Suckerpunch stage 3

[25yearsmlc]

so she's only "allowed" to live on "your property" if what?

(And was this the family home or what? Why is she there if it's a new place? She chose to live on your family's property?)

OR IS this where she was in the first place and you want to kick her out if she dates THAT Man (b/c remember, you said she can date OMs in general)

or is it that she cannot date at all, as long as she lives where she is?

See, I still hear pride & anger talking.

You told her she could date but you now say you want to be able to choose WHOM she dates...(nothing controlling there...) OR WHERE? I mean, can you see how confusing and capricious it looks of you?

& frankly, who cares if you told that guy to stop talking to her? I mean, does he work for you?

He brought kids with him and your d was there, to lend legitimacy to their interactions, so no one would accuse her of cheating or sleeping with him. AND YET b/c he broke your laws...your friend appointed himself the sheriff in town and gave her a dressing down...great...

She probably IS turning to this guy for emotional support, obviously...but why do you get to decide that for her?

You can't one day say "since we'll be friends, we SHOULD tell each other all this dating stuff"

and then kick her out b/c she has a guy over With his kids...

I'm not sure what the deal is with the money and rental thing. If she chose to move there for some reason, I'm mystified as to why...unless she feels a little bit comfortable there.

Gee, you better stop THAT feeling asap...oh wait...you wanted to reconcile...

so how is this "showing her a thing or two," moving you closer to your goal?

[25yearsmlc]

SP

it's not that I think you are a weak guy. I don't. I see a lot of hope in your sitch but there are other factors that are stirring in the pot and that is BAD news for you...

stop letting things get stirred up. It's NO ONE ELSE's business what goes on...it really is a private matter. Keep it that way.

And keep up your work. Nothing more annoying to a WAW than seeing her ex h, turning into the man she always wanted him to be, for PRACTICE -

so he can be a man only a fool would leave...for some other woman...

Give yourself some time, and give HER some too.

[labug]

Our "friend" hit my W right between the eyes with this and said she was being allowed to stay here and being given support by "suckerpunches" good graces. She should not disrespect that. This is pretty much the whole story.

SP, I think we talked about his a long time ago. Back then you seemed intent on putting her on the street because she was taking advantage of the situation. That's really not changed, has it? I believe I recall you said she worked really hard and was taking tests to improve her work situation so that she could make more money. You recognized that because of her current work situation she wouldn't be able to find a decent place for her and D. Am I right? What happened to that guy?

You're in a M, no matter how broken and part of the contract is that you share jointly so If the marriage is no more your W will get her share, right? If you control the money in your household now she probably does need you to give her "support" money in order to move somewhere else.

I pulled some phrases out of your last couple of posts because they jumped out at me.

"but I DID chew this friend out in a big way"

"I have not lashed out at her or made any demands or accusations."

"I confronted him."

"I in no short manner, told him to get the F out of my life and if he knew what was good for him he better have ZERO contact with her"

"That is NOT going to happen on my property."

"Our "friend" hit my W right between the eyes with this"

The language you use makes me think you still have a lot of underlying anger, and I understand that, we all get angry but you react consistently from that anger. Why? Is it your pride? Your loss of control? Your W has hurt you and you want to hurt her?

By holding on to the anger and reacting to all these different things you're allowing your W, the ?OM, your friend to control you. You seem like a ball in a pinball machine (remember those?).

How can you change that?

[swoop]

so she's only "allowed" to live on "your property" if what?

If she doesn't do things that will negatively effect my business. Also, I made it clear she was not to bring any men into our old apartment. Me and my family do not wish to see men walking into and out of our business/home to court my W while we are still married. Those are the only boundaries or stipulations I put in place. She knew about them. She agreed to them. I do not feel that was asking a lot.

(And was this the family home or what? Why is she there if it's a new place? She chose to live on your family's property?)

This is the apartment which I lived in for roughly 20 years. It is located above my famies business. My W lived with me there before and after we were married. We conceived our Daughter there, and that was Daughters home for the first several months of her life while I was building a new home for us to live in. W chooses to live there for her reasons, which I will not mind read about. I would probably assume it has something to do with her not having adequate finances to live on her own, if I had to guess.

OR IS this where she was in the first place and you want to kick her out if she dates THAT Man (b/c remember, you said she can date OMs in general)

or is it that she cannot date at all, as long as she lives where she is?

This is the same place she has been living since abandoning our family home. I did not threaten to kick her out. Actually I made no issue with her at all regarding this, because my issue is with HIM. I took it up with him directly. I told him that I would not tolerate a man lying to my face and sneaking around on my property. I told him he was free to be friends or whatever he chooses with my W, even though he gave me his word originally that he would stop contact with her. I told him he is not a man of his word. I consider him a lier and a cheat, and he is not going to do that in my business or my home. He WILL respect here or he will not be allowed here. It's plain and simple.

See, I still hear pride & anger talking.

You told her she could date but you now say you want to be able to choose WHOM she dates...(nothing controlling there...) OR WHERE? I mean, can you see how confusing and capricious it looks of you?

completely out of context because I did not tell her anything. I asked her if this man was there, she said yes and explained the reason, I said "okay fine". I did not take it up any further with her.

& frankly, who cares if you told that guy to stop talking to her? I mean, does he work for you?

No he doesn't work for me. However, I do have REAL issues with this mans integrity. I have no control over his character, but I DO have control over him stepping foot on my property. I even expressed to him that if he showed me respect, made it clear of his intentions and contacted me before coming here, I would allow him to bring his children down and spend time. He claims that there is nothing going o and he has no interest in my W. I expressed to him dilligently that his actions show otherwise. From every possible angle it appears he is up to no good. I am not mind reading or building scenraios in my head. Many many people, friends and customers alike feel that there is something fishy going on. Both my W and this man have so much to lose by doing this sort of activity right under my nose, and they KNOW that I do not approve. Why on Earth would they continue to do it? It makes little to no sense. When I explained all of this to him, he understood and agreed to contact me before coming down, which he has plans to do twice in the next month. His Children love it here, have for years. I really don't see an issue with my actions. I feel I acted perfectly reasonable.

He brought kids with him and your d was there, to lend legitimacy to their interactions, so no one would accuse her of cheating or sleeping with him. AND YET b/c he broke your laws...your friend appointed himself the sheriff in town and gave her a dressing down...great...

Yes, I really wish none of this happened. However, just to shed some light, his children are boy16, boy14 and girl 11. My daughter is 6 years old. They are not getting together for "the kids".

She probably IS turning to this guy for emotional support, obviously...but why do you get to decide that for her?

You can't one day say "since we'll be friends, we SHOULD tell each other all this dating stuff"

and then kick her out b/c she has a guy over With his kids...

oh undoubtedly she is turning to him. They met roughly a month or so before BD, and they have been communicating a lot ever since. My W is even taking my D to attend the soccer games that he coaches on occasion. They clearly have formed a friendship. BUT, I have not told my wife that she cannot date or speak with him. I DID tell that to him originally, because it was very suspiscous that he somehow landed in our laps so shortly before BD and then appeared to be becoming one of Wifes BFF's. Since then, I have made it clear that he is free to do what he wants, just don't be sneaky about it and let me know before entering my property.

I'm not sure what the deal is with the money and rental thing. If she chose to move there for some reason, I'm mystified as to why...unless she feels a little bit comfortable there.

Gee, you better stop THAT feeling asap...oh wait...you wanted to reconcile...

I "think" the reason she is staying here, at least one of the reasons, is she does not have anywhere near enough income to move away. This is her only real option for housing at this time. She does love it here and has many friends that are here, so she has access to them as well.

so how is this "showing her a thing or two," moving you closer to your goal?

I wasn't really trying to show her anything. I realize I am moving farther and farther away from my goal. Since all of this happened, several of our mutual friends have come forward to give W some "straight talk". These are the mutual friends that have been staying nuetral during all of this. Roughly 3 of the women in our group have come forward to express that they feel the choices W is making are wrong, just in the last couple of days. I am sure THAT will not help my goal either. W passed me today and wouldn't wave. She wouldn't respond to a text from me thanking her for buying D a Easter dress. She is Mad Mad Mad at me. She doesn't "love me that way" anymore. She is just done. I don't really know how I could have handled this any differently. I won't tolerate some guy disrespecting me. It might be pride. It might be ignorance, but it's not going to happen...PERIOD.

[swoop]

Okay, I don't mean any disrespect, but WHY is everyone insinuating that I threatened to kick her out? I didn't say that. I really didn't discuss any of this with her, other than how unhappy I was that "friend" got involved. I was supportive of her, if anything. Again, she has NOT been asked to move out...at least not yet. I will cross that bridge and make that decision if and when I see fit. I will ask for advice before doing so. But as of this moment, I have not had any discussion with W regarding kicking her out or making demands on who she dates.

Our "friend" hit my W right between the eyes with this and said she was being allowed to stay here and being given support by "suckerpunches" good graces. She should not disrespect that. This is pretty much the whole story.

SP, I think we talked about his a long time ago. Back then you seemed intent on putting her on the street because she was taking advantage of the situation. That's really not changed, has it? I believe I recall you said she worked really hard and was taking tests to improve her work situation so that she could make more money. You recognized that because of her current work situation she wouldn't be able to find a decent place for her and D. Am I right? What happened to that guy?

We did discuss that and It has been something that has been on my mind. I did get a grip on it, and I did realize the petty outlook I was taking. I also realized kicking her out wouldn't help me reach my goal. With that said, she has passed her state exams, been given her license and is now a working insurance agent. Does anyone know how long it takes to work as an insurance agent and build a client base big enough to support yourself? I ask, because I have friends that have gone at it for a couple years, only to make borderline poverty income. W has expressed to me that she will not make cold calls. It appears like she almost expects the money to just roll in. That seems a bit optomistic to me. I am not so sure I will want EX-W living here a few years after we are divorced....just to put this into perspective.

You're in a M, no matter how broken and part of the contract is that you share jointly so If the marriage is no more your W will get her share, right? If you control the money in your household now she probably does need you to give her "support" money in order to move somewhere else.

you are absolutely right. Unfortunately, we don't have much to give. I am having a very rough time supporting myself. W makes little to nothing at this point. If i give her enough to survive, I will not be able to survive. Actually, there is no way on Earth our combine incomes could support 2 households. Now my families assets, which are pretty substantial are tied up in business. The business is a corporation. I am not the sole shareholder by any means. That puts WIFE in a very tight situation because I am not about to cut my own throat, nor my sisters, brother or mother to help W succeed with her wishes to live a wonderful life. Call me unloving, call me cruel, call me whatever you wish. When it comes right down to it. My survival, and the survival of my D, is going to be my #1 priority, not the woman who chose to leave me.

I pulled some phrases out of your last couple of posts because they jumped out at me.

"but I DID chew this friend out in a big way"

"I have not lashed out at her or made any demands or accusations."

"I confronted him."

"I in no short manner, told him to get the F out of my life and if he knew what was good for him he better have ZERO contact with her"

"That is NOT going to happen on my property."

"Our "friend" hit my W right between the eyes with this"

The language you use makes me think you still have a lot of underlying anger, and I understand that, we all get angry but you react consistently from that anger. Why? Is it your pride? Your loss of control? Your W has hurt you and you want to hurt her?

By holding on to the anger and reacting to all these different things you're allowing your W, the ?OM, your friend to control you. You seem like a ball in a pinball machine (remember those?).

How can you change that?

Well, I will agree that I am angry. I don't think any of this should be happening. I think it is foolish that my W won't even consider making any effort to save the relationship, no last chance, not even a second chance. That is a tough pill for me to swallow. Plus, seeing my D start to spiral out of control makes it even worse. You are darn right. I am ANGRY. However, I think I have made HUGE strides towards hadnling my emotions. I have been relatively calm and collected. I am not sure why everyone feels that I have reverted back or made some mess again?

[LBH_LC]

[quote=suckerpunch Well, I will agree that I am angry. I don't think any of this should be happening. I think it is foolish that my W won't even consider making any effort to save the relationship, no last chance, not even a second chance. That is a tough pill for me to swallow. Plus, seeing my D start to spiral out of control makes it even worse. You are darn right. I am ANGRY. However, I think I have made HUGE strides towards hadnling my emotions. I have been relatively calm and collected. I am not sure why everyone feels that I have reverted back or made some mess again? [/quote]

I just wanted to let you know you aren't alone in these feelings. I know exactly how you feel.

[labug]

We've all felt similar. We've all been there. The real question is do we want to stay there?

SP, I'm not trying to beat up on you but you take everything to a catastrophic level. I do that too sometimes. Many of the scenarios you listed are pretty remote, don't you think.

I know this is, and will continue to be, rough for your D but if you and W can at least co-parent peacefully that will make a huge difference for her.

I would doubt that the courts will loot the family corp and give it all to W.

You and W may both have a different standard of living if you D and it's sad but that's the reality of the situation.

I didn't suggest you were cruel or unloving, just angry. And hurt.

I know how crappy that feels.

But I also know there's a future out there for you.

[swoop]

We've all felt similar. We've all been there. The real question is do we want to stay there?

It's not a very happy place, is it? I don't like being here, and I want something to change.

SP, I'm not trying to beat up on you but you take everything to a catastrophic level. I do that too sometimes. Many of the scenarios you listed are pretty remote, don't you think.

I honestly do not think they are. I think it is all very possible.

I know this is, and will continue to be, rough for your D but if you and W can at least co-parent peacefully that will make a huge difference for her.

I completely agree. W agrees too. I sent my D in to meet with a counselor, and she feels that W and I are doing many many good things in regards to this situation. She also noted that D is regressing and acting out, which is completely age apropriate for a child going through this. That made my W feel better, but it made me feel like it is something that should have been avoided at any cost. I put my D first. W puts our D second, at least that is how I feel.

I would doubt that the courts will loot the family corp and give it all to W.

Perhaps you misunderstood what I meant. What I beleive to be true is, the courts cannot really touch the corporation. That would be similar to my W asking for Bill Gates estate to write her a check because I have shares in that too. It just doesn't work that way. So in effect, my arttorney believes my wife will get NOTHING from the house, nothing from the property and nothing from our business. She is not connected to any of it. All that remains as "community property" are our belongings inside the house, some vehicle debt and child support, which equates out at roughly $350 a month.

You and W may both have a different standard of living if you D and it's sad but that's the reality of the situation.

W has told me over and over again that all we have together is "Stuff". She believes that everything in life, with the exception of a loving relationship and children, is just "stuff". She makes it clear that she is not materialistic and doesn't need things to be happy. I guess that is her way of justifying the thought that things will very likely change for the worse, financially. We will just have to see how she feels at a later time. Those sort of things are really easy to say, when you're driving a late model German SUV and sipping on a Starbucks latte' while you cruise around town on your days off.

I didn't suggest you were cruel or unloving, just angry. And hurt.

I know how crappy that feels.

But I also know there's a future out there for you.

I am angry. I am hurt, and I do feel crappy. Just look at my replies above. It is just crushing me that there is no second chance, no ratinoal thought, no real clear view of how things will be after D. My W is RIGHT NOW, out visiting with some of our guests, friends of ours as well as customers. She is having drinks and enjoying the sun and the property. I am on the same property running around doing work as normal....that is very very odd to me.

Labug. Don't take what I said above to seriously. It is just me venting my frusturation. I appreciate your kind words very much. You have helped me along my way SOOOOO much.

Thank you

[swoop]

[quote=suckerpunch Well, I will agree that I am angry. I don't think any of this should be happening. I think it is foolish that my W won't even consider making any effort to save the relationship, no last chance, not even a second chance. That is a tough pill for me to swallow. Plus, seeing my D start to spiral out of control makes it even worse. You are darn right. I am ANGRY. However, I think I have made HUGE strides towards hadnling my emotions. I have been relatively calm and collected. I am not sure why everyone feels that I have reverted back or made some mess again?

I just wanted to let you know you aren't alone in these feelings. I know exactly how you feel. [/quote]

I think we ALL feel this way.....maybe we need a group hug!

Thanks for the support,Left Coast!

[labug]

I honestly do not think they are. I think it is all very possible.

Which scenarios do you think might be very possible?

And it is all stuff, isn't it? You can have all the toys in the world but if you don't have people to love and who love you, it would be a pretty sad life.

Is this something you and W see differently?