It's good to be here

[AnotherStander]

Lately we drifted apart. She said she was sad for her mom, it's been 2.5 years but she still cries once or twice a week thinking about her. I thought I was giving her time to heal by taking care of everything. She just shut down, would do nothing with me. I drifted towards computer games and tv.

She probably didn't want you to do chores while she healed by herself, she wanted you to give her emotional support. I suspect that you didn't, is that the case? And by emotional support, I mean talk to her about her feelings and emotions and validate them without trying to fix her. I know this is an area I failed at when my W lost her grandmother. I gave her space which is how I deal with grief. That is not how W deals with grief, she does it by leaning on those close to her. So by giving her space I drove her to others to get the help she needed.

On Saturday everything came to light and I did everything wrong. I did everything wrong again on Sun, Mon. Now I'm trying to 180.

So you've just been doing 180's for a few days? That's OK, I'm just trying to get a clear picture. If so, then please understand that it's going to take months for your W to believe your 180's. It's been over 7 months for me and W is just starting to open up. She told me that initially my 180's made her mad, she was angry that I didn't do it before BD when "clearly" it was really easy for me. It took her many months before she realized the changes were real and not just tricks. She also came to realize that the reason I didn't change before was because I didn't know she wanted me to.

I have started working out. Eating better. I don't call her all the time. I only respond to her texts.

Good starts. Just keep at it. CONSISTENCY is extremely important. Your W is probably watching you a lot closer than you realize. Stick with it.

She says she loves him and is not "in love" with me.

Typical WAS talk. Don't let it get to you. One of the DB tips is don't believe anything she says and only half of what she does.

She says she loves me. I know I'm not supposed to say it to her, but do I say it back?

It's OK to say it back if she says it to you. Just don't overdo it.

If I push her away, will she come back.

The idea isn't to push her away, it's to pull away from her. You need to detach and leave her to her mess. That's for her to sort out. And if you detach, it is possible she will pull towards you. It's the distance/ pursuit dynamic. If she starts pursuing then you still need to maintain distance, because if you move towards her she will distance again. This is one of the toughest things to do in DB'ing because our gut tells us to pursue, but believe me, detaching works MUCH better than pursuit.

I guess I'm not sure where to start. She wants to be with him more than me, but she isn't convinced she wants to leave me. I know I can't pursue or ask future questions, but how should I act?

Read DR again. Detach. GAL. Make improvements to yourself. That's what DB'ing is all about.

I have set some goals.
* I want her to believe she can be happy at home.
* I want her to come back (leave him).

Look at DR again and read the section on setting goals. These are far too broad. You have to break them down into smaller, more obtainable goals so you can measure progress. Things like "I want her to call just to see how I'm doing." "I want her to initiate a hug." Maybe she already does these things, but the point is the goals need to be baby steps. If you want her to be happy at home, what are the dozen things you would need to see to know that is starting to happen? Make those dozen things your goals.

* I want to be able to trust her.

This will have to wait until if/ when you get to piecing. Obviously you can't trust her now and won't be able to until she ends it with OM. It won't be until she expresses interest in reconciling that you'll be able to set boundaries and work through trust issues.

Personal goals.
* Workout Daily (at least 30 minutes)
* Eat healthy
* Spend more time with kids (at least 1 family night a week)

Again, these goals are too ambiguous. What is your goal in working out, to lose weight? Then set a goal of losing "X" pounds per week and track that progress. If you want to spend more time with the kids then make your goals things like "take kids to zoo", "take kids to park", "take kids to eat ice cream". These are specific goals that you can check off as they're accomplished.

If someone says "my goal is to eat healthy" then they never do. But if they say "I'm going to cut out candy and eat 6 servings of fruits and veggies a day, plus 2 helpings of lean meat and take a multivitamin" then they're much more inclined to do it because there's a specific road map.

[Mileus]

Thank you for the post. It has been very helpful over the last few days.

My new goals have been...
Work out 30 minutes each day.
Eat 1800 calories per day.
One fruit or veg at each meal. (usually more)
Lost 2-3 pounds each week.
Really talk to the kids each day, not just in passing. (I know this sound easy, but I work days, they work nights have boyfriends/girlfriends, etc.)
One family night each week.

I have tried to detach and 180.

Here is the new sitch. She came back.

Once I told her that she couldn't spend the nights here if she was with someone else, she decided she couldn't do that to the kids. Of course, she spent one last weekend with him first.(That was as bad as finding out initially.)

She says she wants to try, which is good news, but she clearly came home for the kids and not me. (At least she's home) She doesn't act like she wants to try. She is cold, distant, sometimes angry. No hand holding, etc. She did say I love you yesterday after 3 days, but it may have just slipped out.

I'm trying to stay detached in case she changes her mind. I'm continuing my GAL (going out twice tonight -- drinks with work friends and a night with non-work friends.) I don't call or text unless it is a reply. I don't reach for her, etc.

Last night, she asked me to sit on the porch with her, so I did. She cried about her mom and said she didn't want to end up like her. (She committed suicide 2.5 years ago.) She doesn't want to be sad and isn't sure we can be happy together. I just listened and put my hand on her shin.

I'm trying to be patient and remember that it's only been 2 weeks. I feel for those who have done this for months or years. It's not easy. I keep slipping up.

[AnotherStander]

My new goals have been...

Good, those sound more specific

She says she wants to try, which is good news, but she clearly came home for the kids and not me.

Well the kids are a valid reason to try at the M, so I wouldn't worry about that, but she does need to put some effort in.

She doesn't act like she wants to try. She is cold, distant, sometimes angry. No hand holding, etc.

Give her some time, it's a big adjustment and she's still trying to decide if it's the right decision. Just stick to your DB'ing and try to stay detached, keep giving her time and space to sort her thoughts.

I'm trying to stay detached in case she changes her mind. I'm continuing my GAL (going out twice tonight -- drinks with work friends and a night with non-work friends.) I don't call or text unless it is a reply. I don't reach for her, etc.

OK, good. Don't be cold though. Keep up with your 180's and always show her PMA.

Last night, she asked me to sit on the porch with her, so I did. She cried about her mom and said she didn't want to end up like her. (She committed suicide 2.5 years ago.) She doesn't want to be sad and isn't sure we can be happy together. I just listened and put my hand on her shin.

Not bad. Try to get her to talk about how she feels and validate her emotions. Ask her what she's feeling- depressed, sad, scared, etc. Try to get her to explore those emotions, tell her you understand why she feels that way.

I'm trying to be patient and remember that it's only been 2 weeks. I feel for those who have done this for months or years. It's not easy. I keep slipping up.

Don't worry about the slip-ups, it happens to all of us. Just learn from them and get back to DB'ing

[Mileus]

Here is a link to the post I put in infidelity.

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2322983#Post2322983


Unfortunately, she is moving out all of her stuff today. She has clearly detached from me. I think the last few days just cemented her decision.

She is planning on marrying him. Probably within a month or two. I don't even want to think about how that will affect the kids. They barely want to speak to her now. And I've been reminding them she's their mother and loves them.

So, the 6 month DB process will be a bit late. That's the problem with not being married, it's too easy to leave. I am crushed and miserable. I don't even think she wants to marry him, but she needs insurance because she lost her job.

I will continue my 180's. I will GAL. I will take care of my children. But, I feel hopeless. My friends and family are there for me, but I have to force myself to keep moving just to keep from thinking about her.

How does a mother move to another city and leave her children with a step dad? Even though I've raised them for 14 years, they have abandonment issues from their dad leaving. The children are older, but angry and devastated.

For those who helped me through this, I thank you. I feel better typing and knowing people are listening. I wish I had better news. Good luck to everyone. I can't believe this happened so fast.

[adinva]

Yikes, sorry. I have boys ages 12 and 15. The last time I told them their dad loved them was when we broke the news to them that we were separating. I couldn't handle the devastation I saw and I wanted to comfort them so I said we both love you very much.

In the meantime, H has not said or acted in any way remotely loving to them. If I said he did, which I don't know because I'm not in his head, I'd be making up pablum to comfort kids who are old enough to see through it. I wish he loved them the way I want them loved, I wish he were more verbal with them, and I wish he were trying harder to have a relationship with them, but wishes don't make reality.

What I'm trying to say is, your kids need you to be authentic and real. If you BS them they will not feel they have a parent left that they can be real with. You don't have to tell them she doesn't love them, but you should not put words in her mouth, especially when they see her actions contradict. Meet your kids where they are, encourage them to seek from her what they need from her, and keep being there for them.

[AnotherStander]

Unfortunately, she is moving out all of her stuff today. She has clearly detached from me. I think the last few days just cemented her decision.

Very sorry to hear this. It sounds like she's making a rash decision and not thinking things through at all. That's very unfortunate. I suspect she will really regret this later.

So, the 6 month DB process will be a bit late

You can still benefit from DB'ing. It teaches you how to detach, build your own life and rebuild your self-esteem. You're still going to need all of that.

I will continue my 180's. I will GAL. I will take care of my children. But, I feel hopeless. My friends and family are there for me, but I have to force myself to keep moving just to keep from thinking about her.

Of course you feel hopeless, your life is being turned upside down!!! It's perfectly normal to feel that way. You're going to cycle through all kinds of emotions. Don't fight the emotions, just do what you can to keep yourself busy to take your mind off of things as much as possible. Healing takes time, give yourself that time.

How does a mother move to another city and leave her children with a step dad?

She may be in MLC. WAS's sometimes do confusing, unexplainable things, but MLCers do absolutely crazy things. You'll often hear MLC spouses say it's like an alien has abducted their spouse's body and moved in to make it their home, the MLCer will say and do things that are completely incompatible with the person they were only days before.

[adinva]

Don't ask questions there aren't answers for. It's not helpful.

Work the hand you've been dealt, and don't spend too much time railing against the fact you were dealt it. You can get a lot of sympathy but in the end it doesn't help as much as picking yourself up and moving forward.

Says the one who's been in railing mode for the past month...

[AnotherStander]

She says she loves me. I know I'm not supposed to say it to her, but do I say it back? I have been because she seems hurt if I don't.

Personally I think it's OK to reply if she's saying it to you. The DB 180 tips say not to, but the idea there is that most WAS's quit saying they love you, so if you say it to them you're putting pressure on them. IE- you're saying "you don't love me but I love you and I'm going to keep telling you and reminding you that I love you until you change your mind." But if the WAS is saying ILY then when you say it back you're not contradicting them, so IMO it's OK. Just don't go overboard, like if she says "I love you" don't say "OMG, I love you more than a sunrise over the French Riveria, if my love were a river it would flow all the way around the world 17 times and end in a lake filled with golden fish in a secluded clearing filled with butterflies and daisies!!!!" LOL!

I don't want to force her to permanently choose because she will probably just leave, but how do I make her see she can't have both of us?

I'm not good at affair advice, but I think you should make it clear to her what your boundaries are. You don't have to kick her out over it, but you should make it clear that you don't see things continuing indefinitely the way they are (IE, with her involved in an A). I think you can express your boundaries without making it sound like an ultimatum if you're not ready for that yet, but it wouldn't hurt to let her know that there may be an ultimatum in the future.

If I push her away, will she come back.

Detachment isn't about pushing her away, it's about you pulling back and giving her time and space. It's not about being cold and distant (for many people that would be "more of the same" behavior compared to the marriage), it is about being warm and friendly and maintaining PMA while focusing more on yourself rather than your spouse. One of Michele's books mentions that we are to LOVINGLY detach, I think that gives a better picture of it then just saying "detach".

[AnotherStander]

OK, I just confused myself, somehow I ended up replying out of sequence, that last post was based on the first post in the thread. I've got too many windows open at once methinks

[Mileus]

What I'm trying to say is, your kids need you to be authentic and real. If you BS them they will not feel they have a parent left that they can be real with.

That is good advice. I'm trying to be that guy. My 19 year old was real upset and called her a whore. (To me/not to her) I told him it was OK to be mad but that she was still his mom and he needed to be calm before he talked to her. I explained that things said in anger have a way of coming back to haunt you. Unfortunately he was trying to quit smoking, so that's on hold. Still, having them lean on me makes me feel stronger and like I am in control of things even though I can only control me. Kids are awesome!!!

Very sorry to hear this. It sounds like she's making a rash decision and not thinking things through at all. That's very unfortunate. I suspect she will really regret this later.

I agree. I'm more worried for her future than mine. I have a great support system. I'm devastated now, but I know it will eventually pass. I keep telling myself that. She has been depressed and on meds for 10+ years and its been worse since her mom's suicide. I could never get her to get help. This will make it worse, but I know I need to let her go through that on her own now.

Of course you feel hopeless, your life is being turned upside down!!! It's perfectly normal to feel that way. You're going to cycle through all kinds of emotions. Don't fight the emotions, just do what you can to keep yourself busy to take your mind off of things as much as possible. Healing takes time, give yourself that time.

DBing, keeping busy (walking 2-3 miles a day now), and reading the forums have all relaxed me. I don't know how people get through this on their own.

She may be in MLC. WAS's sometimes do confusing, unexplainable things, but MLCers do absolutely crazy things. You'll often hear MLC spouses say it's like an alien has abducted their spouse's body and moved in to make it their home, the MLCer will say and do things that are completely incompatible with the person they were only days before.

I think she is. When I first found out and we were still working on us, before she decided she missed him too much, she mentioned being worried about her looks and that she felt she was getting old. And now, I don't know who she is.

Thank you both for your comments. I hope someday to be able to help others get through this.