Thread #8 - It's time.

[Navyguy]

Not yet...but consider it added to tonight's agenda.

I'll tie it in to the discussion on whether or not she is committed to being M to me and making this work. She has had 2 weeks to think about her answer to that since I first asked her -That is enough time to figure that out, isn't it?

If she is committed, I am more than willing to be patient with the lack of sex/affection - but only if I see her taking consistent action toward making our M work.

If she is not committed or "not sure", then she needs to stop wasting my time.

I never had a "wild and crazy" period where I hooked up with anyone I could. I've been with 4 women total (don't laugh you Arrested Development fans). The first 3 were a couple times each. W was my 4th. Since the ILYBINILY letter back in 2009, I'd say I could easily count the total number of times we've ML on my fingers and toes. So at most, for the last 4 years, I've been averaging 5 times a year.

As much as I dislike what I just typed, it did give me some clarity. Why would anyone put themselves through this for this long???

As has been said...life is short.

[Navyguy]

Hey everyone. W and I had our talk about working on our M a few days ago. I asked her if she had thought anymore about if she is committed to making our M work. She said that she is still here. I told her that I don't necessarily equate that to trying to work on our M. She agreed with that, and said that yes, she is trying.

I think we still have very different ideas of what trying is. For her, she is waiting to see if her feelings can come back. I haven't really seen any actual action on her part. IC and I discussed this quite extensively this week - and while I think things are different this time around, I had a hard time explaining why. IC said that from her POV, it seems like we are going back into our old situation. "Stuck". IC said that forward progress seems to have stopped. I couldn't really argue with her.

My biggest challenge is intimacy with W. I really feel like if we can come up with a plan to deal with that, we'll be on the right path. I am trying to create it, and she doesn't necessarily want it. It seems like an easy fix on the surface, but I am really struggling with this. It is probably pushing her away and having the opposite of my desired effect - but for some reason I keep telling myself "maybe today will be different" and I try again.

I'm sure being completely sex-starved isn't helping me out here at all. And now I feel like there's actually a chance for initmacy, so I want it more. I know this comes down to self-control, but what I don't know is if I should have to suppress these feelings and desires.

What do I do?

[MrBond]

I don't know if I recommended it to you, but your W should read Alisa Bowman's book. Look up Project Happily Ever After in your browser. She was a woman who wanted out of her M, but decided to try and make it work one last time. She has a blog and takes a light-hearted yet very honest way of how things are in her M and what it took to turn things around. You might be able to get a few things out of it too.

[Starsky309]

What do I do?

Probably would be best to talk to a DB coach, Navy. They know what's best.


Starsky

[~ kd ~]

Just popping in to see how things are with you, Navy.

5 times a year? For some, that might work. Your reason for accepting that in your life is your own. That you are changing your mind on that, is something you may want to look at. Why would that change, now?

My "needs" being met was much, much, much more frequent than that. I generally had that in my M. Did I really need the sex? IDK. Maybe what I really need is the closeness of a warm body. A feeling of intimacy, even without the sex. Although... one thing generally leads to the next...

What I'm getting at is, the sex may not be the important part, as much as the need to feel love and connection. Sex really is just procreation. Love and connection, being emotionally and physically connected and also intimate with another... even without the sex, may be all you need / want/

Why would you have ever expected something different from your W over the years? Why would you expect (that really means "hope for") something different in the M, in the future?

If that really wasn't something important for you, then you could go live in a bush by yourself as a hermit. Same goes for your W. Does she really not need to feel love and connection? Or is she getting the love and connection she needs, even though it does not lead to sex...

Or perhaps... all she really ever wanted was to feel safe, in which case the love, connection and sexual intimacy was only her way of giving to you what you demanded, when she felt her security was at risk...

like it is when you let her know you pull away...

She's negotiating with you, without using words. You've accepted the terms, for what ever those reasons are...

That may never change... That may be something you will continue to live with, unless your W suddenly found interest in more than just security...

FYI, the general transit of human needs according to one well known personality is:
+ Certainty/Comfort
+ Variety
+ Significance
+ Connection/Love
+ Growth
+ Contribution

We all generally move along this cycle, although we have a specific need we may be more drawn to.

How it relates to your sitch, past and future, could at least prove enlightening. It still remains both parties who need to continue to work on the M because they feel it provides them with value.

[25yearsmlc]

Navy

I think at times your w reminds me of one of those foreign leaders who acts interested in reconciliation whenever we impose sanctions...THEN pulls back when we want to inspect something or get something back.

I won't tell you what to do.

But, imo, she's NOT trying. Is that what you are really asking?

And she has not tried much for several years now. You are not wrong to expect more Navy.

5 times a year is fine if you're only asking 5 or 6 times a year. To mem the ratio of rejection is relevant. She rejects you a lot. She initiates...never?? And I assume you ask less often b/c you expect to be turned down...so,

Aside from the sexless aspects...

I'm impressed with how you have stayed in what I would call a "loveless" m -more than anything else. A lot of folks have sexual issues but are strong in other areas. Some of them still divorce.

I don't see where you two are connecting anywhere, for any length of time.

I'm so sorry to say this Navy, but to me, she's using you for a roof over her head, child care for the kids, and tuition for her career

which she sometimes seems interested in...and sometimes is not. I'm not sure she knows this.

MAYBE there are moments when she's actually confused about her choices. But that is the only thing that has struck me.

Power Of Now went to EE when I did team btw and yes, it was very rejuvenating. PON shared some things with his w about a sad story of one participant. HE shared some of his own insights from his childhood too. I think they bonded from his disclosure. She felt empathy for the participant he was discussing and I think she was touched by his own brave work.

Disclosure builds intimacy. Does she share anything with you of significance? Do you share with her?

You sound really lonely.


So you know, EE (Essential Experience) has its' next workshop in May and then again in August. I think that's it for this year.

See if you can get a buddy or relative to check it out, and then you'll have someone in your life who gets it. BTW There are also some DC people in support groups there, which I know b/c you are near my hometown of DC, right? Check out their fb page too. You can avail yourself of more support.

You need way more support in your life and your m is not likely to ever provide it. If you won't leave the m, and you won't have needs met IN it,

at least try to get some emotional support from your buddy or EE community or join a church or something so you don't have to suffer all this alone.

I don't believe you want too much from your m or w, OMG, I am sure you do not want too much. As Kaffe said though, why'd you think SHE could give something she has not given meaninfully for years?

Did you ever ASK her to go to EE? I might do that if she's actually claiming to work on the m.

"Working on a marriage" means MUCH more than "staying here"--- but I really think that is what SHE thinks working on it means.

Which is darn convenient for HER and darn lousy for you...