Attraction, oxytocin, and limerence

[2ndtimearoundCA]

So our spouses tell us that it is over and we start DBing. But it is too little too late and we end up separated or in the process of divorce. Now we start the LRT. We get a life, we work on our 180s, we detach. We have taken a seat on the craziest roller coaster ride of our lives and it becomes our reality, our normal. Until we get off.

Will our spouses notice our 180s? Will they see that we have gotten a life? Will it make any difference? Maybe. But what if our spouses are seeking limerence (AnotherStander’s favorite word)? Will our spouses ever realize that the feeling of being in love is temporary and we offer a real love and commitment?

Our spouses have told us “I love you, but I am not in love with you.” Wow that hurts!! Especially now that we are realizing that we are losing something that we had been taking for granted. We want that which is scarce.

And so do our spouses. If our spouses see us as there and available will they ever come back to us? Or is it more likely that they will return when they fear losing us. It may seem ironic that our spouses may finally want us back as soon as we don’t want them any longer.

And so it happens. We begin dating others and truly moving on with our lives and the green-eyed monster reveals it’s ugly face and those brain chemicals kick in and finally our walk-away spouses have feelings for us again.

Oh yes, it is a chemical in our brains (oxytocin in the case of women) that causes those feelings of being in-love. This is what our walk away wives get from seeing an OM. What is causing the attraction (the release of oxytocin)? It is the uncertainty, the mystery, the push-pull dynamic. It is new and exciting. It is fun and stress-free. And don’t forget, our walkaway spouses get a rush just from being “bad”.

What if we, as left-behind spouses, could do things to create attraction in our walk-away spouses? Is it wrong to date others simply to get our walk-away spouses to notice us again? What other things could we do to create a sense of mystery and excitement and draw our spouses back to us? Would we do those things just to open the door of opportunity to potentially reconcile? Or do we need our spouses to come to the conclusion that limerence is temporary and we offer so much more than that?

Thoughts?

[labug]

Game-playing and not authentic to who I want to be. Others may think differently.

Would you want a R based on that?

Men produce oxytocin but in lesser amounts than women. (women also produce testosterone)

[BklynMom]

I agree that game playing is not the direction we should be headed in but I do think its good for the LBS to date. Its good for the LBS self esteem and it also may make the WAS take a second look.

Funny I havent been on a date yet, for me it just doesnt feel authentic to date but in theory I would like to.

[MrCAS]

I don't think that game playing has a place in DBing.

I wouldn't want my W to come back because of that. What do you suppose might be the backlash when they realize what you are doing is not genuine?

[2ndtimearoundCA]

I can see how dating someone purely for the purpose of making our spouse jealous would be considered game playing, but I didn't mean to focus my post on that action in particular. I was more thinking about an entire spectrum of things that we could do or not do that lead us to be more attractive. sandi2's 37 rules would be examples. What if we made a rule to never say anything negative to our spouse no matter what. Always frame everything in the positive. Would that be a game? What makes something a game? If we are acting as if everything is great when we feel terrible is that not a game?

[MrBond]

"We begin dating others and truly moving on with our lives and the green-eyed monster reveals it’s ugly face and those brain chemicals kick in and finally our walk-away spouses have feelings for us again."

You're making pretty general statements. Just from what I've seen, this doesn't happen in the majority of cases. Jealousy doesn't make them come back.

You're pretty off the mark in alot of your generalizations. I understand that you said you "read" DB when your first M was in trouble, but I don't think you understood what it was.

"I was more thinking about an entire spectrum of things that we could do or not do that lead us to be more attractive. sandi2's 37 rules would be examples."

First of all, these aren't Sandi's rules. They are written in the book.

Second, the rules aren't done to "make you attractive". It's to help you cope through all the confusion with what's going on. It gives you something to concentrate on so you're not entirely thinking about your spouse.

" What if we made a rule to never say anything negative to our spouse no matter what."

No one said you had to do that and obviously it's impossible.

"Always frame everything in the positive. Would that be a game? What makes something a game? If we are acting as if everything is great when we feel terrible is that not a game?"

No one said that you had to act "as if" everything were great. It's the act of respecting the other WAS's right to decide to D. You don't have to agree with it.
If you didn't change the behaviors or those things that your W said turned her off, then no amount of dating is going to get her back.

You have only been at this for a very short time, yet have gone out on several dates. That speaks less about your W and more about who you are. You don't need to date to be happy.

[labug]

Your second post was clearer in what you were trying to convey. Many people who come here are looking for game strategies and do think of this a game with moves based on what their spouse does or does not do.

Have you read URworthy's thread? Lots of good ideas in there.

[Starsky309]

This is a much-needed and often-overlooked discussion.

People need to get off their high-horse about "game-playing," as much of DBing is based -- let's be honest here -- on reading, learning and then doing specific techniques that are designed to re-attract wayward or walkaway spouses. Are "180s" not game-playing, if the new, 180-degree oppositive behavior isn't something that is authentic to our usual selves?

That's just one example.

I don't advocate dating while married, at least not while actively trying to reconcile and CERTAINLY not without being honest with each other as to what rules are in place during that stage of your separation. But to NOT be willing to study -- and openly discuss and debate -- the basic laws of human attraction is to (in my opinion) remove 3 bullets from your gun before you even start.

It's a basic dynamic of human attraction that neediness is NOT attractive, and yet people want what they perceive they CAN'T have.

There are ways to build this understanding into appropriate DBing, and it can put your efforts on a much faster track to possible success.

Anyone trying to DB a spouse actively engaged in an affair would be wise to Google "PEA brain chemicals endorphines love lust infidelity", and do a little research. PEAs are HIGHLY addictive, and even show up on CAT scans! It is the drug that makes an otherwise sane, intelligent adult woman -- an astronaut no less! -- drive across country WEARING AN ADULT DIAPER (so she doesn't have to take bathroom stops), to avenge the loss of her man to another woman.

It's what makes an otherwise intelligent, successful man risk his entire family and career over a fling with a woman half his age.

Food for thought.


Starsky

[Mimi00]

"Always frame everything in the positive. Would that be a game? What makes something a game? If we are acting as if everything is great when we feel terrible is that not a game?"

No one said that you had to act "as if" everything were great.

Interesting, I understand acting "as if" to mean (for example) when you're WAS asks "How are you?" you say "I'm great"... even though you are really dying inside and you'd rather tell them how much you love them and want to make things work. Instead you say "I'm great" and paired w/ your GAL's they believe it's true; you show them you're moving on with or with out them.


Is that not correct?
If not then, geez.
The conversation I just had was my WAH an hour ago, w/ me trying to stick to the DB GAME-plan..... telling him all is well when he asked me how I was doing (since I've moved and live all alone w/ no family and friends), instead of being truthful, was wrong?

So there ARE times where I can be simply honest and say "Things have been really hard. I miss you."??? This is not what I've grown to understand. Hmmm.


I understand everyone's POV though, b/c my H bomb dropped AFTER I worked so hard w/ DBing. That's when I realized that the DB techniques are mainly for the LBS, to help make them a better person....

But when a book is titled Divorce BUSTING & Divorce REMEDY.... those picking the book up and naturally going to think the things inside are going to help bring thier spouse home and that's their goal, I don't think it's wrong for any one to use what they are learning to reach that goal. But it's best that the changes are permanent, b/c if they do bring the spouse home it needs to be legit in order to keep them there.

[2ndtimearoundCA]

"We begin dating others and truly moving on with our lives and the green-eyed monster reveals it’s ugly face and those brain chemicals kick in and finally our walk-away spouses have feelings for us again."

You're making pretty general statements. Just from what I've seen, this doesn't happen in the majority of cases. Jealousy doesn't make them come back.

I didn't mean to imply that it happens in the majority of cases. Just sometimes.

You're pretty off the mark in alot of your generalizations. I understand that you said you "read" DB when your first M was in trouble, but I don't think you understood what it was.

Please help me out here. But I am hoping to not make this thread about me. I would really love help with my situation which I am documenting Here

"I was more thinking about an entire spectrum of things that we could do or not do that lead us to be more attractive. sandi2's 37 rules would be examples."

First of all, these aren't Sandi's rules. They are written in the book.

I get that, but they are referred to as Sandi2's rules several places on this site. So I used that as a reference.

Second, the rules aren't done to "make you attractive". It's to help you cope through all the confusion with what's going on. It gives you something to concentrate on so you're not entirely thinking about your spouse.

Many of the rules do help us not be less attractive at the very least.

" What if we made a rule to never say anything negative to our spouse no matter what."

No one said you had to do that and obviously it's impossible.

"Always frame everything in the positive. Would that be a game? What makes something a game? If we are acting as if everything is great when we feel terrible is that not a game?"

No one said that you had to act "as if" everything were great. It's the act of respecting the other WAS's right to decide to D. You don't have to agree with it.
If you didn't change the behaviors or those things that your W said turned her off, then no amount of dating is going to get her back.

You have only been at this for a very short time, yet have gone out on several dates. That speaks less about your W and more about who you are. You don't need to date to be happy.

I am not sure what my dating says about me. Nonetheless, I am currently only dating my w and will be seeing her on Wednesday. I would love help with that, but again, I didn't want to make this thread about me.