Does it matter if its WAW or MLC, treat the same?

[Thumpered]

I certainly understand your point, but I do have one small difference. Does it matter in the end, no.

With a MLC spouse, you can make the changes and still be waiting for 1-5 years (or longer) its not so much about you making changes directly that will make a difference, but your tolerance level of your willingness to put up with.

WAS, you are the problem, and those changes might be effecting more than just your marriage. DB'n is the same of course, but I think the way you attack/treat things are different.

With a WAS your doing the opposite of what you've done in the past to show real change, become a better person. In turn the spouse see's the changes and decides or not to buy into them for a second chance or not. With a MLC spouse, it gets to a point that those changes are for you ONLY, the spouse still needs to get whatever they need to get out of their system done their own way. And, to a certain point, gets to a point those changes don't matter to them directly.

I don't know, maybe im not explaining myself well. I do see a difference. I do understand that DB'n is about me. I do understand that detaching is the only healthy way to proceed. I just see it as a difference in time I guess. I cant tell someone the DB'n is gonna be the end all, make it or not answer if its not neccasarily about me in the first place in one situation, but not in the other.

I understand your disagreement, and im not here to argue X's and O's. I just think understanding where your spouse is coming from makes a difference in your tolerance of the situation, right or wrong. The end result is still the same, take care of yourself cause its the only thing you can.

I guess the early diagnosis is for the person just starting to deal with a situation. Its so hard early, hard to take/get advice, your in panic mode, but understanding the difference can help someone mentally understand just why its so important the changes need to get into effect ASAP. Is it semantics, sure. I guess that early difference of knowing why your doing it can help in some way maybe. I dunno.

I certainly spent my first couple of months just trying to figure out why the sky was falling, now I understand it in a better way. It does help, at least me I guess. I DID do things to get me here. I don't know if it will help others, that wasn't my point, just my own justification of the why. I think if my wife was MLC I could almost let myself off in some small way that it wasn't everything I was doing that got us here, it was gonna happen regardless.

I understand your point, and agree with it 99.99%. In the end it doesn't matter, but early on I think it can help with our mindset maybe. Thank you very much for your input, and I totally respect your input. As time goes on, the process of why becomes less and less important, its just getting to that stage.

[ForeverYoung]

Of course it matters whether or not our spouse is MLC. If it didn't Michele wouldn't have wrote a special section in DR about it, and we wouldn't have a separate MLC sub forum for all us lucky souls who are dealing with it!

Many of the problems addressed in this marriage-saving guide are somewhat less intractable and easier to resolve. Wading through a MLC is a process that simply takes time.

...it (MLC) was gonna happen regardless.

This is true. MLC happens in some of the best of marriages. (like mine!)

Snodderly wisely tells us that we didn't break them, and we can't fix them.

Likewise, Cadet reminds us that the marriage wasn't the problem.

This seems to me to be a BIG difference from a situation where the M was the main issue.

We all know there are no guarantees our marriage will be saved no matter what we do. That's why it really is best to focus on ourselves and do what we want FOR OURSELVES.

I like a comment I read from Cadet once where he said we can do everything right, (what ever you think that may be) and still lose our M, or do nothing at all, and come through the crises with our M intact.

Bust On Thumpered!

[Verum]

I think both Thumpered and FY wrote more elegantly than me. I agree whole-heartedly.

[2ndtimearoundCA]

Thumpered, I personally find all the research fascinating. While understanding that 99.5% of any actions we do to try and directly affect our WAS will be counter productive, knowing this stuff does provide some peace of mind.

Good luck!!!

[25yearsmlc]

Thumper, gentlemen,
I made my point and it was partly understood. My question was why this matters IF your course of action is the same. Some seem to think 180's should not be done if its MLC.
I disagree. No 180's are to be done purely for confusing the spouse. These are changes---improvements you make to be a better partner. Otherwise the 180's are false tactics. They obviously won't last in a reconciliation.
I also don't know where the hard data is which proves an MLC is more likely to return than a WAS. Perhaps some WASs who change their mind are then labelled as MLC.

Regardless, changing to become your best self & parent, GAL are still the only things I've seen work. But if you think the research does something that helps you change and GAL & detach, then by all means keep at it.

I just passed on my experience.
Good luck!

[ForeverYoung]

Hi 25, thank you so much for your continued support to the members on this board. I'll never forget your posts to me when I first arrived here. Your words of wisdom have helped countless DB'ers get headed in the right direction. I also admire how you handled your H's MLC.

No 180's are to be done purely for confusing the spouse. These are changes---improvements you make to be a better partner. Otherwise the 180's are false tactics. They obviously won't last in a reconciliation.

Well said. I couldn't agree more.

I also don't know where the hard data is which proves an MLC is more likely to return than a WAS.

I'm not sure who believes that, and would agree there likely is no data on the subject. Even if there was, it would be near useless. It could never tell us which particular marriages were going to make it and which wouldn't. The thing I do know is that a spouse in MLC is dealing with much more than issues from the marriage, and no 180's we make can fix that.

But if you think the research does something that helps you change and GAL & detach, then by all means keep at it.

For me, understanding better what my W is going through helps me to have compassion for her, and to continue standing even when things seem to be at a standstill. I honestly believe it would be easy for many of us to give up and throw in the towel if we didn't understand what our spouse is going through/dealing with.

I just passed on my experience.
Good luck!

Thanks again.

[Thumpered]

What a crappy weekend to get out and GAL, so damn hot. With working outside, and it being 105 all weekend, I just couldn't get out to do a thing, I was exhausted.

Some slippage the last few days on my 180's. Time to get back to work again. I need some better ideas for GAL'n, the gym is like going to work since im already 5% body fat and do heavy lifting all day long. All my friends are drinkers, I went out Friday night, and had Dr. Pepper and ate dinner. Was still nice to just get out. Saturday night kids took me to a carnival in town, face painting and all. My kids have been just soooooo GREAT.

So need to get better at detaching, think wife and I talk more now than the last 5 years, which might be part of problem for me, I take it too positive or negative. Been wondering if going on anti depressants is an option, heard far more bad than good with them. Make you foggy, and terrible to get off them.

[Thumpered]

So my wife tells me today she's ready...............for the divorce.

I was in the process of getting a bigger place so my son could come live with me, but today he told me he decided to just stay with my W.

Double ouch.

The financial implications hit me today, im so overwhelmed now, i'm going to lose 85% of my business with the divorce. (since I basically work for my wife's family).

I'm just stunned as to my next steps, I couldn't even get up to work today. Seems the whole world just collapsed on me. I'm not sure if I should go dark (would that be abandoning the kids?), my wifes romance is long distance so its like a honeymoon every month when she flies to see him. And he's a Dr. so a much better provider I guess. (ouch three). They were high school sweethearts 25+ years ago. They reconnected on facebook.

I have a few options, none I like, I can go live with a brother in Washington, go live with a brother in Utah, or attempt to stay here and try to build a construction co. back up in a terrible economy. With the debt im facing, i'd need to make at least 3k a month to cover expenses, much less gas the truck, feed myself, and keep roof over my head. My credit is excellent but my debt ratio is blown up.

I cant stop shaking at the overwhelming tasks ahead. My wife is going in today for a cervical cancer, breast lumps check on top of it, originally she asked me to drive her, but told me she'd call me instead. (ouch 4). I already know its bad, but how bad, and now im not in a position to be supportive like I was supposed to be last week when she asked me.

Her dr. friend also has a rare blood cancer, and it gives them a new connection.

Guess im just looking for advice of whether I should move out of town and be away from my kids, they've basically got me thru the first 3 months and I cant stand being away from them for even a minute. OR, do I just move on with life, and pray it works out with my kids?

So so many questions, just not enough answers.

[iluvme55]

My heart breaks for you, wish I could wave a magic wand and make it all disappear,you are still so new and I remember the pain so well.
But I do know this it does get better,it will take a long time this journey we have been put on, but you will make it,so sorry you find yourself here, may God give you strength to cope with all things that are and will be changing.....Irma

[Verum]

Thumper, I feel your pain and know what you're going through. Right now you should grieve a little, take care of yourself, and stay connected with the kids, family, and friends.

The W's mention of divorce doesn't mean it's all over between you. Whether she actually files, and go forward is another story.

If your business is 85% due to W's family, then I think you need to talk to them. Why would your W ruin her husband of 21 years and the father of her children? At the very least, develop a plan to reduce their percentage of your income over the next year or two?

To maintain a relationship with your kids, you should stay in the area.

Also, continue following the DB-ing tasks since it will help you detach and get on with your life no matter what happens.