Going to divorce mediator today. Do I cooperate with process or insist that we go to counseling? He has refused to go so far
I agree with Sandi, don't push for counseling. It never, ever helps with a WAS that is one or both feet out the door. Do cooperate with the process, but don't "give in". Make sure the settlement is acceptable to you. The general consensus here in the D process is cooperate, but don't do anything to help it along. IE, don't generate paperwork or anything but if you're asked for info then provide it, or if you need to sign something then do so.
Hi Sandi2,Anotherstander , mynewstrength and all Update: I have been following much of your and my coach's advice: I have been doing lots
of 180's, mainly being emotionally vulnerable to my H. Example: I explained why I
did the things I did in a mediation appt we had (i.e. I am terrified, sad and don't
want this divorce. That when I'm scared I get mean, and I am done being mean,
so I am going to tell him when I am scared.I am doing the best I can, and am
trying to accept what is happening, but I'm not very good at it. )My usual would
be to attack him. The reaction from H to this was positive. He literally asked if I
wanted a hug (YES!), told me loved me. I says "I love you" at the end of ever phone
conv now. BUT, he is still full steam ahead with divorce. Calling me to make next
mediation appt, etc. There doesn't appear to be any divorce busting going on, but
the power I have to change my actions and see how it makes peace and a real difference is monumental.
My coach said I might be in a "post-divorce" busting situation. He said some difficult/harsh thing to me in last session, which I am GRATEFUL that he did.
The pain is so deep, and I am working on forgiving myself. Really hard. I keep on going back to sandi's first post to me, and that helps. The sadness over the death of our beautiful family, and our love that was real, is intense. Simultaneously, I am forced to "protect myself" etc in divorce proceedings, which is a divided mind. When they ask "what I want" I want to say "just the man". Thank you for your support, I don't know how people get to the other side of this.
H:50 Me: 43 S 18,8 D 16,15 Married 1991 H moved out July 2013
Well, for some people cheating, or just lying of this magnitude is a deal breaker. However, my guess is that after 60 days your H is still in shock. Obviously fighting him on the divorce is not going to win you any points, but there are definitely ways you can slow the process down. And while I would encourage mediation, just make sure you keep a level head and get what's fair. I have seen people in your position, operating out of fear or guilt and dont want a divorce, give away the farm to try to keep their spouse from becoming angry at them. However this is totally counter productive. If you make the divorce nice and cushy, you are just reinforcing his decision to divorce. He needs to understand that you are not trying to hurt him even more nor trying to clean him out, but that a fair divorce will still hurt you, your children and him.
As far as you go, yes the 180 can be tricky for someone in your position. He still seems to be attached to you so I think you would be best served trying to protect that attachment - the full 180 would basically do the opposite. I would highly recommend that you get the books 'Love busters' by harley and either 'his needs her needs' or 'The 5 love languages' by chapman. Start with love busters, then concentrate on words of affirmation in the other book. From what you describe, he likes hearing people at work praise him, and then he would come home to you, and you would basically do the opposite. Case in point when you implied he was neglectful recently and he had a very negative reaction. If words of affirmation are important to him, then statements of judgement, nagging or complaining will cause him significant emotional pain and will lead to him distancing from you. In the 5LL, you will learn how to build connections to him by affirming him. 'Love busters' will show strategies of using positive reinforcement and respectful requests to address issues, and not using negative statements that usually cause more harm than good.
It definitely sounds like you had some legitimate grievances in your marriage, but I would bet good money that if you had known how to communicate your needs and legitimate complaints in positive ways, you would not be in this position today.
I just want to say Hi and let you know that I, too, had an A. I don't believe it is over for your H if he is telling you he loves you (just my personal opinion). It may go to divorce before your R, however, the fact that he is still saying that means a lot.
To start this on a happy note, my H and I are doing very well - today he left a rose and chocolate bar on my car (I am in school full-time and found it on break) and the other day he texted me to tell me how happy he is that we are working on our M.
I will be honest though and tell you that it took YEARS to get to the point where we could move forward. My A was 4 1/2 years ago, only lasted a few months, but we are only on a TRUE path to R in the last 4-5 months. Hopefully you can learn from my mistakes and make that time a lot shorter!
It was tough because every interaction we had after H discovered my A felt as if our bad M began the day I cheated. It never felt as if the years neglect, ignoring my request for more, to work on our M, etc. mattered. So in regards to your statement that there is "no point in rehashing it, your A trumps all", I disagree to an extent. Rehashing only helps so much, and for the most part stirs up bad feelings all around, however, you cannot lay this all on yourself. You both need to accept your roles in the downfall of your M.
I agree that you need a SINCERE apology. I apologized to H for years...followed by "but I only did it because you didn't care about me" or something similar. I didn't realize how much that negated my apology, I just didn't want 100% of the blame for the mess we were in. It wasn't until last spring when H was truly fed up, and we quit any R talk at all, that I looked within. What I realized by focusing on me was not that it was all my fault, but where my H was coming from. It didn't excuse his part but it made me able to understand how he felt by my actions. It took 4 years to learn this (unfortunately) but at that point I apologized without justification and it started us on the path to recovery and reconciliation.
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As far as WHY I had the affair, I was not open enough with my husband. I had shut off my heart from him, bc I felt like he was undependable/absent. I should have gone to his workplace in the evening, bring him dinner etc to at least connect with him somehow. Lord knows all of my fussing didn't work, and drove him away. I should have done certain things to make myself happy (that might have angered him) like go on vacation with the kids without him (I used to do that when I realized we would never go as a family), or buy a TV (we haven't had one for 5 years bc it "is bad for kids"). Certainly not deal breakers. But instead I shut down
It is easy to second guess yourself and think of what you could have done. I know that I had done every thing I could think of to engage my H in our M and truly felt he had no interest. Did he? Apparently. I am just saying, I am sure you did what you could and you worked with your R skills. We all are lacking in them, at least prior to finding DB/DR.
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When we went to counseling before my affair I compared his relationship with work as "an affair". I was jealous of his love for his work, the time and thought he put into it. And then I got angry, a real seething anger. That was probalby what set me over the edge. The OM was more than willing to spoil me with attention and time, and once I felt that, I was hooked. It was 60 days before it got physical, but I was hooked before that.
I understand this very well. When you feel unloved for years, it is easy to fall for someone else.
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No exit plan prior to A, never thought of having an A or leaving. I re read Sandi2, and the part about proving myself rang true.
I was that person who judged people and thought "why don't they leave before doing that", in fact, 2 weeks before my A began my BEST FRIEND told me she was talking to her ex-bf and I told her she had to make a decision about her M BEFORE doing anything. TWO WEEKS. I NEVER thought I would cheat - until I did. One night, I was with OM and nothing happened but I knew I was having feelings for him, I told H I needed to know how he felt about me and he said "I feel like I don't want to talk about it" and he left the house, got in his car and drove away. The next time I saw OM, I cheated. I felt scared, sad and thought I was horrible..then H continued to ignore me and I did it again. Each time it became easier until I fell in love with OM. That led to years of confusion over what I wanted!
I point this out because a lot of people call the WAW/cheater selfish. I do not think you are selfish, I understand how this can happen, how one thing can make you clam up and hold your feelings inside or make you spill them and feel ignored. Is being an unloving, work obsessed spouse who doesn't meet their partners needs for years any less selfish? NO. One is a slow agonizing death (yours) and one is a quick, painful death (his). Accept your part, let H figure out and accept his.
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The sorrow for what I have to us is devastating. He is so done with me. He will never love me again. I killed his love and I ruined my precious family.
I felt the same way. The ONLY thing that made a difference was looking deep inside, figuring out what I wanted, cutting ALL ties with OM, giving a SINCERE apology to H and showing him the best side of me over and over until it became ME.
BTW, cutting all ties made me think of your earlier post where you said you didn't know if you wanted to give him full access electronically until he fully committed. You are the one with something to prove to him (honesty, commitment, faithfulness), he may not be looking for this right now but if he is, you need to give it to him. Look at it this way - even if he isn't fully committed, how does it hurt you? The only way it does is if you are trying to string OM along in case your M doesn't work out. I did this, trust me, it doesn't work. Cut him loose and focus 100% on your M.
M 46 H 44 D 12 S 8 M 9 T 11 BD 2/15/13 "Makes sense to stay together" 5/12/13 Agree we are 'healing' 7/13 Definitely Piecing 9/13
Hi all,and LHT. Thank you for continued support. LHT I appreciate your words of hope, and I am glad you are your H are sweet to each other, chocolate yum! My H is telling me "he is anxious" to get divorced quickly and is pressuring me to make appt with lawyer/mediator.
I have cut all ties to OM, finally. It was not a clean break, but my H had walked out and I went back to the OM bc he wanted me, was kind and comforting. Now I see my H was testing me, and I failed the test. H was telling me our M was over, but really seeing what I would do. Now..... The 180's that he seems to really respond to are when I am really vulnerable and honest, exposing my fears, weaknesses etc. His reaction is remarkable. But he plows forward with divorce. I still get I love you's, but they are followed by divorce business talk. He totally denies that this is going to be bad for our kids. He asks me to tell kids certain things and that is the 180 that is killing me. I don't believe "everything will be ok" for our kids. They are going to suffer the effects of this divorce for the rest of their lives. Do we do 180's we don't believe in? Say it bc it's what they are NOT expecting? (agreement) I need suggestions for seeing one's own weak spots where the 180 is needed and necessary. Anyone have brilliance for me?
