that she is facing them and trying to change really puts you in a far better place than most of the folks here. I would expect it to be a difficult time for her as she faces her own demons and that means, difficult for you as well.

I think it's important to realize that love and trust are choices. You certainly can do these things if you choose to. They may not be easy, but they are do-able.

Hang in there...continue to work on you and be strong for your family.

[sandi2]

That's it? That's all you have in you? Even though you were forgiven by God, and even though the bible says that we have to forgive others......you can't forgive your wife? Yes, you do have an over-sized "ego"......but the word that God used in the bible is not ego.....it's pride!

[25yearsmlc]

gotta agree with Sandi here...as soon as you saw OM, even one from the past, who she had clearly worked through and chose to stay with you even if she's revising the past (they all do and so do we...so are you now, b/c you're hurt)

You say you've "had enough" and "can't forgive", although in truth you know, deep down, you played a role in her being in the arms of OM.

This is your wounded ego talking...and deciding important issues that will have generational affects. Your children AND THEIRS, will suffer for this. Instead you might be able to leave a legacy of committment, forgiveness and redemption.

Instead, you're "Done"...all because of something that isn't even happening NOW.


And one small but possible telling thing,

You are "now" doing 50% of the housework --but she's got a diagnosed illness that prevents her from doing much, and you said you feared sep b/c it'll wear her out. Well...

Why weren't you doing most of it before? Why only half NOW?

Anyhow, if your wounded pride is too much for you to cope with while admitting your pride has been a problem causer

and your temper is still an issue, ("obviously enraged" that she had COFFEE w/OM was not a typical response. My h would never have reacted that way even at his worst.

He'd assume I ran into a guy or was friends with or networking...he knows he's the better choice and I'd be a fool to choose OM so maybe it's his security---and it's attractive, btw ) then you have a lot of things to still work on...

Well you said enough to her for now, that's for sure. I wouldn't move out without FIRST talking to a L so you are protected and not accused of abandonment. And I would NOT bring up the relationship again. Your threats to tell the kids are not going to keep the road home, paved and smooth....but it sounds as if you want to be punitive...right?

It's not your job to teach her a lesson or "show her the consequences" of her behavior...as my DB coach said, "life/God does that for them, not us"...

I'm not saying to lie for her but you can protect your kids and your w. NO ONE NEED know of her past indiscretions. You want her to take your list of flaws, add some of her own about you and then read it to them?? Oh, why not?


In MY own journal I wrote many things in 2005 that I believed THEN...and do not now believe. Some things I sort of believed but was just venting. You cannot hold onto her venting in her private diary...AND nothing is written in stone. We change and so do our feelings.

this is exacly why one of the rules is NOT TO SNOOP!!! It hurt your cause.

You kept pushing her for R talk instead of welcoming her silence. When you pushed for a good answer, instead of letting her come around, you cornered her into a decision you did NOT want...hence us telling you to back off. Ultimatums rarely work and then we're stuck with following through on what we DID NOT want...

You need to DB for real and THEN assess...

fwiw, I have 2 family members who divorced and remarried a few years later. But they changed THEMSELVES and not with the idea of reconciling...but with the idea of GAL and being happier people...which they were. and then they were better partners. But yes it happens. I'm hoping you'll really DB and give her some space and take some yourself, I found being apart helped me not lose my temper so much. And that helped us keep some civility which lead to us being relaxed in short spurts at first...and then to build on those times.

Stick to your plan of working on your flaws only & without regard to HERS so that no matter what, YOU do not end up here again in your next r...learn from your mistakes, be the best man YOU can be...

become a man only a fool would leave. And once you KNOW you have done that, then leave the results up to God and be at peace.

[leopoldstotch]

25yearsmlc can you check out my thread when you get a chance? Thx.
Spartan don't be so quick to give up. You are angry and hurting right now and thats what you are acting from. Step back and take a deep breath and work on your issues. If your W comes at you again tell her you will talk to her when she is calm then walk away go for a ride or whatever to remove yourself from the situation.

[Spartan]

Wow, thanks for the constructive criticism . I mean it, sometimes I need a swift kick to the backside.

I came back here to say I'm still around and trying to make it work even with the couple day back slide. Maybe the backslide is what I needed because the last few days I've really DB'd. I know it likely ruined any good that I did the previous couple weeks though. I feel almost indifferent to her right now and have no desire to talk about R or how she's feeling or what she's doing. I've also embraced the GAL and over last weekend went hunting twice, went to dinner with buddy, and saw a movie. My kids and I are still having a blast. We've always been close but now it just seems like it's on a new level of fun. I don't get it???

W and I did talk a little yesterday (she initiated it) and decided that neither of us are moving out before the house sells and we wouldn't put it on market until after holidays. We also decided to not tell the kids until we need to which will be sometime next year. FWIW, at start of conversation, before we decided not to tell them now, I told her we shouldn't go into any details about other person and if asked we could BOTH tell them about our issues/ reasons in our own words. I told her if asked I would tell them that I didn't treat their mom as good as I should have, I didn't build her up, and I didn't give her freedom (some toned down age appropriate version of that). I'm pretty open with kids and I'd have no issue knocking myself off the pedestal a little and telling them their dad isn't perfect. When I'm not angry venting on here believe me that I want no harm to come to my W's relationship with our kids and when rubber hits the road I wouldn't do anything to hurt that. In fact through this process my 7 year old has been making comments about why mom isn't around as much or why she's not being as nice to them and I've been defending my W and building her up. And before I get yelled at for that it was always my D bringing it up, I never talk down about my W with the kids. My guess is they'll be surprised when I tell them I haven't treated mom good because that's not what they see and I think my W would agree to that if she were on here. We've rarely had disagreements while kids were around and I'm guessing they'll be in complete shock. They think we're the perfect church going family .

25yearsmic - I've said numerous times I admit my pride is an issue and I am working on it. Believe me I know I screwed up when I initially confronted her. I was really hurting that day because she blatantly lied about it that morning and there are a lot of unresolved issues like that from our past. I know I need to stop worrying about it and give her space to figure her things out and for the most part I've tried, minus the couple incidents on here which I deeply regret... I also do know a big part of her doing things is my fault for how I reacted/ treated her in the past and I'm trying to make changes in my life to limit those occurrences. I'm also truly trying to forgive her and I know very well what the Bible says about forgiving. Most everyone that knows the situation, many friends of my wife, have privately commented to me that I've been an inspiration to them in their walk and they aren't sure they could do what I've been doing and they are seeing the situation first hand. I know I'm no saint and don't really feel like an inspiration. Believe me, I take full responsibility for my actions and it kills me that I still screw up. With that I'd be lying if I said it's not hard staying the course when she has never shown any remorse or admitted to doing anything wrong. She's never forgiven me for anything I've done and repeatedly brings up the past and points out my issues. I know I have to stop thinking that way but it can be tough, especially with all the added stress of the situation. I just read some of my posts and you guys get mostly the venting on here, the majority of the time I'm working on my own stuff and she's doing her thing. I just need to make the 'majority of the time' the 'all the time'...

I'm also keeping a journal and I already don't believe some of the things I've written just a few weeks ago. I can believe that 5 years from now that a lot of it will sound like BS so I get your point on what she wrote. I'm done snooping!

I don't remember what I wrote regarding housework but it sounds like I didn't say it correctly. I've never done less then 50% with average probably around 66% and many weeks when her illness flared up I was doing all of it, including everything for kids (her illness has good times and bad times, thankfully more good over last year). Most of the time I was fine doing it but I admit to sometimes feeling sorry for myself because she rarely said thanks or showed appreciation. I never said anything but I'm sure my body language told the story which I regret. What I meant by the 'now doing half' comment was that one of her love languages is acts of service so my initial reaction to her filing is I needed to start doing even more around the house without being asked (stupid little things that she would need to remind me to do I started just doing) and I was planning to stop that and only do "50%". To tell the truth I didn't really change anything though, the little things are so easy to do I just kept doing them. I also still do meals 4-5 days a week and do most the clean-up everyday. I've found that I now want to help out and I haven't felt sorry for myself and I'm not looking for gratitude.

I've started to read 'Courage to Trust' because trust, like love, is a choice. It doesn't come natural to me and I know it's something I struggle with and must improve on for either this or my next relationship. A lot of our issues have been rooted in both our trust issues from our pasts. I can't make her trust me but as someone on here said I can make the choice to start the journey to trusting her.

I know I kind of defended myself a little but I am truly grateful for the feedback and sometimes tough love . I'm also not giving up. I have at least 142 days left until the divorce can be final, longer if I can stall it. I'll work on myself and pray.

[Spartan]

Update from last night...

When I got home from work I asked her if we could talk because something was bothering me and I needed to tell her. She looked ready for a fight. I told her I was sorry for my attitude and comments at the end of last week. I told her I've been under a lot of stress with divorce, work, and extra holiday stuff I get roped into and I regretfully took it out on her. I didn't say anything else. She seemed responsive and her eyes softened a little and we actually talked for a couple minutes (just small talk that she started). I followed it up by asking her if she wanted to join the kids and I for Thanksgiving, she accepted. She tried to hide it but I could see she was happy to not have to spend holiday alone. Later in the night she came up to me and said maybe we could also all go to the parade or a movie. We watched TV as a family for first time in weeks. She even included me in her prayer that we do with kids before bed every night.

I'm not sure if these were the correct 'DB' things to do but I needed to do it for me because it was what I wanted to do and made me feel better because I was feeling bad about my attitude last week. I didn't come across as needy or even elude that I cared either way (even though I did). I'm getting so much advice that my head is spinning. Pass or fail, I'm realizing I have to do what's in my heart or everything feels off and doing it for wrong reasons (i.e. making someone spend holiday alone or being an a$$ to help me detach is just not who I am anymore).