Heavy Lifting Solo

[Breakdown]

I decided to start a new thread here based on where I'm at and will start journaling here instead of my bootcamp thread. Most of the time I consider it a "happy limbo" but we still have the occasional argument that results in her saying she wants D.

Original Thread:

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...606#Post2250606

Bootcamp Thread:

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2300360&page=1

Summary of where we are:

Married 15 yrs, 5 kids (one mine before marriage). BD 2/2011 and reiterated every time we have an argument since, as recently as a week ago. Multiple EAs on W's side, one where she continues to have regular contact.

I've been working on insecurity, controlling behavior, being judgmental, being light hearted and fun and having a stronger faith. I've made a lot of progress, but I have more to go.

W moved out in July for 1 week and magically became the model W/M after moving back in. Day to day things are mostly awesome....lots of time together, as family and one on one, great sex life, just booked a family cruise vacation for Dec, etc. However, W refuses to commit to M, or work on any issues....the "heavy lifting" I referred to in my title. At the first sign of conflict, W runs straight to "I want a D."

I got notice of pre-conference in Oct (set for Jan), and saw that W brought home the D papers the other day after an argument (though she has not given them to me yet). I assume I will get them during the next argument (so I plan on not having one! lol)

My issues:

- Continued contact with OM. I recently set a boundary of not wanting to hear about OM at all and her not talking to OM in our house. She agreed, but we'll see how that goes.
- W still wants D and believes that she can't truly be herself unless she has it

W's issues:

- A lot of resentment for first 10 years of M and resistant to forgive
- Believes people can't change (and therefore, my changes aren't real)
- Afraid of being disappointed again, so resistant to becoming vunerable
- Believes once she makes a decision she has to stick with it

My current plan:

- Enjoy next couple of months to their fullest
- Continue to focus on my issues and self discovery
- Maintain boundary regarding OM
- Pick up new hobby

[AnotherStander]

W moved out in July for 1 week and magically became the model W/M after moving back in.

Wow, wouldn't it be great if that's what always happened when spouses walk, LOL! Did she ever tell you what happened in that week that turned her around?

Day to day things are mostly awesome....lots of time together, as family and one on one, great sex life, just booked a family cruise vacation for Dec, etc. However, W refuses to commit to M, or work on any issues....the "heavy lifting" I referred to in my title. At the first sign of conflict, W runs straight to "I want a D."

So bizarre. That's similar to my W, after BD but before she left we were working on things- getting along fantastic, great sex (according to her), fun activities both together and with the kids. But she kept saying over and over again that she saw no future in our M and she needed to leave. Baffling.

I assume I will get them during the next argument (so I plan on not having one! lol)

Haha! Or just make sure the argument isn't at home

[Denver_2010]

Hmmmm...

Have you thought about 'No OM whatsoever' as your boundary?

[Breakdown]

Did she ever tell you what happened in that week that turned her around?

If I go back and read thru the timing, I think it was when I stopped applying any pressure at all. I stopped asking when she'd be home or if she was joining us for dinner...I just stopped worrying about it. Honestly, I think it has more to do with her wanting "to get along" for the time being than anything else.

So bizarre. That's similar to my W, after BD but before she left we were working on things- getting along fantastic, great sex (according to her), fun activities both together and with the kids. But she kept saying over and over again that she saw no future in our M and she needed to leave. Baffling.

I know right?! I think the last three months have probably been the best of our M, even with all the issues, but she's still adamant we're getting D.

Hmmmm...

Have you thought about 'No OM whatsoever' as your boundary?

Yep....thought about it and even told her a few months ago that I would not be in a M where he was involved in any shape or form. She works with him so went on and on about not being able to disengage completely overnight, to which I said "Yes, I understand that, but you can start working on a plan to disengage from him over the next few months."

If I allow myself to mind read, I would say in her mind she knows it's a no-go for me, but since she hasn't committed to our M, she doesn't have to abide by it. And I think she sees it as me trying to control the situation, which is an issue of hers (rightfully so given my past behavior).

[Denver_2010]

Hmmmm...

Have you thought about 'No OM whatsoever' as your boundary?

Yep....thought about it and even told her a few months ago that I would not be in a M where he was involved in any shape or form. She works with him so went on and on about not being able to disengage completely overnight, to which I said "Yes, I understand that, but you can start working on a plan to disengage from him over the next few months."

If I allow myself to mind read, I would say in her mind she knows it's a no-go for me, but since she hasn't committed to our M, she doesn't have to abide by it. And I think she sees it as me trying to control the situation, which is an issue of hers (rightfully so given my past behavior).

I don't know if you are familiar with my sitch at all, but some of this sounds familiar.

My W and I had a couple of different periods during our S that last months at a time, where she would was working on trying to get to a point where she could commit to the M. Her reasons for not being able to get to that point were that she held on to anger from the past, she was unable to forgive me for certain things, that she was afraid of things going back to the way that they were, and, for a part of this time, that she didn't believe that I had truly changed.

BUT, I now believe, in hindsight, that although there was some of all of the above, the number one thing keeping my W from being able to commit to working on our M was the fact that OM was still there, in the background.

Even though W was not 'dating' or seeing OM socially during these times, she still saw him on gigs (w is a singer and OM play the stupid trumpet) on occasion. She knew how he felt about her, ie, that he was supposedly in love with her. And she viewed him as an alternative to me for the possibility for a happy life and NOT being alone. Of course my W said she was capable of seeing OM on occasion and still work towards fixing us, but...

I can now see why all of THIS prevented my W from doing what was necessary to forgive me, to move on from the past, to take a risk that our lives would not go back to what they were before, from making the decision to love me, and, ultimately, from making a definitive decision to work on the M and do the 'heavy lifting' with me that is necessary.

In other words, why did she have to do all of those things that are/were hard for her when she had this alternative waiting for her? Why actually choose to do something that is hard and scary when she didn't have to choose anything?

It wasn't until I took me out of the equation as an option that something snapped with her.

She has since said that what I did in May caused her "to wake up to what [she] was doing". IMO, it caused her to finally see that she HAD TO DO SOMETHING... to WORK at this.

I hate to say this, but my guess is that nothing in your sitch is going to change as long as OM is in your W's life at all. Just like my W, I'm sure that she believes that she can solve this while still having OM in her life. I used to believe that was possible. I don't anymore.

I highly suggest reading the book 'surviving the affair' if you haven't. If I am recalling correctly, that is where i read that sometimes, it is even necessary for couples who have gone through infidelity to move away from the OM/OW to a different city or town. The bond can be THAT hard to break. I know that this is the book where I read about "Plan A and Plan B".

Don't know if you are familiar with the "Plan A/Plan B" philosophy, but a brief synopsis:

Plan A - Get along with cheating spouse, show them legit changes, don't rock the boat, be kind and loving, be the person that the cheating spouse fell in love with... essentially be the rock... the lighthouse home.

Plan B - Take all of that away from the cheating spouse. No contact except for "bills and boys" as J3B coined it.

I will also point out for those reading this that Plan B does NOT require threatening or filing for divorce. It is removing yourself from the equation, allowing yourself to live your life without spouse, and forcing your spouse to live their life without you.

I haven't read your story Breakdown, so I apologize if any of this is off base, but your sitch, just like mine, sounds like basic "Plan A/Plan B" stuff. You, like me, have gone a long time in Plan A... the question is at what point do you move to Plan B.

[Spartan]

Breakdown
I finally read your entire sitch and we sound like very similar people with wives with similar characteristics. Good to watch how you've grown and been able to change from controlling to a person trying to save your family because that's what I'm also working on, as you know. The root cause for majority of my problems come from my trust issues which is where most my work is currently going.

What hobbies are you doing? I just bought Black Ops 2 which isn't a productive hobby by any means but it does relax me after kids go to bed when I just need to kill some time and don't want to read or think. I've also been hunting again and working out a lot.

Denver_2010
Plan A/ Plan B scenario makes sense to me. Besides my unhealthy moments of insecurity that made me do stupid things I'm usually a nice guy. Sadly all my wife seems to remember are the stupid things I've done which I understand. I've slowly started detaching but going full Plan B seems tough since we live in same house and my kids (7 & 4) don't know anything is up. It might take a full Plan B to get her back though but the thought of hurting kids now is holding me back. Not sure if it will be any easier after they know. How long did you end up doing Plan A until you switched? I'm going to try to read your sitch later today (last day before holiday so not doing much at work .

[Breakdown]

Thanks Denver. I have read your sitch and appreciate your input here. Unfortunately, I think you are right.

OM was an EA, but honestly, I just think it makes it worse in this case because she still believes she did (and does) nothing wrong.

I can definitely see where W's connection to OM is preventing her from committing to our M, or even forgiving me. She's quick to say how different I am and how we'd have no problems if I'd have been like this 5 years ago....but she's also quick to point out any number of negatives from before that and the fact that she doesn't want to work on it.

Why actually choose to do something that is hard and scary when she didn't have to choose anything?

This. No work on the M, no running from it...just "happy limbo."

You, like me, have gone a long time in Plan A... the question is at what point do you move to Plan B.

Yep, that is really the question I struggle with. Every time I call a DB coach, that is in essence what we discuss. I guess on one hand, W has made it a bit easier for me to make that decision since we have a court date in Jan. W has actually put herself in a position where she has to make a decision, for good or bad.

And the reality of it is that I believe she will go thru with it and it won't be until months later that she'll figure it all out. My biggest fear is that I won't be waiting for her.

[labug]

Denver, I don't know why but the "stupid trumpet" comment made me laugh our loud!

Thanks!

[Denver_2010]

Denver, I don't know why but the "stupid trumpet" comment made me laugh our loud!

Thanks!

LOL! Yeah, my small attempt at dry humor there. I do hate the trumpet these days though. VERY overrated instrument. I'm pretty sure a monkey could learn to play it too.

[Denver_2010]

Breakdown
I finally read your entire sitch and we sound like very similar people with wives with similar characteristics. Good to watch how you've grown and been able to change from controlling to a person trying to save your family because that's what I'm also working on, as you know. The root cause for majority of my problems come from my trust issues which is where most my work is currently going.

What hobbies are you doing? I just bought Black Ops 2 which isn't a productive hobby by any means but it does relax me after kids go to bed when I just need to kill some time and don't want to read or think. I've also been hunting again and working out a lot.

Denver_2010
Plan A/ Plan B scenario makes sense to me. Besides my unhealthy moments of insecurity that made me do stupid things I'm usually a nice guy. Sadly all my wife seems to remember are the stupid things I've done which I understand. I've slowly started detaching but going full Plan B seems tough since we live in same house and my kids (7 & 4) don't know anything is up. It might take a full Plan B to get her back though but the thought of hurting kids now is holding me back. Not sure if it will be any easier after they know. How long did you end up doing Plan A until you switched? I'm going to try to read your sitch later today (last day before holiday so not doing much at work .

I was it for 18 months Spartan. NOT easy. The book says that men have a capacity to do it longer than women, usually. However, I believe that the book suggests no longer than 6 months. Though I could be wrong about that because I haven't read the book in a while.

I understand it is tough with the kids and with W living in your home. I didn't have to do it under those circumstances. I will say though, that eventually you have to look at it as something that you are doing FOR your W, your marriage, and your family. That even though the short term hurt that it may cause is not what you want, that the long term potential benefit to everyone is more important. Eventually, you see that if you continue down the 'don't rock the boat' path, the outcome is going to be a painful divorce anyway... so why not throw the hail mary?

I would suggest staying in Plan A a long enough period of time so that your W has an idea of what she would be going back to, an idea of what she is giving up. That means that she at least is curious about the changes you are making and if they are real or not. Ideally, she would convinced that they are real, but I'm not sure that it is always possible to get to that point before having to go to Plan B simply because the WAW usually likes to keep the bad things in the forefront of their minds so that they continue to be able to justify what they are doing.