Lost, confused and trying to make a stand

[brobafet]

I wanted to be able to post at work but I am no longer able to. You do realize that she never stopped cheating don't you? Maybe she wasn't with the original guy, but always with someone else. Are you sure you want this to work? She appears to have a strong addictive personality.

I do realize it. No I don't think I can make our marriage work.
She does have a strong addictive personality. I will not take responsibility for her actions.

I would stop trying to address issues with her for the moment. Get a lawyer to protect yourself and your kids. Just because the people going to the lawyers seem angry, doesn't mean you have to be. She will walk all over you because you don't want to do this. Set your feelings aside for now. Get hopping!

kat

I'm trying to set my feelings aside. Fear that she'll refuse to let me take my kids this weekend is probably the most prominent. I've been talking to.lawyers but have yet to find one that I can afford. Thank you for your frankness Kat. I have a lot to think about and I'm running out of time. I have IC tonight. Please continue to pray for me.

[figgeroni]

court and custody are completely different matters than silence with the WAS

and no

you and your wife will most likely NOT be able to put aside your feelings and work for your children

and

legally she is entitled to copies of birth certificates and social security cards...she could get them herself for a court fee (I think it is around 45 for birth certificate and 20 for social security cards but I could be wrong on prices)

[brobafet]

Figgeroni,

That is what I am realizing. How can i be silent when everything needs to be talked about concerning our kids. I want to be able to push aside my feelings and I think I am capable when talking about our D and S.

Thanks for your words.

Went to IC last night and it was good to talk to someone that is completely outside of the situation. I told her my goals for meeting with her and those are to be a better man and not to let D destroy me.

[brobafet]

Does anyone have a good relationship after divorce? I know my W wants.to be let go but I don't know if I want to. I do love her. I don't kove what she has done to me but I am capable of forgivness as long as she can be remorseful. I don't think she is there right now or will be any time soon but can't this turn around? I really don't want to be divorced

[MrBond]

"I know my W wants.to be let go but I don't know if I want to."

You don't have a choice. It sounds creepy when you say it that way too.

"I don't kove what she has done to me but I am capable of forgivness as long as she can be remorseful."

That's why you didn't learn anything from DB the first time. Forgiveness is a one way thing. It's a choice YOU make with no expectations of a return. Either you forgive someone or not.

"I don't think she is there right now or will be any time soon but can't this turn around?"

Again, that's not what forgiveness is.

"I really don't want to be divorced"

Again it's not entirely up to you. Aside from our W's cheating, I really didn't see how you had changed when all this was going on.

[brobafet]

That's why you didn't learn anything from DB the first time. Forgiveness is a one way thing. It's a choice YOU make with no expectations of a return. Either you forgive someone or not.

Actually forgiveness isn't a one way thing (We are not God and we don't have the ability to love unconditionally). If the other party isn't held accountable for their actions they will continue to do what they are doing, i.e. being cheated on. I'm sorry that you think you have me pegged as someone that didn't do the "work" but I did, was I perfect? No, but I put in work. I did as much as I could while my W did nothing but have one foot out the door since she came back, if coming back means she did work then that is laughable. Nothing that I did warrants being cheated on.

You say you don't see how I changed? Lets see, I learned her love language and spoke it often. I made a change when it came to her family and us spending time with them. I gave her more space. I encouraged her in every aspect of what she wanted to do and encouraged her to go to college. I wasn't as clingy (and wasn't before the first time either. I did what most do on here and became more clingy when she told me she was done.) I appreciate your words but don't assume I didn't do work because I did. I did my best to better myself and became a better father and husband, things don't change over night, and when the W doesn't allow me to heal from the first offence and doesn't show remorse for what she did forgiveness isn't an easy thing. It isn't my fault that she is unfaithful and couldn't talk to me about what she was feeling. The thing is she doesn't know how to communicate and when things get tough she runs away. Do I want to save my marriage? Yes. Am I going to let her Go? Yes.

[JustStunned]

I disagree. In my experience forgiveness is a one way street. The peace of forgiveness is something we give ourselves when we let go of the anger and expectations we held for others. Do we love ourselves enough to forgive others? Can we let go and cease to count coup? Can we find peace?

I find to have inner peace I must forgive. I choose this path. I am capable of others. All manner of mayhem and chaos capable of am I. Choose them I do not.

We are not God. I believe we are spiritual beings and wholly capable of unconditional love. For me this is another matter of choice. I have experienced conditional love and for a while I walked that path. It rears its head less these days because I choose so.

If it stings there is probably an element of truth contained and this can point to a starting point, a place to begin again the journey of improvement. To be successful improvement must be continuous as each leg of the journey builds upon the preceding ones. Pick a spot on the path, work on you.

I understand one of your goals is to have good relationships with your children. What can you do to improve yourself and the likelihood you will achieve that goal?

I apologize as this may hurt. The relationship you and she had is done. Trying to resurrect it wastes you. Find the new normal and work building other relationships. Relationships that enrich you.

[Underdog]

Hey there,

I am one of the fortunate ones who DO have a great friendship with my XH. But know that I started this journey trying to save my marriage - we were separated for 2 years before he filed for divorce. We've been divorced since May 2005. That being said, it started with FORGIVENESS.

Actually forgiveness isn't a one way thing (We are not God and we don't have the ability to love unconditionally). If the other party isn't held accountable for their actions they will continue to do what they are doing, i.e. being cheated on.

You really have this concept confused with justice. And it isn't your job to mete out justice. Sometimes the other party isn't remorseful, but that doesn't stop you from letting the hurt go so you can focus on being a happier person. If you DO elect to hold on to bitterness and withhold forgiveness, all your relationships will suffer.

I'm lucky, as I had the BEST teacher in the world. My adopted parents here in Denver sat me down right after my XH walked out. They told me if I wanted to reconcile, I'd have to do the work anyway. They were right. What makes them qualified to hold me to the fire? Their disabled son was murdered by his caretaker. The murderer isn't the least bit remorseful. In fact, he told them that he hated his job because of their son.

They decided to leave that part of the equation to God. Their part was to let go of the hurt and anger caused by his heinous actions. They have 4 other children and grandchildren who followed suit. This doesn't mean they are ok with this! They just chose to pack up those feelings in a suitcase and drop them off in a landfill. They now lead the Colorado chapter of Parents of Murdered Children.

I figure if THEY can forgive that person, I could definitely forgive my XH. Oh yeah, that was a whole lot easier than forgiving myself.

You may think yourself above being cheated on. I don't know your XW and I don't know her motivations. But you may have to examine this more. I don't know. Maybe you don't. But the fact is, marriage breakdowns rarely occur overnight and at the hands of one spouse. Only you, her and God know.

It isn't my fault that she is unfaithful and couldn't talk to me about what she was feeling. The thing is she doesn't know how to communicate and when things get tough she runs away.

Maybe you aren't the easiest person to communicate feelings? You seem awfully defensive here, and if you're like this in real life, it might just make it hard for her to know how to approach you.

Listen, I speak this from experience. My XH works a lot, travels a lot, we have a developmentally disabled daughter, and we lived in survival mode for a long time. Plus at the time, he was drinking a whole lot and got a DUI. We had been in C several times, and I needed *something* from him emotionally. He shut down. And I was the one who came perilously close to cheating.

He and I both have the benefit of looking at things backward and we both agree now that we both made choices, said stuff and did stuff that were not in the best interest of our marriage.

And here's another nugget for you. He forgave ME long before he could forgive himself for walking out on us. That took years.

We all have pain, friend. We deal with it differently.

I challenge you to come back at this entire conversation with compassion and empathy. For YOU as well as her and your children. They are the only blameless individuals in your situation.

I would also venture to say that she isn't going to express any remorse to you until you shed that cloak of righteousness. It's hard for anyone to swallow shame when they are being tried, judged and executed.

And if you tried to be the better husband and father? Good for you! It will serve you well if you have to parent on your own and for your next relationship. But sometimes it's just too little, too late and the other party just doesn't want to continue.

My XH and I were really good friends for a year before we started dating. So my goal all along was to get my friend back. It took awhile, but we did it. He's a genuinely nice person, funny as hell and I enjoy him. He's actually one of my best friends. If I need a friend, he's in the top 5. I realize that most of the folks here just don't have that boon. The former spouse shows their true colors and what is left isn't anything that most people could stomach in a friend. I get that. I don't know your fate, but for the sake of your kids, find some compassion for her - she's their mom and nothing is going to change that.

If you want to save this marriage, you HAVE to do this, friend. So check out some new books and get started. I don't know if you're a religious person, but if you are... every time you say the Lord's Prayer, you're asking God to forgive you the way you forgive others. If you can say that without a lump in your throat or crying, this is something upon which you might reflect. I couldn't say this prayer in its entirety without crying for 3 months after he left me.

And one more thing... IF you want to save your marriage AND become a better husband and father, quit scorekeeping. You're going to lose.

Good luck-

Betsey

[brobafet]

JustStunned,

I did completely forgive her last time, when she asked to come home I welcomed her with open arms and heart, I wouldn't bring it up I wouldn't shove it in her face and if I did try to talk about it, my answer was "you need to get over it." I can honestly forgive but it is hard to do that when the other party continues to lie.

I know that my relationship is over. I want to move on, it happens that it is fresh and that I am constantly wrestling with myself. None of what you said stings. Its the truth. I believe in forgiveness and I believe in love. They stem from the same place. Growing up I was taught to forgive. I was taught about unconditional love but it is hard to believe in right now. I don't want to be accused of not putting in the "work" When I did everything that I could with the circumstances we, Myself and W were in. Nothing and I mean nothing justifies an A, Emotional or Physical. You made vows. Keep them. I live with my choices and deal with them. I do not run away from my problems, I cannot control her actions nor do I want to. I pray her eyes to be opened and to have her apologize to me, I deserve it.

[MrBond]

"Actually forgiveness isn't a one way thing (We are not God and we don't have the ability to love unconditionally)."

Um yes you do. If your kid went and committed a horrible crime, chances are you'd still love him. You don't love what he did but you love him as the person. There's a case just today in our local news where a guy was convicted of killing a schoolteacher at a mall. At the sentencing, the schoolteacher's husband confronted the killer and said he forgave him and prays that he finds peace one day. THAT's forgiveness.

"If the other party isn't held accountable for their actions they will continue to do what they are doing, i.e. being cheated on."

Sorry but this has nothing to do with forgiveness. There are many on this forum whose WASs have cheated repeatedly and the LBS forgave them even though they knew that their WAS would cheat again. They are the ones that are damaged, not you.

"I'm sorry that you think you have me pegged as someone that didn't do the "work" but I did, was I perfect? No, but I put in work. I did as much as I could while my W did nothing but have one foot out the door since she came back, if coming back means she did work then that is laughable. Nothing that I did warrants being cheated on."

I don't think you understand what "doing the work" means. It refers to doing work on yourself to build YOUR self-esteem. There's nothing you can do about your W's actions. You can't control her. However you can keep rebuilding yourself and there was alot in your posts about how much you were dependent on your W. Including the forgiveness issue.

"You say you don't see how I changed? Lets see, I learned her love language and spoke it often. I made a change when it came to her family and us spending time with them. I gave her more space. I encouraged her in every aspect of what she wanted to do and encouraged her to go to college. I wasn't as clingy (and wasn't before the first time either. I did what most do on here and became more clingy when she told me she was done.)"

That's fine.

"I appreciate your words but don't assume I didn't do work because I did. I did my best to better myself and became a better father and husband, things don't change over night, and when the W doesn't allow me to heal from the first offence and doesn't show remorse for what she did forgiveness isn't an easy thing."

That's the part you never changed. You let it eat away at you and get you where you are now.

"It isn't my fault that she is unfaithful and couldn't talk to me about what she was feeling. The thing is she doesn't know how to communicate and when things get tough she runs away."

Again, that is her issue. Not yours and it goes beyond just the M. Maybe something happened to her in the past or whatever. Either way, it's HER choice not to do anything about it and it is no reflection on your efforts.

"Do I want to save my marriage? Yes. Am I going to let her Go? Yes."

This proves otherwise - "I really don't want to be divorced". Start talking about your life WITHOUT your W. Keep the focus on you and your needs for a change.