Grizz, I completely agree with AS. Looking back on things in my situation I realize I was plan B. I know that now after W and I are working reconciliation. Had she not found out what a piece of garbage OM was we wouldn't be working on things. We got to this point becuase I had gotten better at detaching, not completely, but better. I had also got to the point were I knew life was going to be ok with or without my W. w and I talk about how timing was everything with we're we are now and both think we needed this to come out stronger on the other side. I think it's extremely important that you GAL and keep some distance. I am praying that things keep going well for you and that your W wants to work to keep your family together
M 37 W 30 S 7 Together 10 years Married 9 years BD: 12/12/12(W filed same day) I moved to apartment 1/11/13 W and S moved to MIL 1/11/13 Peicing: 6/3/13 Reconciled: 7/2013 BD2: 4/20/16 still working on it
Hello all. It's been a week since my last post. Things have continued to go along smoothly. W wants to be around. W wants me to be around her. She is hugging and kissing, holding hands, etc. This is the most affection she has shown to me in the last 8 months.
Now my question is, how/when do you ask what is going on? AS, I know you said that I may be plan B. I do understand that but how do I know? If that is all that is going on then that is obviously unacceptable. However, I don't think it is a good idea to bring that topic up.
Even though she has moved out, we see each other alot. She invites me over to eat and go to the pool with the kids. I almost always go because that is extra time with the kids and if she really wants to be with me (not plan B) then I am happy to be with her.
I have had really good PMA recently until the past two days. I have been thinking more and more that I am plan B and this is affecting my mood. I know she can sense this also even though she hasn't mentioned it. I haven't been passive aggressive in a long time but I have been a little more stand offish these past two days and I don't like it.
Do I continue to play like we are working on us, not knowing if I am plan B, just to be terribly hurt again? Or, do I back off, losing time with the kids and her, and looking like I am pouting or upset just in case I am plan B? I have no idea what to do.
I haven't felt this low in a while now. What happened to my PMA?
M 37 W 36 T22 M14 D8 D4 8/2012 distanced BD 11/2012 (likely wants D. Feelings have changed.) W move out date: June 8th.
Grizz, our timelines are not too dissimilar. W and I lived together while separated for five months, and luckily I had gotten DR early on and we wound up sharing the bed again, cuddling, massaging, etc a couple of months in, with one incident of ML and a few other "less complete" sexual incidents. The first few weeks after my W and I moved out of the family home I had a great time, I was working hard and partying hard from my new bachelor pad, and even had my W coming for weekly sleepovers and so on, and then it hit me a few weeks into the physical separation. My PMA suddenly sucked and I was confused because I felt I had conquered outcome dependence months prior. I think it's part of the withdrawal -- even though I'd come to terms with the breakup, the disappearance of constant human contact and oxytocin is a bit of a shock!
What has helped me get back on track is going dim. W had six months of the new me, we got close again and even though she hasn't changed her mind, the animosity and anger she displayed at the start is gone and replaced by affection. Now I can be more confident that she will have something to miss -- if I'd disappeared at the start, her last memories of me wouldn't have been ideal. It seems, from countless threads, that the only way to remove the risk of being plan B is to take that option away from her -- she needs a startling scare that she could lose you.
Whether that is the path you want to take is a pretty difficult personal decision and one I am not qualified to advise on outside of sharing my experiences.
I would not ask what the touching means, etc. That'd be R talk and the advice is to let her start those no matter what. She'll tell you if she wants to date or reconcile. If you're going to continue the touching, just enjoy it for what it is. I was enjoying much more intimate touching with W than what you describe as recently as a few weeks ago, going back months, and here we are, barely talking for twenty minutes a week now I've dimmed down, and there is zero physical contact whatsoever -- not even greeting and parting hugs, because once those became an established part of our routine again she went back to waiting for me to initiate them as the man. We'll see if her initiating touch returns as/if her pursuing behaviours intensify.
And yes, this can be one of the harder aspects of going dim or dark when you've developed such a relationship; human touch fills a need, even though I'm more and more convinced that all it did was relay to W my willingness to be her plan B - it feels like progress but often isn't. I feel like there were diminishing returns at play; from less awkward conversation to snuggling in bed, it was all progress at first while I was still reviled, then disliked, then tolerated by W, and once we were in a good friendly place it just became unappealing, friendzone-worthy beta behaviour that I'd continue to put myself in that position with a woman who had rejected me.
But one thing backing off isn't going to do, IMO, is look like pouting. The expected behaviour is pursuit. The opposite of that looks like strength, and hopefully, like you might be moving on.
Me: 24 W: 24 T: 9 M: 6 S7, D4, S2 PA Starts, ILYBINILWY: Nov 2012 BD & PA Discovered: Jan 2013 First ML since BD: April 2013 Physical separation: Mid-May 2013
Hello all. It's been a week since my last post. Things have continued to go along smoothly. W wants to be around. W wants me to be around her. She is hugging and kissing, holding hands, etc. This is the most affection she has shown to me in the last 8 months.
Grizz, I think this is good. Enjoy it.
Originally Posted By: Grizz
Now my question is, how/when do you ask what is going on? AS, I know you said that I may be plan B. I do understand that but how do I know? If that is all that is going on then that is obviously unacceptable. However, I don't think it is a good idea to bring that topic up.
I suggest you don't bring it up. If you bring up the topic, she might react negatively. Let it flow naturally. When she is ready to bring up the R, then let her.
Originally Posted By: Grizz
Even though she has moved out, we see each other alot. She invites me over to eat and go to the pool with the kids. I almost always go because that is extra time with the kids and if she really wants to be with me (not plan B) then I am happy to be with her.
How about you accept only 2 out 3 invites? Don't be so available, let her wonder what you're up to that your not accepting.
Originally Posted By: Grizz
I have had really good PMA recently until the past two days. I have been thinking more and more that I am plan B and this is affecting my mood. I know she can sense this also even though she hasn't mentioned it. I haven't been passive aggressive in a long time but I have been a little more stand offish these past two days and I don't like it.
I agree, it is difficult for me too because my W knows me very well. The separation is new and she need to learn that you are not too available to her. That a separation has consequences.
Do I continue to play like we are working on us, not knowing if I am plan B, just to be terribly hurt again?
Don't play like you are working on the M because your W isn't. Don't confuse her current pursuit behavior with that, she's just having some second-guessing about moving out so she's engaging in some cake-eating. She may even be doing it to "remind" herself of why she left. WAS's can turn on a dime, they can suddenly start pursuing and then just stop again like a switch is flipped and say "oh yeah, doing this just reminded me of why it's over." My W did it in January and Crimson's W just recently did thit after having moved back in with him for 3 months.
Originally Posted By: Grizz
Or, do I back off, losing time with the kids and her, and looking like I am pouting or upset just in case I am plan B?
You don't do this either. You GAL! Do things WITHOUT her. Don't fill her in on all your activities, you are SEPARATED now. Embrace that, do some things for yourself for a change. Don't pout around her, show her PMA, but also show her distraction. Show her that you've got other things going on in your life and you're not available to her all the time. Like Sailing said, turn down an offer now and then. Tell her you've got another commitment and can't make it. If she asks questions about your commitment be vague. You need to give her time and space, but you need to take it for yourself too. Remember what I told you about my journey in separation and the growth it spurred in me. See this as an opportunity. Quit being so damned concerned about what her reaction is to every little thing you do or say. Make this about YOU
Hello all. It's been a week since my last post. Things have continued to go along smoothly. W wants to be around. W wants me to be around her. She is hugging and kissing, holding hands, etc.
Good. I'm guessing this is the direction you would like to continue moving towards, no?
Now my question is, how/when do you ask what is going on?
You don't. Let her lead this conversation. No pressure from you.
Even though she has moved out, we see each other alot. She invites me over to eat and go to the pool with the kids. I almost always go because that is extra time with the kids and if she really wants to be with me (not plan B) then I am happy to be with her.
Pretending to not want to hang with W (when you'd really like to) in the hopes that she'll miss you is a reverse psychology tactic, and is manipulative. It's a game that I wouldn't play. You can accept any invites you want, go and show strength, independence and NOT pursue her. I'd rather do this than play silly "mystery" games. If W wants you it'll be for WHO YOU ARE, not who you're pretending you are just to win her back. She's smart enough to see through that.
I have had really good PMA recently until the past two days. I have been thinking more and more that I am plan B and this is affecting my mood. I know she can sense this also even though she hasn't mentioned it. I haven't been passive aggressive in a long time but I have been a little more stand offish these past two days and I don't like it.
You don't know if you're plan B. Even if you are, it's better than not being an option. Either way, you can't control this, so why worry about it? Just be the best Grizz you can be, so she KNOWS what she may be giving up.
Do I continue to play like we are working on us, not knowing if I am plan B, just to be terribly hurt again? Or, do I back off, losing time with the kids and her, and looking like I am pouting or upset just in case I am plan B? I have no idea what to do.
If by "working on us" you mean working on the M, I say no, let her lead for now. Only "back off" if you need to do so for you, otherwise you should be giving her your best effort. Isn't that what you want her to see?
I haven't felt this low in a while now. What happened to my PMA?
It's very normal to have highs and lows in PMA. Focus on your plan, which should be rock solid, not your feelings which will naturally fluctuate.
M: A really long time. Crisis: 5 years. She's still worth it.
Life is never made unbearable by circumstances, but only by lack of meaning and purpose. -Viktor Frankl
ME:51 W:46 M:25 S:22, S:20 Divorced 16/9/15 BD 10/12 W left 12/12 with OW, affair confirmed Nov/12. Dark since 6/13 I"m in a new relationship since Feb 14.
Me-48,W-51 M-22,T-24 S- 18,16,9 Feb-Jul '11 Away from Home, after initial B date Aug-Dec '11 Back at Home on couch Dec '11-now Same bedroom, room mates only Dec '14 W files initial D paperwork
