Thanks

[SemperFi00]

PM, just caught up on your scenario, thanks for visiting my thread.

Seems like there are quite a few similarities in terms of 180s. Some differences in terms involving OM and drinking which I am sure make it even more challenging. I don't think that there is OM in my sitch (an EA about 1.5 years ago that I think may have helped trigger things) but maybe I am just being optimistic (or naive).

Sounds like you are doing what you need to for you and your D's so keep staying strong for them....... Thoughts and prayers are with you.

[SemperFi00]

PM, also noticed that your sitch involves multiple B dates. Anything you have noticed that triggered them?

My sitch also has multiple B dates and not quite sure what drives that. I started Db'ing late in my process and I think that there has only been 1 since then but it was about 3-4 weeks ago.

Stay strong!

[PatientMan]

All the ma'ams, are you from the south, military, or expressing great conviction?

Yes & no, formerly, and no. For me it's just a show of respect.

And I think I was in a "ma'am" mood.

The act of drinking, although a major factor, is only a part of the issue.

Exactly.

For me it was extremely easy to stop. It wasn't even a little difficult. In that moment that everything changed for me and the fog of my sickness lifted, I faced reality with a new clarity. I could go on for a while about the enormity of this instantaneous experience, but perhaps it's best to sum it up by saying, with complete confidence, I won't be drinking anymore.

W is the worst thing I've ever been addicted to, and it's the one I can't seem to shake. I know the answer is to detach more, I'm just being honest with where I am and where I've been. We've been together since we were kids, and through this process I've learned that when I strip everything else in my life away (money, career, material things, reputation, friends), none of that stuff matters and I'm still this 19-year-old boy who gets sick to his stomach when she isn't around. And I used to get that sick-to-my-stomach feeling before we were even dating and were just friends. At that point in my life it seemed my soul recognized something that my head didn't as I never thought about dating her and couldn't figure out the feeling the absence of her presence gave me.

My H also drank way too much and when the sons and I said it's time to quit, he quit. Boom!

But he didn't work on the WHY of his drinking.
...

Just a cautionary tale. Working on the why is important, no matter how you do it.

Agreed.

I was just curious about your W and how she's dealing with things. She has to come to the place where's she ready to dig through the baggage she's carrying. It's scary.

I'm not entirely sure. I know where she "says" she is, and I have to take her at her word and respect that. Of course, she said she was past all the pain and resentment of our M and how quickly I turned things around, but then recently admitted those were still issues for her, so I'm not saying that I don't believe her, I'm just saying that I'm doing my best to not let what she says affect what *I* want out of this and what *I* need to do to get there.

The DR book helped me put into place certain strategies, it made me realize that some of things I had been doing were a mistake, but it also reinforced some of the things I had been doing. I recognized very early on - the day of the BD, in fact - that *I* had to work on *ME* first and foremost. Initially I KNEW I had to be a man she WANTED to be with. It took a long time to start actually FEELING that way, and that process is still ongoing, but intellectually I understood where I had to get to. My heart and soul seem to be lagging, as seems to be common based on many people's situations here.

(It's ironic how my heart and soul were ahead of my brain in the early stages of my R with W, and now the roles have reversed.)

DR also made me realize more about myself and why I was making the mistakes I was making. Most of it is fear-based, I think, but not the lack of self-confidence fear. I know I will continue to have an increasingly successful career. I know I will be a great father. I know I will be a great friend. I know that I have a lot of love to give. I know I can find someone attractive and smart and who I enjoy spending time with. It's just that that person won't be W, and as I pointed out in a previous post, in my mind there has always been two women in my life: her, and everyone else...and everyone else is so far behind I can't hardly even see them on the radar screen.

Even through this very difficult process I still think the world of her. I admire her sticking to her guns. I appreciate that she could be much more difficult and less amicable towards me and how much time I can see the kids. I may not agree with some of the decisions she is making, but I understand why she is making them. I understand now that this is HER journey and I have to carefully balance how to let her figure this out while supporting her in whatever way I can, without applying any sort of perceived R pressure. I admire how hard she is working towards becoming the woman she wants to be. I know it isn't easy for her and she's displaying such strength and courage.

If I am a good man, a good father and a good friend, perhaps one day I can be seen as a good mate. If the latter is simply a bridge so broken beyond repair that it cannot be mended enough for her to ever cross again, then at least I will be a good man, father, and friend. And I can rest my head on my pillow at night knowing that.

One other thing, empathy doesn't mean you carry another person's pain but that you understand it. It's important to be able to emotionally detach.

I do understand her pain and it's kept me very grounded. I was just giving an example to illustrate that, but I am empathetic by nature...probably OVERLY-empathetic, and probably even to a fault. And I'm not saying that because I think that's what people want to hear and what might get ME the most sympathy on this forum, that's just how I'm wired. The aggregate amount of anger I have felt towards W throughout this ordeal is extremely small (probably too small), and that's because I understand her pain. I'm not claiming to know all that she is thinking, but I know that she has hurt, I know that she is hurting, I know what I have done to contribute to that pain, and I firmly believe I have been going through a lot of what she went through pre-BD. I think I mentioned it earlier in my thread, but it's almost seems like a type of karmic justice. Not that I believe in that, I just find the irony intriguing.

And believing that the awful process this has been for me is what she went through as well BECAUSE of me, keeps me grounded and humble.

We have had a couple of talks over the past week and a half and I gave some details of those in previous posts. I am really working on listening and validating, but one thing I did tell her was that we are still relying on each other, even if just as friends. I told her that I wanted to be sure that the hold we have on each other...I want to be sure that as she has a hold of my hand that I'm not pulling her down like I did for so long. If she's holding on to my hand, I want her to feel like I am pulling her up...helping to lift her up. And that if she didn't feel that way, then I am not okay with that and need to adjust. That's the macro-level angle of some of my 180's: showing appreciation, gratitude, respect all while applying zero R pressure. A difficult balance, but I'm not afraid of challenges and I think I'm making strides.

labug, thank you so much for your comments and questions. I appreciate your perspective and appreciate you querying me to make sure I'm really giving some honest thought to how I conduct myself throughout this process. I am nowhere near where I want to be as a man, but I am still improving and feel I am on the right track.

-PM

[PatientMan]

PM, also noticed that your sitch involves multiple B dates. Anything you have noticed that triggered them?

My sitch also has multiple B dates and not quite sure what drives that. I started Db'ing late in my process and I think that there has only been 1 since then but it was about 3-4 weeks ago.

Stay strong!

BD#1: "You need to move out. ILYBINILWY"
BD#2: "I have feelings for someone else and that has been going on since before BD#1."
BD#3: W and OM were caught communicating again after telling their spouses they would be working on their M's.
BD#4: "I have to move forward with D"

I didn't start DB'ing until 13 months in...after the 4th BD.

Thanks for checking in!

[hotwheelsaust]

Patientman, I love this comment you wrote "W is the worst thing I've ever been addicted to, and it's the one I can't seem to shake. I know the answer is to detach more, I'm just being honest with where I am and where I've been. We've been together since we were kids, and through this process I've learned that when I strip everything else in my life away (money, career, material things, reputation, friends), none of that stuff matters and I'm still this 19-year-old boy who gets sick to his stomach when she isn't around. And I used to get that sick-to-my-stomach feeling before we were even dating and were just friends. At that point in my life it seemed my soul recognized something that my head didn't as I never thought about dating her and couldn't figure out the feeling the absence of her presence gave me."
It's exactly how I feel, even though I didn't have the addiction that lead to my sitch.

[PatientMan]

Sad tonight. D7 was having a rough time going to bed because of the situation and I guess that extra dose of reality hit me hard.

And I'm tired.

I slept at the house last night. I think she wanted me to because it's the second time in the last week she's suggested I stay, but I'm not going to allow myself to think it's for any reasons that I want them to be.

I guess I just miss my family. At least the one that once was. I don't know what else to say.

Good night.
-PM

[labug]

Patient Man, you're doing as well as could be expected in this situation. You seem to have a good handle on the mechanics of DBing. The emotions take a lot longer to get a handle on.

Grieving what we've lost is painful but it does get better.

You write about being addicted to your W along with self-medicating with alcohol. What hole are you trying to fill? What pain and anxiety do you have to cover up?

As you quit drinking a while back, I sense that you already have this answer and it's not important that you tell us; the important thing is that you know and are dealing with it.

This from you post above wasn't clear to me, And that if she didn't feel that way, then I am not okay with that and need to adjust.

[PatientMan]

This from you post above wasn't clear to me, And that if she didn't feel that way, then I am not okay with that and need to adjust.

I was using the analogy that we were both still kind of holding onto each other by remaining friends and hanging out together. If she's (figuratively) holding onto my hand, I told her I don't want her to feel like I'm pulling her down like I did for so long. I want her to feel like she's PULLED UP or LIFTED UP by me. If I'm still pulling her down then I need to create more space. Essentially, if the contact we do have is still too much and is hurting her, then I need to ensure there is even less contact.

Does that make sense? Sorry for the confusion.

Her response at that moment was to shake her head and say she doesn't feel pulled down by me anymore. That was about 30 minutes into that particular talk and she was fairly emotional due to the discussion, but not necessarily that particular comment.

[PatientMan]

So my mother, sweet woman, wrote W a letter. According to W (since I haven't read it), there is nothing in the letter I disagree with, but it did contain messages that could be perceived as pressure. For example, my mother is divorced and remarried, so she has that relatable experience to what W is going through. She said something along the lines of her current marriage going through tough times and God can help us work it out. I don't know what the rest of the letter contained.

Aargh!

I spoke with my mother recently who mentioned she wanted to write W. Back when I informed my parents of the sitch, she asked if it was okay if she contacted W to just let her know that my parents loved her and want the best for her and are there for her if she needs anything. And my mother is genuine in this thought...as I said she's a sweet woman.

So recently she told me she wants to write a letter. What she said she wanted to write was a WHOLE LOTTA pressure, especially considering I have completely shut off that valve. I briefly informed her of the strategy I was employing and asked that she limit her words to reminding W that she loves her and anything else that was just nice in general, but NOTHING that can even be PERCEIVED as pressure on the R...PLEASE. I reminded her that she's a grown woman who can write what she wants, but I asked that she didn't undo the hard work I have been putting in.

I'm sure the letter is fairly tamed down, but even that she mentioned God could help us "work it out" means she isn't "getting it" or just had something she HAD to say. I know she had good intentions, but I guess I'm going to have to speak with her.

Context: mum lives out of state and has little contact with W and family in general, other than phone calls every few weeks and a couple of visits a year. Also, as soon as W got the mail today she texted me saying she received a letter from my mother. I'm sure it came as a surprise.

Oh well. Adapt and move forward! I feel better today than yesterday!

[labug]

"Does that make sense?" Yes, but now let it go.

As she knows your mother, it probably won't be seen as you pressuring her. I wouldn't say too much about it or even ask to read it. Leave it between W and your mother.