What I'm learning from H stages, disappointment.

[job]

Happy Belated Birthday to your daughter. I know it had to have hurt that her father didn't participate in her birthday. Hopefully, things will be different next year.

Your h is depressed from what you have written. He's not yet reached the point of wanting to ask for help. I don't know how much further he can go into the pit before he does, but going to work the way he did is not good.

Dawn, hang in there. Your little boy has to grow up. I am keeping you and your family in my thoughts and prayers.

[nero]

You and your son have got to stop trying to help him. You didn't break him, therefore you can't fix him. Just as an alcoholic drinks themselve into the universe, he will not stop drinking and seek help until he hits bottom or wants to do it. The same rule applies to mlcers. They do not want to be diagnosed by the family. The more you try to talk to him about seeking help, the more he's going to dig his heels in and not do it. Just leave him be!

just reading along guys- i'd say yes to this - the thing i read about alcoholism that truly did apply to my sister was that if you criticise them - it's a good reason to drink (everyone's againt them) and if you commiserate & "understand" - it's a good reason to drink - it's ok - why not.

you cannot win or change anything- it's hard.

[nero]

hi dawn-

sorry to hear things so grim- wish i could fly over and share a bottle of wine and whine.

I have to say without this site, I can't even imagine where I would be today or what I would have done by now.

I feel the same- i think i'd be gone because i THOUGHT that is what one must do. i do not know if it would be better or not- or if by now i'd think i ran too fast- we seem to have wandered down some path that was meant for us to find- not of our own choosing necessarily- but maybe what we "needed"? i don't know- do you think the cosmos leads us? is it God? is it luck, chance, fate, wtf???

I am at a point where I truly believe this M is over and H will never come back nor do I want him. My aunt said she was there for 5 yrs...today she's M 9 yrs since he woke up.

could you do that? can i? her h woke up- i wonder if ours will - ever.??? how does one make that call???

i'm not sure i think my r will ever come back either. it might be something different if a miracle occured (yeah - rite) and h worked to convince me to try- i'm not thinking he will ever get to that point while i'm still around. maybe he'll reach it someday when i'm a long -gone memory. - i don't think i can do this for that long. just me speculatin- maybe giving up- i didn't think i was- but honestly- how long can i delude myself about whether or not he will ever "turn around".

i agree with you that it is something big that your son volunteered to "be there" and participate. i hate it when people cut each other off- i like the idea of family- so i'm thinking the emotional "connect" of whatever sort to a family is a good thing. even when it's loyalty to someone a mess - for old time sake- whatever. it's positive. yay sonny boy to be so mature.

my h called - chitchatted a bit - then said he's going out of town. i quickly said "well, goodbye then" . he said "i'm not leaving rite now" - and i just said "there's nothing about my life i care to share with you" and hung up. i'm such a jerk - i feel badly about it- i just can't talk to him and act like i don't know. when i do know- i hate him for that moment and then i don't want to talk to him, know him, allow him to hurt me, think about him, give him air time, act like it's all okay- nothing. just nothing, nothing, nothing... why in the world would i want to share even one thought with someone that thinks so little of me. well, nothing of me at all. am i missing something here? is he crazy or what?

i didn't throw up- i didn't even feel too much like i wanted to. he is pushing this til it's over for me- i feel so sorry he's chosen this path -

oh well- i feel soooo powerless and "done". it hurts - but somehow i'm still here - i wonder how long tho? i don't even know if i'm a wus to feel this and feel like giving up and running away. on one hand there's the pressure from "the world" to ditch him and just GO. ON THE OTHER hand there's the db pressure to ride it out- ride it out- and wait and hold on. oh man- either way-

i've asked myself thirty million times what i'm doing here and you're doing there- this love thing- the too many more years of love and good life that outweigh the several of pain and misery. wonder if that's it? whattyathink?

is your litehouse still standing? or too bashed around to lite?

i wonder about mine. i wonder if he'll call and say he's going for good or done forever? i wonder if he ever would. or i wonder WHEN he will. I guess i should be thinking it's something that WILL happen - just a matter of time. i don't understand anything about him- i guess he just does not care if i stay or go- ow is most important thing in life. oh well huh????

i'd thought i'd go to fla in feb. - maybe i'm kidding myself. maybe even seeing the kids and getting a baby fix is a bad idea- i should stay put up here. how can he see me gal if he's not here? . i'm sick of sitch up here- i'm lonely and worn out - don't even know who will look in on mom- crap...

okay- no more thinknig tonite. i'm taking more nyquil- i slept sooo well, didn't cough - and felt very empowered this morning and good about me. amazing what sleep will do- so-

i'm going to have that wine, watch a show- list somejunk on ebay and hope to sleep. this particular5 life stinks- can't wait til it's done-

soooo- can we assume this is my journey and that it will , in fact. END SOME DAY??? I MEAN, without me dying that is??? as in alive to look back and - laugh? (we hope) keeping a good thought.

hope you find some peace of mind dawn- don't know how to get it- maybe you need some nyquil too-

can you (or do you want to) hang on in any sense? do not allow your crisis mode to swallow you- remember mwd saying in one of her books that feelings come and go. what you feel rite now- you may not tomorrow. can you lable it a feeling and take a step back from the brink? i'm trying to do that now- empty mind- do not address "that" - just turn my back on him and thoughts of his "trip" and my anger, etc.

can we just turn the other way? try- don't do anything drastic at all- it's just rite now what we feel - these "feelings" don't have to define us- we need to find ourselves in the bottom of this feeling tornado-

helllooooooo down there..... any body hommmmmeeeee?????

xxoo ((( )))))

[albamarie]

thank you Snodderly! Yes, h is very depressed and from what I have been reading there is a section in the brain that can actually be irreversibly damaged due to depression. I have to read about it some more before I continue to comment.

Journalling-
yesterday I went to my C, I felt good going in and felt even better coming out. I haven't been to him in a while, and he was able to see the change in me. One of the biggest was I was able to put the focus on myself and not spend the session explaining what H was doing.

I professed to the C that I was done with my R and coming to him to work on how to move forward for myself. He said the one thing he recognizes is when a woman says she's done, she has struggled to get to that point and she means it.

Having talked to H, and seeing that he really is a good guy, said there is still hope that one day he will wake up and make the effort to repair our R and work on a new M, being that this M is dead.

I felt like a big weight has been lifted off my life! I know there will be backslides and I am preparing for them so I can have a speedy recover.

I spoke to the C about h moving out, how he asks me to "let" him, how I try to demand it, and how nothing happens. C said he is so filled with guilt, and confusion, and I am Wendy to his Peter Pan. Oh, great! That make ea Tinker bell!

C said there is really no point in keep mentioning it, as H gets that I am asking him to leave, he's just ignoring that I am at a better place about it now. C asked me what would be best for me and I said if H left. Were going to work on what I can do for me about this.

Ever since my S21 spoke to H about getting stronger, getting help, and to except his help, H moved out of the living rm, is asking for help with minut things, and jumping into my bed in the morning after work.

I don't know how I feel about that, so I just go back to sleep as if! He's not even on the edge, he's against my back, yea not sure about that so for now I view him as my "ole friend H"

[albamarie]

Nero, How fun can it be to "get away" with what their doing, if we're not showing them it bothers us. You would think eventually the game is not so fun anymore?

My H says its the thrill of doing something "unacceptable"! Oh yea, who still cares, oh wait, nobody!

Now he's telling BIL that ea is using him and all he does is argue with someone he's trying to help, its not fun, he's even questioning why! And, he doesn't have me pushing him toward her, or talking about her so he can defend her and forget she's not fun. My silence makes him face his sitch at it is, without defending it, or making it my fault, it's all on ea to f*** it up all on her own.

Nero, you hung up on your H, he see's he can still get to you, make you mad and react, that gives him the validation he needs to continue feeling he making the right choice. This is how they blame us for everything even though they provoked it, it's sick and twisted so don't play along.

Ok H, I will talk to you another time...I'm on my way out, where, just some things on my list to take care of, by! I would have said to my own H, ok, well there is no need to come home...but we're in different sitches. Yours knows you can't say that so play your game by your rules!

[job]

dawn,
You are growing by leaps and bounds. Your latest posting here was spot on. When you don't fuel their fire, they tend to burn out. You are absolutely correct in saying that when we stop the chase, reacting to their behavior, and detach, the mlcer has no choice but to look at what he/she's involved w/in the way of the op.

Dawn, hang in there. You are doing great.

[nero]

oh MANNNNNN - SAY IT AINT SO - i did it all wrong - yet again.

I thought being pleasant but "walking away" was good thing. i didn't hang up on him- he got to say goodbye & i hung up. cripes- i swear i will never get all this darn strategy in my head.

are you saying call him today and act like it's OKAY? i could force myself if i had to-

geeeez- here's me thinking i'm being neutral-ish but not overtly friendly- instead i've balled it up yet again. oh well

HEY WAIT - can'T we say it's ME DOING a 180? at least??? i mean, in past it is ALWAYS me , in every instance apologizing, putting on good spin, overlooking, makng it pleasant, STAYING ON PHONE - etc.

can't i even get partial credit for NOT acting the same as i ALWAYS act????? being strong enough to get off and walk away.? isn't that SOMETING HERE? OLD ME would "engage" in conversation, etc. etc etc - this in charge me just had some backbone and "said no" (well - imho)


can i get an amen? oh well- i'm going to go eat some choclate and do a bit of work- do my hair - get busy.

ANYBODY OUT THERE think it was something other than poor strategy?

[nero]

dawn- ya know, he never asks what i'm going to do. he doesn't even go there.

i get what you say about acting like it's nothing- i guess i goofed up -

i thought showing my lack of desire for conversation & lack of desire to comment or care or say don't - would be the obvious take. now i see it does show i do care.

wierdly enough- it makes me feel mostly tired and crapped out. this is all such highschool junk in life. God- i sure don't know men. wtf?

oh well- despite it all- i'm giving myself one tiny pat on the back for not - well, something. not speaking - at the very least. i am a talker- when i stop- it's worth note.

soooo- can i have that??? isn't it something- to in fact stfu???


wayhhhhh wahhhhh- (kidding- i'm not devastated- i can take it)

[TSquared2]

Hi DM,

I just wanted to second what Snodderly said...

I am glad to see the change...keep up the good work!!!



T^2

[albamarie]

keep up the good work!!!

I send these words out to the whole DB community, thanks!

Journaling:
Today I really had a great therapy session with myself. We celebrated my S26 and D19 b-day tonight as a family of 5, no H, and as H was about to leave for work a rush of thoughts hit me hard that made me so mad.

H had said nothing to them about their day, and walked out. Two months ago H thought he was going to stop talking to ea and bought her a card to say she will not be forgotten. He gave ea about $300 over the last month from side job money he normally kept for his tools.

So, I know he knows how to buy cards, NEVER has he ever bought me a card, and D or S were not important enough to buy one for either. I told him I could have used that money ( which we used as back up for yrs) to get D a gift, he said don't get her anything.

As the hurt and anger started to well-up inside me I stopped and realized that I am expecting this monster to act like my h, and it's just not going to happen. He's not my H, he is monster who has taken over h's life and is screwing it up terribly. This not-H is right when he says my H is locked up way deep down in a cage along with his love for this family.

It made me feel so much better to understand this clearly now and not take it all in to destroy me. I would say I gave it maybe a half hour of my thoughts and off I was to get a car wash feeling better. I paid for the deluxe as D and I slid the sun roof inside door open, laid back in our chairs and watched the giant rags slap against the glass, we were childishly amazed!

Long pause: H just called, it's been months since he called me, he talked about work coming up, and asked if i wanted to go to a seminar with him that a friend runs about life, and making the most of it. I paused and he jumped in saying I don't have to, to which I replied, I'll go. I don't want to come off as not willing to be present when he finally has something to say and then be the blame of something bad in the universe.

To Be Continued....