What I'm learning from H stages, disappointment.

[albamarie]

Strangely, looking inward at myself and my own problems with being abandoned have made her look increasingly less important in my life. Facing the pain and fear somehow makes it go away.

Thank God, truly I thank God that I have gotten past, for the most part, the intense need to confront, invision, create, all the assumptions I put myself through.

Your right when you focus on yourself you see clearly that the subject of op is worthless, and given way too much attention. I know I thought of ow more than he didl

Face life head on is what I am going to have to do in order to get past a few fears of mine, and it's funny cause when you do that and look around, you can almost laugh at how much more we thought it all was.

thanks Heather, and my best to you! Keep up the good work and keep sharing!

[nero]

hey hi and holy crow-
\
what a life you've got going there this moment. you sounded a bit better by last post. i listen to you- and wonder how the heck i would deal with your sitch.

it's sooo constant. i wonder tho about the ramifications of you moving out. i don't know the law in your state- i'd think you both own the house together and both are entitled to be there. i am not sure you can chuck him out - or he you. it does stink- HOPEgully your pulling back and not acknowledging him is good stuff if you can do it and it "lets you off the hook" a bit. it's hard to look at them all the time and feel the un-feeling.

i wish i had a miracle answer/cure. you are sure correct that this waiting around is the killer. i still wonder tho, i can tell that both of us are way more detached than a year ago- BUT if this detachment is supposed to be crucial and a good thing- howcome (for me anyway) it is creating distance rather than making me feel all able to "do this" and stay the course?? i mean- are we hoping still for an ultimate re-unification? or an ultimate strength to break it off?

i sure don't have wisdome for you- i sure wish you lived down the street so we could take a big ole walk- and rant our stupid heads off and go home tired & empty - and so on. i just don't know how guys like us- keep doing something like this? i feel about 100 years old today- no kidding.

i'm glad for the good things in and about my life- but i'm done and DONE AND DONE WITh all this bad junk . did i say i'm done? i can't even flesh out what that means = i just feel it- i am done.

i am sure tho, that we both will make it for the next hour, then the next afternoon, then the next evening- then another. til - what??? something??? maybe one of us will all of a sudden have a revelation and achieve instant nirvana? ya think? maybe one of us will explode and shoot guts allover the clean living room? maybe one of us will go out an look around for the daffodils that are popping up -

there's even a little cherry tree up the streeting blooming- poor little thing thinks it's spring - confused like the rest of the universe.

as usual- i hate it both ways. hate when he's there having what he apparently thinks is his great new life- with his stupid people & relatives in it who are so darn important...??? and i hate it when he's here and not in a normal life or r with me.


my h acts pleasant and like everything in life is perfectly "normal". we don't fight- we don't really talk either.

i find it alll toooo cold and distant for my tastes. it is very very "tame" compared to what you deal with.

when h is here- i am insulted and hurt by his lack of affection. i tell myself at least he is not angry and looking for a fight like he was before i knew. i would like very much to just feel hate for him- repulsion and want to never see his face again. then i would tra la out of his life and do just that- never see his face again. i don't like or admire or respect him any more tho either- i don't feel attracted - i don't see how that would or could ever happen again. if he does not work at wooing me back- i don't think we will stay together (i'm thinking ultimately i'll end it).

i think about this mlc spiel of mwd- for want of a better plan (and job & tons of xtra money) i keep hanging in here. i am not sure why anymore.

my h does not have the overt & seeable "sickness" of yours. if he has i don't see it. he is selfish and self-centered and just wants what he wants. whatever is his "pain" - or "problem" - he doesn't even articulate to hmself i think- he just thinks "i am not happy" - she is the one here in my life - therefore it is her making me unhappy. ow is a good friend- i like her- i screw her- she makes me feel young again & happy". the end - third grade.

i think that is all there is in his head and heart. it does not make me want to jump his bones. i cannot stand being around him while he's all unaffectionate & we are disconnected. all his bs about "cares about me a great deal" - it's treasonous and makes me insulted and mad every day. i do not think i'll ever get neutral about it (ow) ea - he needs to ball up and either choose her- or choose a life with me- or i do - - - one of us has to do something - someday.

i'm guessing someday it will be me. i'll get the darn job and darn life and hopefully won't be unhapy & alone. is it better to have a companion a third of the time or none of the time? it's a pathetic way to look at it- this is not what i ever saw or wanted for my life and myself. it is still someone somewhere in my life.

too darn many people in my life heading out, dying, getting old and going away. i rue the day i didn't create children so they would be "stuck with me)" forever. i know it's stupid- that is no guarantee either. it's all dumb - no matter how i swirl the peices around - nothin fits anywhere.

all this crap going on with my mother has me distracted beyond belief. warring with this one sister of mine- she's pushy & really in my face. i haven't talked to her- i don't even want to try - she's unable to "hear" anyone but herself or her pompous h. why bother really? even thinking about talking to her makes me dread it- an exercise in futility.

Would anyone care for an extra helping of aggravation???

i do not need one more person being my "boss" and telling what to do and how to do it. my h, my mother, now her? i don't think so anymore. i have really had it with all these boneheads and their crap attitudes and abrasive personaliites and big fat opinions and stupid lives.

i think it's safe to say they all find me incredibly annoying- so get the hell out of my life already. for pete sake - don't tell me (i'm not interested any more) - tell each other.. ball in their courts.

oh man- sorry for my own SPEW here- you need comfort and support. all i can say is i'm with you in thought- i admire your guts to have gone thru what you have and you're "still standing" - as am i. for what? and why? i don't really know- maybe our own valuation of our "characters" our giving a chance to something important to us until it is soooo abundantly dead and thru that we are sure beyong even one tiny shred of a doubt? that's all i can assume- that like those dopes we loved - we are on our own journey- misunderstood by almost everyone in the universe, nevertheless - something WE MUST do - we both are- so i'm assuming it's our gut moving us forward.

can we let go of the reins and just trust that gut? don't know. he's the guy that let me love this lying jerk for my whole life (blindly) . don't know and don't know.

perhaps we're powerless and moved by forces beyond our ken & control? okay- do you even want to crack a smile at my stupid confusion and insanity? maybe that's all we can do today- smile indulgently at our own insanity.

i'm going with that- i apparently HAVE TO do this - or i'd stop I think. you too - (hand of God?)

xxoo ((((( ))))) if i could save ya i sure would- hang on...

[kml]

You know, his comments to BIL about how he might do drugs just to show EA/friends how to come off? That's a pretty bizarre statement to make - and makes me think he is ALREADY doing drugs with them. Kind of a veiled admission?

You talk about him eating everything in sight - maybe a drug-induced behavior? (Although, really, pot's the only drug I know of that makes you super-hungry - in which case, he'd probably be a lot nicer to live with!)

[job]

kml,
You are right...pot does make them extremely hungry. Another thought is that he isn't eating properly during the day and when he gets home, he's starving and feels like he needs to stuff himself. My xh didn't want to spend the money for food when he ran away and when he was at the house one day, he stuff himself until he couldn't eat anything more and then got sick. It was almost like he was starving himself to either get thin or to save money on food.

[albamarie]

This afternoon my S21 was having a talk about him taking not-H to a doctor, S21 was saying how he could at least try to get something to help with the dep.

NOT-H insisted he didn't want to see life clearly, and how he likes his angry and possible chemical imbalance. S21 said that was nonsense and that was the condition talking. NOT-H then spewed, no I don't want to be subdued by a doc I don't love "her" (me) anymore pointing in my, not even in the room direction.

WTF I wasn't even talking to him...why does he keep saying that. I went in and said, well you must feel backed against a wall by your S21, cause you just had to attack me.

S21 said, see how mom didn't react to your words and get upset...it's because we can understand what your going through and know what sh!t is going to come out of your mouth. Mom is learning and understanding you better, why don't you help your self already and get off the living rm floor.

Why is it so important for him to continuously repeat IDLY! I am pretty smart about excepting and understanding MLC but someone explain this particular phrase.

Is is because he know's it's the best attack/defense he has against me?

[job]

Dawn,
You and your son have got to stop trying to help him. You didn't break him, therefore you can't fix him. Just as an alcoholic drinks themselve into the universe, he will not stop drinking and seek help until he hits bottom or wants to do it. The same rule applies to mlcers. They do not want to be diagnosed by the family. The more you try to talk to him about seeking help, the more he's going to dig his heels in and not do it. Just leave him be!

Right now, he doesn't have any loving feelings for you. Those feelings are stuffed way, way down in his inner self and what is coming to the surface is the dark, murky childhood issues and yes, depression does numb the feelings of those experiencing it. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him take a drink and this also applies to mlcers.

BTW, have you ever read the book by Dr. Seuss called Green Eggs and Ham? Go to the library and find that book and read it...the mantra throughout the book is what reminds of the mlcer when the say they don't love you over and over again.

The more you pin him to the wall, the more he's going to come out swinging and yes, his defense mechanism is to stay he doesn't love you.

Dawn, leave him be. I know you love him, but you are going to have to handle this situation the exact opposite of what you normally would. Why? Because your man is the exact opposite, or should I say the mirror image of the man you are married to. In mlc, most actions that we take w/them will be the opposite of what you would do in a "normal" situation. Also, keep in mind, you are dealing w/a child in an adult's body right now and they don't think like mature/sane adults while floating in orbit.

Your mantra is "I'm going to be okay. I need to leave him alone and allow him space and time to figure things out. I didn't break him, therefore I can't fix him."

[albamarie]

Another thought is that he isn't eating properly during the day and when he gets home, he's starving and feels like he needs to stuff himself. My xh didn't want to spend the money for food when he ran away and when he was at the house one day, he stuff himself until he couldn't eat anything more and then got sick. It was almost like he was starving himself to either get thin or to save money on food

Yes, that's it. He starves himself because he doesn't want to spend the money for food when he's out. He thinks he doesn't deserve it and he has this needs to have a sacrificial character. Otherwise, he goes to far and becomes narcissistic.

I don't think he's doing drugs...he had started smoking pot about 3yrs ago as he started to feel this MLC creeping up on him, though we just thought he was headed for a break down. In the beginning, not gonna lie, it helped alot.

He was just balancing himself out with it and it gave him some clarity and even calmed his need to get enraged. But, that passed and he stopped once the newness wore off. I don't think he has used anything else, but I will not put anything past him for fear of being caught off guard.

I know what your saying about not talking to H. Today was the first day in several months S21 has said absolutely anything to his F. He spoke out because H screamed out how he can't take this anymore, S21 took that as an opportunity to say then I will help you if your ready to get help.

S21 next sentence was or shut up and get off the living room floor. It was nice to see S21, who has been admit about his hatred for his F, actually putting himself out there, he offered to be there if/when H makes a choice.

But, when S made it clear that if he doesn't make a choice it will be because he's weak, that's when H replied, yes I am weak and IDLY (me). He hit that wall and it was my fault.

Snodderly - your so right, he is completely opposite of himself and talking to him is useless, aggravating, and it gives him a chance to dig deeper. I spoke to my Aunt who's H is Bipolar and she said never, defend yourself or get trapped into talking about yourself or the R because it is an open door for H to annihilate me.

She said her SIL in Fl would talk w/her and it really saved her M. I have to say without this site, I can't even imagine where I would be today or what I would have done by now.

I am at a point where I truly believe this M is over and H will never come back nor do I want him. My aunt said she was there for 5 yrs...today she's M 9 yrs since he woke up.

I don't see it...I'm a little bit in crisis mode myself, thank you NOT-H, can't say it's been fun!

[albamarie]

S21 and I just read Dr. Seuss called Green Eggs and Ham! My S gets it, he read it twice. I also had him read this post. We had a good talk! Were back to leaving h in the living room scavenging for food when were out of the room.

Though my S is strong headed about how can his F be soo weak, he will leave it alone again knowing that he at least put the offer out there.

Thank you!

[job]

Dawn,
I'm glad you and your S read the book. Many people don't get it until they've read it 3,4 or even 5 times. I have found that many of his books have a lesson in them, just as the old time fairy tales and nursery rhymes.

Apparently the living room is the safe haven for your h. If he's on the floor, walk over top of him, do not ask him to move, if he has dirty dishes in there, leave them (if you can stand to do it). If he has dirty clothes piled up, don't wash them, etc. He needs to learn what life is about and you can't do these things for him because he needs to grow up, get up off the floor and continue living. He's got to be the one to do this.

BTW, your h did hear what your S told him. He'll never admit to thinking about the conversation after the fact, but you can be sure of one thing, it's been played over and over in his head since the conversation.

Hang in there. It will get worse before it gets better. However, you and your S now have a better understanding of his "mantra".

[albamarie]

Today was my D's 19th b-day, my youngest and only girl. It was her first b-day with out her F, who was home just not present. He did enjoy some brunch goodies once we cleaned up and left the kitchen.

Yesterday evening H went from my chair in my room to my bed, laid down for the first time in weeks and asked me to wake him in an hour, as I walked out the door he said, I don't know how to be human anymore!

An hour later he woke up, sat in living room w/me and asked me to debug his computer. As he walked out for work he said thank you for the computer, and good by.

Today was met with more talk about the computer and a little more eye contact.
He actually left the living room and sat at the dinning room table w/computer, and when S21 fixed it h made a few comments.

Words, real words, but this was on top of the fact that he was very into his own self soothing way, at he computer game for 9 hrs. The evening was met with another thank you, and another good by.

He left in the same clothes of several days, no shower, no dinner, no teeth brushed, no coffee, no lunch. But, for the first time he asked for a box of the less expensive cigarettes I picked up in In. to save (lots) of money. He would not ask about them before.

I'm just holding my own here and trying not to step in/over my own boundaries. It's my nature to want to jump in and have a hand on everything, but I have to let my little boy grow up.