EXPERIMENTING with physical touch with W

[SM34]

25 I think I was MUCH more detached before my coaching session. After some minor optimism from laurie, I see that I have attached again a little.

I will work on that.

[Tallula]

I think it is up to each person what they will tolerate. But setting boundaries is important, only if you are ok with them and will follow through. It is still early in your sitch. While my H was still with OW, I set the boundaries of no money spent on her, no texting & calling her at our home, and no overnight stays. It was what was ok for me. Then when he broke it off with OW and was wanting to move forward with the M, but still keep her as a FB friend and not be transparent & was being secretive with his phone, I discovered after a week that it wasn't working for me. So I calmly stated that I needed those things, or we needed to separate.

I believe you are mainly getting the same advice. You need to start looking at you and what you want. There is a difference in living with your W while she is seeing OM & setting some boundaries, and just letting her do whatever she wants just hoping she'll wise up & pick you.

In all your posts you are so focused on her. If I do this GAL, SHE will like it. Trust me, I get it...but you really need to start looking at what you like & want. I'm redecorating my house. I don't care if H likes it, I do. I'm painting& drawing again, because I like it. My H & I were talking yesterday. A month or so before Dday he really started being verbally abusive. About a month ago when he would start, I would calmly put my hand up and say "I won't be spoken to like this. Please come get me when you are ready to talk to me respectfully." this was hard for me, because...well, it just was. So he said the other day, that he really liked when I stood up for myself. I didn't do it for any reason other than I knew I deserved to be treated better. Before that I was scared to "rock the boat". No one is trying to tell you what to do, but trying to direct you to look at what you want and should & shouldn't put up with...regardless of what you "think" your W will do.

[25yearsmlc]

I still feel I am getting mixed opinions advice.

Some are saying it's good to keep your W at home so she can see your changes. It's burns forever setup of course, but it's only been two months.

Others are saying I need to stand up for myself and kick her out and file for D.


I'm not sure anyone suggested this^^^...Be careful when you read our words. Even if they did suggest it, that does not make it DB advice.

Most people are here trying to follow MWD's philosophy but some come here with their own take on it. Sometimes it's just their perspective

and sometimes they're NOT preaching the DB way, but their own.

You have to be able to see that and discern for yourself.
We're not machines either. We also did DBing in fits and starts.

It's not all a linear process, and neither was the path to reconcilation.

But laurie didn't seem to think it was odd that only 2 months in, we still lived together. So I guess I stick with the pros and ignore the noise.

Especially the noise coming from people who got D'd in the end, or are still trying years later.

Never trust a skinny chef, as they say. =)


SM

the tragic fact is, most people here on this site, will end up divorced. Any marriage in a crisis has the odds against it.

So your main goal has to be to save yourself first and then the marriage. You cannot do the second without the first and in truth '

you both lost yourselves in this r. Save yourself.

GAL and be an interestING and interestED man...a better man, your best self.

When you know you have done this, then you'll need to let go and let God. Leave the results up to HIM.

I really think when you get conflicting advice you'll USUALLY know the better advice is the advice coming from a place of love & light, and not anger or punishment. Be wary the anger...we can rationalize things frighteningly well when we are hurt or feel wronged.

There will be times you cannot tell where the line between self respect and a needless boundary or false pride is.

I'm not proud to say that my wounded ego and sense of injustice OFTEN made me believe that some action was "morally right!"-

but in fact it was ME meting out the justice...my self righteous anger and that's not a place of light and love.


We all find those lines shifting and blurry at times. I found prayer helpful and really digging deep and being honest about my motives.

Try to Do the same.

I think when your focus is NOT on her or fixing her or her getting fixed or treated and blah blah blah

when you HEAR/HEED Crimson's and Denvers words,

you'll see the path more clearly.


No touching today. But W did brush up against me several times while picking up D3 or playing with her. I am maintaining my distance for now unless she is initiating.

The state fair is in town next week. It's W favorite thing to do. She has to get a baked potato from there.

So I think I will say 'I am taking D3 to the fair if you would like to join us'. Good idea?

sounds fine. Do NOT attach anything to her reaction. WRAP your brain around that detaching from the results.


Pace yourself.

[leopoldstotch]

25 I think I was MUCH more detached before my coaching session. After some minor optimism from laurie, I see that I have attached again a little.

I will work on that.

You have never been detached from her.

[25yearsmlc]

25 I think I was MUCH more detached before my coaching session. After some minor optimism from laurie, I see that I have attached again a little.

I will work on that.

You have never been detached from her.

I totally agree! I never saw ANY detachment from you SM. Maybe you saw an inch of it, or some tiny movement but SM ---

you have to detach WAY WAY MORE!!

hey, Sm, Did you read the post I sent you, originally written by Peanut?

Read it again. Seriously. You need to get this.

[AnotherStander]

no SM, of course we can't answer the "just friends?" question yet. Good grief SM! IT's been a day!

I think you're pushing the touching in terms of frequency. She'll probably pull back, Do you have to go from 1 mph to 50 so quickly?

Just strikes me as a lot all at once...and you ARE attaching it to results, and it shows unrealistically high expectations to even ask what we think after a day or a week, or that it will turn things around so fast.

I worry you are not detaching at all.

^^^^THIS! SM, it also bothers me that you're cataloging every little brush and touch in such great detail, you are looking at everything under a microscope like it's some kind of science experiment! I just picture you reaching out and touching your wife and then glaring at her for a reaction, she's probably thinking "yup, he hasn't changed one bit, unrealistic expectations over every little thing." I'm sure you think you're being stealthy about it, but it's very likely you're unintentionally telegraphing your thoughts to her in this stuff.

Also, for the love of GOD stop looking for the "if/then" relationships and using her immediate reactions as a barometer. It just does not work that way and you and I both are living examples of the fact that our ability to read our wives basically sux. So try to stop.

^^^^And this! Laurie told you to gauge her reactions and it's fine to do that, but it needs to be over the course of weeks, not hours. And you have just got to drop the expectations that her reaction (or lack of reaction) means anything.

Yes, it is good that your wife didn't recoil in total horror at your touch....and that she agreed to do something with you. However, you are just seeing the surface and there is still a lot below it.

Just to add to this SM, after BD I did the same as you and even more. I ramped up physical touch, I fed her love through ALL FIVE love languages, I took over ALL duties around the house and I do mean ALL. I did 180's on every complaint she had. The result was she acted happier then she had in months, we got along fantastic, hell even our love-making improved. In MC she said I had transformed into the perfect H. We went from being cold and distant towards each other before BD to being a romantic, loving couple after BD. But guess what, SHE STILL LEFT!!!!! What I was seeing was all surface stuff, what was broiling away under the surface was something else entirely and what is underneath/ inside is what is driving the WAS. You are reading way too much into this and you are vastly underestimating how "done" your W is. You're looking for the tiniest signs of hope and placing all your chips on them. I know what you're doing, I did it too. And it led me to see a marriage recovery that just wasn't there.

Slow down, man.....I know you want a faster fix, I did too. But you will drive yourself nuts looking for it in the "hidden" signals you may or may not be getting. Keep working on you...give the impression that you are going to be great (if not BETTER) and she is going to miss out on it.

^^^^It's so much easier just to copy these other quotes then type it all up myself

[adinva]

When you say you attached or detached I wonder again if you really understand what that means. Can you explain what you think it means when 25 tells you to be detached?

[Navyguy]

Just to add to this SM, after BD I did the same as you and even more. I ramped up physical touch, I fed her love through ALL FIVE love languages, I took over ALL duties around the house and I do mean ALL. I did 180's on every complaint she had. The result was she acted happier then she had in months, we got along fantastic, hell even our love-making improved. In MC she said I had transformed into the perfect H. We went from being cold and distant towards each other before BD to being a romantic, loving couple after BD. But guess what, SHE STILL LEFT!!!!! What I was seeing was all surface stuff, what was broiling away under the surface was something else entirely and what is underneath/ inside is what is driving the WAS. You are reading way too much into this and you are vastly underestimating how "done" your W is. You're looking for the tiniest signs of hope and placing all your chips on them. I know what you're doing, I did it too. And it led me to see a marriage recovery that just wasn't there.

^^^^^^^AND THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I did this for about 2 years BEFORE W left and before I joined this site. W would tell me I was a great guy and a great dad and acknowledge that I had fixed the issues she had with me - but all that was really doing was making it harder for her to justify leaving - which, of course, built resentment toward me because SHE WAS DONE.

SM, you are right - I have been at this for a long, long time. Probably too long...but I am still here and I am still married. See that little "BITS" thing in my signature? That was a thing here on the boards when I signed up. It means "Brothers (or Babes) in the S***". I would say there was probably 30-40 of us at one point. I apologize if I am missing anyone, but as far as I know, only Denver and I are still around...like 25 said - DB'ing does not have a high success rate - but is better than the 0% chance you have without it. Look at all the vets' signatures. For those that were lucky enough to have their sitch turn around, true reconciliation took years.

And there are those here whose situations didn't turn around.

I'm not sure which group I'm going to end up in...but it really doesn't matter. All the long-time vets here have these things in common: they detached and are happy with who they are, proud of their efforts to become a better person, and they know they did everything their power to save their M's. That's what DBing is about.

[E2Dad]

What I was seeing was all surface stuff, what was broiling away under the surface was something else entirely and what is underneath/ inside is what is driving the WAS. You are reading way too much into this and you are vastly underestimating how "done" your W is. You're looking for the tiniest signs of hope and placing all your chips on them. I know what you're doing, I did it too. And it led me to see a marriage recovery that just wasn't there.

That's me, I'm right there with you. I'm in about the same state as SM. Every touch from me comes with the expectation that it will spark something inside her. When I text her during the day and she doesn't reply, I know darn well she has her phone right next to her but is ignoring me, and that upsets me still. For me, how is that showing confidence and someone who "has a life"? I'm nearly killing myself at home doing all the chores and running everything, but it doesn't do anything in my standing with her, because she knows I'm just doing it for her approval. I still am....even though I try to deny it.

I keep reading all the responses to SM's posts, and I feel like they're directed at me too!! When am I going to learn? Probably long after she is out the door and far on her way to a new life. We have to shape up here, for ourselves!!

[adinva]

OK. You're standing there with your hand on a hot stove telling us this is painful, when am I going to learn? I know I need to take my hand off this stove. When am I going to learn?

You learn by doing it. Just a little, just once. And come here and tell what you did different, how you did it, how you felt about doing it. And then screw up 12 times and have one more success and come back here and repeat, reinforce, remind yourself of what you did and why it was right.

Since you mentioned the texting, maybe try this to detach. Send her a text that is worded in such a way that it requires no answer at all, and then turn your phone completely off for 2 hours. If the details don't work try the concept and tweak the details. But change one thing to get yourself to stop hanging on and hoping because it really isn't attractive. It really isn't detaching. Detaching isn't stopping to care. It's stopping the complete handing over of your hopes, mood, and emotions to her as the puppetmaster. It is being YOU, how you are, how you feel, happy and confident and successful and growing and doing interesting things and enjoying your life whatever that means to you...whether she texts you back or not, whether she loves you or not, whether she gets hit by a bus or not. You would need to do the exact same thing to heal and have a complete life if something happened to her. Your being a happy confident successful man will NOT hurt your chances of a reconciliation.

Not doing that might.

Do it.