EXPERIMENTING with physical touch with W

[leopoldstotch]

My advice is do not get involved with OM at all. I don't know how you plan on showing him she enjoys your company but if you get tangled up with him your emotions will kick in and it will get ugly. At some point you have to stop her cake eating.

Right now SM you need to slow things down. To me you seem to be all over the place with your thoughts. This isn't a sprint it's a marathon. I noticed that you said what work your W would need to do if you R but you didn't mention what work you would need to do. So what work would you need SM if you R?

[MrBond]

"Mr Bond, what are your thoughts on this tactic? I know it is not really DBing necessarily, but DB says to do what works. And advice from a WAW suggests that this actually works to create friction. Your thoughts..."

My thoughts are you haven't learned a single thing from anyone. You still are looking for magic bullets to manipulate your W and control the situation. Everything to you is a "tactic". You haven't even started your grand scheme of GALing.

"I think it is smart to force them to confront the fact that I am in her life and she enjoys my company."

Still controlling. First of all your W doesn't enjoy your company. If she did you wouldn't be here.

"I am having to face the fact that she enjoys OM's company, so why should he not have to do the same?"

Controlling/Manipulative

"The thing is my W believes our M to have been sex starved.'

It was.

"So, not touching her or showing some kind of affection is probably "more of the same" which I think is why Laurie wants to establish how much touch my W is willing to allow."

Mindreading.

"When I ordered the tickets, and scheduled MIL to keep D3 for the night, I also showed her I am capable of planning a night and executing, something she said I was not capable of during our M."

Manipulative.

"AND, I forced her to tell OM she is going out to spend the evening with her H on a saturday night, and D3 will not be there to cramp our style."

You "forced" her? Controlling.

"So MIL is sure that will play on OM's insecurities and create the conflict that we need to create within the A. "

You still don't get it. The issue isn't with the OM. Since you haven't changed for the long term, she'll move on to another guy. All of your "tricks" are short term.

"Other sites like MB and MA advocate exposure tactics to bust of the A so it ends quickly."

This isn't a football game and don't preach other site's "tactics". I've seen those and more. The thing that works is changing yourself and growing first.

"Since we are following the DB way, and the methods of MWD, we like to pave the path home etc.. "

WTF? You're preaching to us again?

"but I think at the same time it would be wise to employ some tactics to make the A as uncomfortable as possible, but using indirect tactics."

So say your W comes back. So think you're a great catch now? YOu haven't grown up at all.

[adinva]

Look at it like SM's preaching is really verbalizing his understanding such as it is, and the beatdowns he's getting are reflections of where his understanding isn't quite right in the opinions of those who've been here longer.

Some things are right. Keeping the road home paved and smooth, doing what works. In concept those are the right things to do.

We all know that DBing starts as a playbook and the methods start as tactics. It takes a lot of time before they become who you are regardless of what your WAS is doing.

If you have the money for coaching, more coaching will probably not hurt and will probably help. But it does take time and more than a couple of events to know what is working. Often there is a blowback to an action we try, which does begin to work when we persist. You won't find many tactics that work and work consistently from the get-go. So her failure to recoil and her offer to give you a back massage are *small* pieces of positive feedback to what you are doing, imo.

Your coach seems to not be in favor of your going dark or dim, how come? Did you discuss it?

As an observer, your calm and "understanding" and efforts to woo her back, and willingness to act sort of like a married couple, and willingness to forgive and forget what she's doing as the influence of chemicals and evil OM...to me rings of the same paternalistic attitude toward her that you've had all along. She's a free thinking full-grown woman and the consequences to her decision to openly cheat on you have been less impactful than my S15 gets for talking back. Where are YOU? Where is your limit?

In the future you won't tolerate this again. How would she ever believe that? You've tolerated it this time.

Those of us who were more clearly "fired" by our spouses seem to have an easier time setting boundaries. I said no to a drive to visit H's mom for the day with the kids because he fired me as his wife and I don't need to go and pretend anymore. I told H to pack a toothbrush and stop (irregularly) coming home because he fired us as his home and we needed clarity. I didn't do these things to "show" my H anything or to accomplish any goal other than to express where my limits were and to correct a situation that had become intolerable to me. Just for me.

You might ask how those stories of boundaries have anything to do with my chances at reconciling my marriage. They have to do with me being a whole person with feelings and boundaries. If H ever came back that would be who he'd need to come back to. I can't have him coming back to a me that bent into a pretzel trying to be someone he would come back to, who then has a future filled with being walked on and mistreated because that's what I set myself up for and misrepresented myself as. As I read DB, I rebuilt a me that is happy and fulfilled, and emotionally strong, and better at relationships, and isn't passive aggressive or even passive about my needs and my aims in life, and I think that person is more attractive to H or anyone than the crushed pleading I'll-do-anything-to-save-my-marriage person I was at first here.

Many people here say when you've done real growth and your WAS comes back you may not be interested in the original package of your marriage anymore. You may not be willing to accept what they bring back to you, and you become the WAS. It is not uncommon. Only by learning what your boundaries are, and how to respectfully set them and have them be respected, could you possibly welcome back and negotiate a new life with your WAS.

So I think your work is learning where the real you is, SM. Not the overinflated puppetmaster you present as, not the cowering pleaser and doormat your actions reveal. Somewhere in the middle is a man who knows how he needs to be treated and knows how to ask for that respectfully without fear of the consequences whatever they might be.

Maybe this whole mess happened to wake you up and teach you that.

[Tallula]

Well said, Adinva!

SM, my sitch is similar. I was willing to continue to live with H while he was opening seeing OW and working on the points in our M he had problems with. I still agree with those. They are valid. After he ended it with OW, he wanted to move forward with the M while still being FB friends with her & secretive with his phone. That was the moment I really looked at what I deserved! Do I want my M to work out, yes. But a new M in which I am also treated well. I spoke my boundaries knowing my H would choice to S. I had to stop trying to control the sitch.

It is painful to read your posts, because i get it. You want to save your M at all costs and you want to do it the "right" way. You come here asking if X + Y will equal saved married. I was too scared at first to state what I needed for fear he would move out and it would be over. Because I KNEW him moving out would be the end. When I finally said calmly what I needed to move forward with our R or we needed to S, I have finally admitted Several things to myself. 1. I don't have a crystal ball, I have no idea what will happen. I don't know what's best! 2. I'm important! I deserve to be treated respectfully. I achieve that by setting & sticking to boundaries. 3. I'm enough for one person, so act like it. 4. I can only change me!

Do I still think about how my actions effect H, of course. But the difference is that today, I think more about how my actions effect me.

I really hope this starts to sink in! You deserve to be romancing a W that is only with you, not in a competition. You are showing your wife how to treat you.

[SM34]

Thank you for your responses. Yes I think I am a little confused as to what I am doing.

I know what my ultimate goal is, and that is to save my family and go on to a much better M than the one I had.

My problem is that I do yearly believe my W loves me, and is making a mistake. Still, you are right. She is grown and can make her own mistakes and then she can try to fix them when she realizes.

I have ben told several times by different people that what I am doing by keeping her home is the right approach, at least for now. And I think my coach has the same attitude that it is toll early to set the kind if rules and boundaries that are a sure way to push her to OM.

It has only been 2.5 months and my coach asked me how I felt and whether I could hold on for a little longer and I said yes.

I believe my wife is constantly making a comparison with what we have together, to what she has with OM. Plus she is slowly realizing that he lives so far that it doesn't even make sense. Also realizing that our D3 will begin to forget her mommy the more she is away (wife hinted at this when D3 doesn't look for her in the morning anymore).

So I guess what I am hoping is that enough time will pass to where she behind to see that this situation is unrealistic. By then I will have gotten to a place where hopefully I don't care either way, and so when I start to open up the subject of what her next move is, she will need to make a decision.

To break it down, I want her to make a decision but only when I have laid out my case and reiterated all that I bring to hr life through my actions during thus limbo time.

I wanted to kick her out that night of BD. My family doesn't know what is going on because this is not acceptable behavior for a wife in our culture and there can never be a R in their eyes if they found out. They live in another state so I just told them she is not happy and mohr be leaving me, and left out the OM part.

I thought long and hard those first few days on what I wanted to do. I decided I owed it to all of us, especially to my D3 to see if I can hold this together and give her the stable life that I had growing up.

Need to set up a coaching session and get some insight to what I am doing.

[SM34]

Just setup a coaching session for Monday. That will be after our 'date' for saturday night so I will have more feedback for laurie regarding her physical touch test.

I will ask laurie what the strategy is so I better understand what i'm doing and why i'm doing it.

W is on her way back now from 2 nights with OM. Already messaged me that she is on her way back, and what I want for dinner, and how is D3, and more smiley faces and lols. She us redefining cake eating!

Is cake eating a good sign? I mean when a spouse is done, don't they kind of dislike the LBS? Just wondering..


GALimg tonight with friends. w doesn't know yet and probably thinks I am hanging with her. Not happening!

[SM34]

I just told her I don't feel so good because I have a cold and get response was 'ok baby. I will take care of you when you come home'. Wtf??

See what mean? This is why I am anxious to bust up the affair. I feel like it's the hurdle for our M being worked on right now.

Am I being naiive?

[MrBond]

" This is why I am anxious to bust up the affair. "

So just how do you plan to do that?

So she's happy since she got to have have sex with OM and is going back to you to soothe her conscience.

[Tallula]

What Gabbie said!!!

I wasn't saying to kick her out. But, youth the exception of sex, you are treating her like your wife. Why would she stop?! She is totally cake eating!!

When my H said he ended his A, he came back to our bed, I was acting like a wife. Compliments, ML, etc. when he refused to defriend OW on Facebook, I said that I would have to stop certain things (the above) as my boundaries. Emotionally I couldn't put myself out there when it didn't feel truly like we were really at the starting line. I respect myself mOre than that. He totally understood, while I was scared it would drive him back to her. But I have to be true to me. Later he said that he found it attractive & awesome when I stood up for myself.

THIS is what we are talking about. You won't GET her to see you are the better choice. If my H had openly told me when he was going to see OW, much less spend the night...I wouldn't be going out on a date? when he got home.

[AnotherStander]

I believe my wife is constantly making a comparison with what we have together, to what she has with OM.

You've received plenty of warnings against mind-reading, yet here it is again. You keep convincing yourself that W is just making a bad choice and if given enough time she will see the error of her ways. YOU ARE WRONG!!! You've got to quit thinking this way because it is totally preventing you from taking even the first baby step towards becoming the spouse only a fool would leave.

Plus she is slowly realizing that he lives so far that it doesn't even make sense.

Picture a calm, blue glass-like sea with the sun rising over it and birds chirping in the background. This is what YOU think your WAS's mind is like. Perfect clarity and logic. Now picture a sea being lashed by a raging hurricane, skies inky black and boiling, waves like angry claws tearing at whatever they can. THIS is what your WAS's mind is REALLY like. Nothing makes sense in there, everything is driven purely by emotions. In there it doesn't matter how far away OM is, whether he shaves or not, whether he's a couch potato or not. All that matters is he IS NOT YOU!!! That's his number one selling point, and it's all she needs. Because YOU are the only one keeping a scorecard. On your scorecard your points vastly exceed OM's. Here's the problem, your W doesn't even have a scorecard. In that internal tempest there is no coldly calculating mathematician adding numbers together and comparing, there's only some crazy character out of Alice in Wonderland running the show. So you need to not be you if you want to compete with that. You have to convert yourself into a new and improved you, an OM when compared to the old you.

I just told her I don't feel so good because I have a cold and get response was 'ok baby. I will take care of you when you come home'. Wtf??

See what mean? This is why I am anxious to bust up the affair. I feel like it's the hurdle for our M being worked on right now.

Am I being naiive?

No, you're being stubborn. You've already been told she's cake-eating, yet you continue to cling to the crazy notion that when she does this that it's some kind of a positive sign towards reconciliation. It's not. You've also already been told that you CANNOT "bust up the affair". Any intervention on your part will just drive W right out the door and out of the M, because it's (say it with me) controlling and manipulative behavior. Besides, the A is a symptom of your marital problems, not the cause. You need to look in the mirror for the cause. So, what are you doing to change the man in the mirror?