Becoming Patient Man

[PatientMan]

Maybe, but we've been separated for over a year. Most times she doesn't ask me about the store - at least, she won't call me from the store and ask if I need anything picked up.

Oh well, I should just stop trying to figure it out. It's just that it's abnormal behavior, which sets off my internal alarms telling me something is up.

Thanks!

-PM

[PatientMan]

Anyway, I was angry this morning. Resentful. I call the girls every day before school and D3 asked me, like usual, if I am coming home tonight.

It's difficult to process the emotions that go along with this and be true to myself. I was mad when she called, but I did fine not showing it over the phone, so I did okay there. But why do I have to do that? Fake like I'm not mad? Shouldn't I be allowed to be a little ticked off at times?

I am not dismissing what I did to contribute to my situation, I'm just disappointed in the choices she has made since. Just disappointed. Mad about the family getting torn apart - which is partly my fault - but disappointed in who she has changed into.

She looks the same and sometimes seems the same, but I have to understand that she isn't. She's done a lot of damage and a lot of wrong, and until she owns up to it (not even to me, just to herself) she is going to be hiding...from herself. I know because I was there too, trying to escape from myself and hide from myself.

*sigh*

Bee-tee-dubs, I'm going to totally kick a$$ at being a dad tonight.

-PM

[PatientMan]

I saw Mach1 really digging into the "whys" of MrCAS and thought perhaps it wouldn't hurt to dig into myself and my insecurities. An anonymous message board full of caring people seems like a pretty safe place if any of you are kind enough to offer advice.

What am I afraid of?

• I am afraid of letting someone else into my heart. I do not keep people close by nature, so this experience may make it that much more difficult for me to open up.
• I am afraid I will not be able to find someone else who measures up to my W.
• I am afraid of deriving value from myself instead of my "catch." I realize that I have always validated my self worth by having W. I was insecure about myself, but if I got her, then I was SOMEBODY. I am not insecure about my abilities or career or anything like that, I just inherently have always felt "unworthy". And she made me feel "worthy."
• I am afraid of being replaced by a stepfather who will be responsible for the day to day fathering (leadership, discipline, security, interaction) of *my* children.
• I am afraid she will move the kids away from me to exacerbate the previous point. My mother moved me and my sisters across the country when I was 7. I don't speak to my biological father anymore, I speak very highly of my stepfather, and even call him "Dad" and consider him a valuable role model.
• I am afraid W will bear another man's child.
• I am afraid of being alone.
• I am afraid I will be unable to truly move on.
• I am afraid I am too determined and persistent to move on, and that perhaps God doesn't want me to move on or stop pursuing my W in whatever way I can, including DB'ing or refusing to give up.
• I am afraid W will never be able to forgive me or let me back in so that we have a shot at R.
• I am afraid for how this D will affect my children.

None of this digs into my past or how I got to be who I am today, but I'm trying to open up. Maybe that'll help me move on...I don't know, but it's worth a shot.

Reading through those, a lot of them sound selfish. Maybe that's my problem. Maybe I am too self-centered...still. But I don't think acknowledging my own fears and worries is a bad way to start mending that, if it is a problem for me.

I AM HUMAN, though, and admitting my fears, selfish or not...I think it's okay to be human sometimes.

-PM

[LBH_LC]

You're brave to admit your fears, PM.

I share many of those fears, too. You're not alone.

[jp787]

What am I afraid of?

• I am afraid of letting someone else into my heart. I do not keep people close by nature, so this experience may make it that much more difficult for me to open up.
• I am afraid I will not be able to find someone else who measures up to my W.
• I am afraid of deriving value from myself instead of my "catch." I realize that I have always validated my self worth by having W. I was insecure about myself, but if I got her, then I was SOMEBODY. I am not insecure about my abilities or career or anything like that, I just inherently have always felt "unworthy". And she made me feel "worthy."
• I am afraid of being replaced by a stepfather who will be responsible for the day to day fathering (leadership, discipline, security, interaction) of *my* children.
• I am afraid she will move the kids away from me to exacerbate the previous point. My mother moved me and my sisters across the country when I was 7. I don't speak to my biological father anymore, I speak very highly of my stepfather, and even call him "Dad" and consider him a valuable role model.
• I am afraid W will bear another man's child.
• I am afraid of being alone.
• I am afraid I will be unable to truly move on.
• I am afraid I am too determined and persistent to move on, and that perhaps God doesn't want me to move on or stop pursuing my W in whatever way I can, including DB'ing or refusing to give up.
• I am afraid W will never be able to forgive me or let me back in so that we have a shot at R.
• I am afraid for how this D will affect my children.

I have the exact same fears...

[*] I am afraid of deriving value from myself instead of my "catch." I realize that I have always validated my self worth by having W. I was insecure about myself, but if I got her, then I was SOMEBODY. I am not insecure about my abilities or career or anything like that, I just inherently have always felt "unworthy". And she made me feel "worthy."

^^^This is so true of how I feel also

[PatientMan]

The pools open this weekend and the ladies (Ds) and I are going. I am really looking forward to it, and I know they will be excited!

-PM

[Mach1]

What am I afraid of? I am afraid of letting someone else into my heart. I do not keep people close by nature, so this experience may make it that much more difficult for me to open up.

It can be a choice. Who you choose to let in, who you choose to keep out. One thing for sure, you cannot borrow trouble from the future. All that you can do, is to take it one day at time, and see what tomorrow brings for you. If you make that choice today, you WILL fail yourself in the future.

Rebuilding trust takes TIME, and you have that now. Just like you have the time to look at all of this, and decide who you want to be every morning when you wake. And that trust HAS to start with trusting yourself, that you WILL make good decisions regarding your heart...in the future...

I am afraid I will not be able to find someone else who measures up to my W..

This ties into the above....Maybe what the future holds for you, is yet to be determined. And that one day, some lucky girl will feel the same about measuring up to you, and that just may be your current spouse.....

A LOT of us here have felt the same way during this. Like you will never find anything better than what you had, and you pissed it away.

Not true.....

I am afraid of deriving value from myself instead of my "catch." I realize that I have always validated my self worth by having W. I was insecure about myself, but if I got her, then I was SOMEBODY. I am not insecure about my abilities or career or anything like that, I just inherently have always felt "unworthy". And she made me feel "worthy.".

And there is the rub eh ?

Placing YOUR value on another person...

There is a lot of control in that statement. Either from you seeing her as a possession, or you giving her that kind of power over you. Do you really want to view her as a possession ? Or better yet...her define your value ?

I would ask you, why do you feel that way ? Not that you do...just why ?

I am afraid of being replaced by a stepfather who will be responsible for the day to day fathering (leadership, discipline, security, interaction) of *my* children. .

And that very well MAY happen. You do have a choice though, and no matter what happens, you will always be their Father/Dad. No person can ever take that away from you.

I told my kids this when my Ex told them that she was dating ...

That nothing would ever take me away from them, and that he was a pretty good guy, and had a lot to offer them. That they NEVER had to feel as though they were protecting me from anything, and that would not be betraying me by being good to him. That they needed to treat him with courtesy, and respect, because they would never know what he could offer them unless they were open enough to find out.

I am afraid she will move the kids away from me to exacerbate the previous point. My mother moved me and my sisters across the country when I was 7. I don't speak to my biological father anymore, I speak very highly of my stepfather, and even call him "Dad" and consider him a valuable role model..

Your wife isn't your Mother, and treating her that way will do more harm than good.

The legal system has changed greatly since then, concerning the Father's role in raising children. You have rights too, and I'm not sure that she can move them away like that. I would find out though....

Get in there and fight for them, and that time with them....

I am afraid of being alone...

What scares you about that ?

I am afraid I will be unable to truly move on...

How about, for today, you just move forward instead of on....
One day at a time, one step at a time.....

I am afraid I am too determined and persistent to move on, and that perhaps God doesn't want me to move on or stop pursuing my W in whatever way I can, including DB'ing or refusing to give up...

I don't think that God gets too involved with affairs of the heart. I think that he puts us into positions that we need to be in though. I think that he gives us exactly the problems that we NEED , so that we can fix ourselves, and then gives us opportunities to either embrace, or discard according to the lessons that we have learned.

Instead of praying for your wife to do this or to do that, maybe pray for the strength to endure the test, and to embrace the lesson that he is teaching you ???

I am afraid W will never be able to forgive me or let me back in so that we have a shot at R...

That is out of your control now isn't it ?

Why worry about that now ?

I am afraid for how this D will affect my children...

It will....deeply..

What will affect them more, is if they don't learn how to deal with it properly...

THAT was my biggest fear........


So what do YOU want to address first ???

[PatientMan]

So what do YOU want to address first ???

Good question. How about this:

I am afraid of deriving value from myself instead of my "catch." I realize that I have always validated my self worth by having W. I was insecure about myself, but if I got her, then I was SOMEBODY. I am not insecure about my abilities or career or anything like that, I just inherently have always felt "unworthy". And she made me feel "worthy.".

And there is the rub eh ?

Placing YOUR value on another person...

There is a lot of control in that statement. Either from you seeing her as a possession, or you giving her that kind of power over you. Do you really want to view her as a possession ? Or better yet...her define your value ?

I would ask you, why do you feel that way ? Not that you do...just why ?

I don't know why I feel inherently invaluable. I don't know.

I know there has always been a void in my heart, and I've tried filling it with all kinds of different things - things that one would THINK would fill the void (and some things we all know don't) - but nothing ever "worked" until I began to work on myself and regenerating my faith post BD.

Perhaps I see her as both a possession and a definition of my own value. If I can possess a thing with such great value, then it must mean that *I* am good and successful and worthy and valuable.

Of course, when I lose that possession, I lose my sense of goodness and success and worthiness and value. I can step back from myself and see the inherent problem with this methodology of deriving self value, I'm just not sure how to rewire my circuits properly. I think the rewiring has already begun, it just isn't complete yet.

But as to "why"? Why is this my default setting? I don't know.

[Mach1]

I don't know why I feel inherently invaluable. I don't know.

I know there has always been a void in my heart, and I've tried filling it with all kinds of different things - things that one would THINK would fill the void (and some things we all know don't) - but nothing ever "worked" until I began to work on myself and regenerating my faith post BD.

So the only thing missing.....was you...

Sound about right ????

Perhaps I see her as both a possession and a definition of my own value. If I can possess a thing with such great value, then it must mean that *I* am good and successful and worthy and valuable.

So...

Maybe it is like a reward program for you ???

If you are a good provider, and fulfill your "Husband" obligation, then you get to play with your toys. And the quality of toys that you have, determine how well of a job you are doing ???

I think that a lot of Men think that way. Or at least until they learn another way. Most of the time, we have to learn it the "hard" way.

It is flawed thinking, and behavioral patterns, but where did we learn them ???

You say that you came from a broken home, correct ? How much of that taught you to cling tightly to inanimate objects ? How much taught you to hold onto people ??? And if you held on tight enough, then they would never get away from you ??

Maybe we don't speak of that happening, nor is it a thought that is at the forefront of our beings, yet we have thought that way in the past. And that thought became a vehicle for us, so that we could take it out for a spin. We liked it so much that we CHOSE to drive it more often.

Simply put, those thoughts have become our actions....

And our actions have become our behavioral patterns..

And our behavioral patterns are what builds our character. It is who the world sees in us when we "think" that we are better than that.

When actually, we carry around this fear of abandonment inside of us, that causes us to become angry, clingy, controlling, manipulative , materialistic , moody, lacking self esteem, trust etc....


How many of those things would describe you at various points in your marriage ???



I want to recommend a book to you....

the journey from abandonment to healing by susan anderson

Without delving deeper, I think that a lot of what you describe here, are patterns of repeated behavior, and maybe it would be worth it to take a look into it....

Where there is smoke, there is usually fire...

Ya know ?


I would also like to recommend thinking a little about what it means to you to Love within a relationship, and the difference between love, and obligation within a relationship.

How are they different ?

Why would you want them to be different ???

What changes within your role, when you separate those two things ????

Has that ever been done by you ???

[LBH_LC]

quote]
I want to recommend a book to you....

the journey from abandonment to healing by susan anderson

Without delving deeper, I think that a lot of what you describe here, are patterns of repeated behavior, and maybe it would be worth it to take a look into it....
[/quote]

I'm reading that right now. It is very good. (I hope we're allowed to talk mention that here.)