Unlearning conflict avoidance 6

[Wonka]

Luke,

Try Googling "boundary setting worksheet"...you'll get tons of helpful resources and information. This would be a good place to start.

You ask this question:

Anyone else out there - what do you think? Confront or go with the paperwork flow?

I think you may be confusing confrontation with boundary setting. These two words mean a whole lot of difference.

i.e. your daughter has a pack of ciggies stashed in her bedroom drawer. you discover this while cleaning her bedroom and putting away the laundry. you discover the pack. you wait for daughter to come home and say, 'we need to have a talk.' then you reminder her about previous discussions about smoking, about the consequences...then you give her an opportunity to own up to the stashed ciggies. she declares that she does not have 'em. then you whip out the pack...and ask her..."are they yours?" BUSTED!!!

Now to the boundary issue. When W is being disrespectful or asking you to do things that you are not comfortable, then you state your boundary and then enforce it with consequences.

For example:

A parent does not allow a son or daughter to skip school. What are the consequences of that boundary being broken? Privileges are taken away...take away the car, banning phone calls, taking away iPad....you get the idea.

[JayMan]

I heartily agree. Being large and in charge doesn't mean you go in cussing her out, calling her names, etc - it simply means NO MORE.

I can recall with XW when she brought the guy she was sleeping with to my son's basketball game - we had been separated almost a year, but she wouldn't follow through with divorce. My parents were there, as well. She had said something about him coming, and I remember telling her that if she brought him, I would leave. I didn't threaten, yell, cuss, demean - none of that.

Up to this point, I had kissed her butt for EVERYTHING - always fearful I'd push here away. Well, she showed up with him, and I literally had the coach call a time out, pulled my son out, grabbed our coats and walked out. I remember being so scared I was literally shaking - so hard, my father had to drive my car for me.

W cussed me out, told me she would take me for everything I had, keep the kids, blah blah blah - but it was from that point on that I regained my manhood, and things started getting better. Two months later, she threw the guy out, and threw his stuff on her lawn after finding a text about him using her as a place to stay.

Obviously, we're divorced, but to this day, she defers to me, respects me, defends me against critics.

So stand up, man!

[Fartiltre]

Luke,

I have been following you for a long time but do keep in mind that I am not a VET!

I don’t see why Bonds suggestions make it impossible to go with the paperwork flow and I have to agree with him to some extent!
You need to stand up for yourselves! You have been told this over and over but something in you keeps you from doing this with W – you tell us you walk tall in town and around other people but it doesn’t seem like you do this around W! Not at all, in fact!
IMHO I am not sure that you can pull off what Bond suggest; but if you can do this, and especially if you feel like doing it and thereby can do it honestly – then go for it! Let it out! All of it!

Be sure that you don’t start using bad language and so – keep it straight and to the point – but let it out!

I don’t see why you can’t end a talk like that with telling W: “I am so done trying to give you happiness! I understand that you want to seek it by yourself and I won’t stand in your way anymore! So do get the paperwork done and give it to me. I will go over it quickly with my L and get back to you!
From, thereon work with her!

I find it very important that if you do this:
None of what you say can go against D.
Use I/Me statements to avoid getting to personal.
Express your feelings but don’t defend them.
Make it short!
Prepare and ending – she might want to start discussing afterwards but you have to end it! “W – I wasn’t looking to start any kind of discussion about this at the moment so please give it a rest from here!” She will properly say something like “You can’t state this without giving me a chance to reply!” – then just go with “If I choose, I can!”
You do it for you
You do it because you want to do it

But, Luke – this will be a challenge so make sure you are up for it!

I believe Coach (a late VET) asked “What would you do if this was not an emotional relationship but strictly business?”
Luke, that’s my question for you! No need to answer me – but do take to minutes to look at your M as a business. W is your business partner and M is your business! Happiness is your revenue. She has been treating you like this for so long – what would you do? What would you say? How would you feel?....you get the drift!


Do not follow the above before getting further advice!


All the best

F

[LuckyLuke]

What if wife insists that I do paperwork today? Just say no? Say this is a big thing and it can wait 4 weeks? L

[PatientMan]

What if wife insists that I do paperwork today? Just say no? Say this is a big thing and it can wait 4 weeks? L

Why would you change your answer if she insists?

-PM

[LuckyLuke]

Would not - just looking for more reasons why not.

[PatientMan]

Would not - just looking for more reasons why not.

You don't need any other reason and you don't need to explain yourself (especially more than once). Your answer is your answer.

-PM

[LuckyLuke]

Thx PM.

For the let it all out, how about this:

I have been kind generous and respectful.
She has been insulting judgemental and disrespectful.
I am done with being dissed. I will not tolerate such behavior anymore - no more insults glares and orders.

What else? L

[JayMan]

So you won't tolerate it; that's easy to say, what are you going to do if she "glares" at you?

Be careful not to cross from boundary to controlling. For example, you don't want to say, "Don't you ever glare at me again". instead, say, "If you can't have a respectful conversation with me, I'll leave the room." Then do it. In mid-sentence, if you have to.

And expect some blowback - the first 10 times you do this, you'll probably get horrible crap; but when you do it consistently and fairly with no emotion, you'll see a different pattern emerge.

[Accuray]

Luke,

I'm sorry it's come to this for you, I can tell you're in a lot of pain over it.

I posted to you over a year ago that you have nothing to lose and your sitch could not get any worse -- there's nothing she can do to you or take from you that she has not done or taken.

A year ago you stood up to her once and nothing bad happened, and I hoped you would build upon that. Instead, however, you have seemed convinced that if you just defer to her, appease her, and serve her enough, she will come around and suddenly appreciate you.

Do you see now that this will not, and can not, EVER work?

So why would you continue to do it?

You are a smart guy, if you were trying to solve a problem at work would you try to same failed approach over and over and over and hope for a different outcome?

It is time to do something different, drastically different, and I could not agree with Mr. Bond enough. Time to get angry. Time to tell her how you really feel and what you really think.

Be honest, be authentic, but I would stop short of being cruel.

I do believe your wife has suffered too. She did tell you exactly what she wanted, and what she wanted you to do, and you did not do it, in fact, you did the opposite. Does that make you at fault? In my view, no. You can't be something you're not. I don't think MWD would agree that two people can simply be incompatible, but I believe they can. I believe that your domineering father made being domineered "your comfortable place". You know how to cope with that, that is the way you seek to be abused.

I do believe you can find a woman who will appreciate you for who you are and how you are. You will not have to change to suit her, you will not have to man-up. You will be more than good enough exactly as you are. That woman, however, will not be domineering, so you will need to do the work on yourself to get to a place where you can be attracted to a partner who does not dominate you.

Between being the he-man your current wife desires, or understanding yourself enough to break the pattern of seeking abuse, I think the latter may be the better path.

If you agree, then I would consent to your wife's divorce request, and try to get it over with as quickly as possible to so you can move on. Personally I think you should also take Bond's advice and speak your mind. 10 years of no sex alone would be enough to make me go ballistic.

Whatever you do, I wish you well

Acc