NEW LIFE / NEW ME - TAKING OFF!

[Fartiltre]

Sandi,

There has been something I've been watching closely. I've seen how it has become easier for you to not see her face to face. However, I am concerned you may have come to a point of wanting to avoid her...hoping to bypass conversations where you are not confident in answering her questions.

IMO, a man cannot present himself in a confident, manly manner if he cannot hold eye contact. There are several negatives related to not keeping eye contact.

Act and speak with confidence!

I have this eye-contact, self-confidence, awkward feeling/problem around her and her only!
I am a happy smiling guy and since I finally understood the GAL-issue some time ago I feel I have done quite well in this area. It hasn’t been that much the last 3-4 weeks but that’s mainly because of the surgery. I have changed my exterior quite a lot: New haircut, new teeth and new style in clothing. I am working me and feeling good about it.
….but you are still totally right: I need to be able to show her a confident man, living and enjoying life as a man and as a farther! The best about this is that this is who I strive to become and the worst part is that I still have to act-as-if in several matters especially around her.

I am trying to avoid her! I do not feel good around her! Last time was the best since LRT started.
I totally agree on the eye-contact! A part of my job is coaching sales-people so I do get you but the confidence is my problem! The better I understand all of me, all of this and my sit the more confidence I built and I will get better in time.

I had hoped that you could hold out until she invited you to meet with her, without the kids.

Just tell me to hold out– then I will!!
I have no problem turning her request down and just add patience.
She is building up steam these weeks but I am not afraid of her or her reactions and at the same time it will be easier for me to hold this for a while longer. I am still getting stronger every day and I hope to be rid of the bacteria in 10 days or so. Then I can start exercising and stand taller. (I am not well at all! Tomorrow they will properly judge if I need a second surgery)

“Well, isn’t that’s what we are”

I felt good about this one as well – I have been walking eggshells for so long and it felt good to just state my opinion in one simple sentence. No validating, no carefulness, no nothing – just my true and honest opinion. I wasn’t trying to put her down or anything – it just came out of me because that’s how I feel and interpret the situation. I was totally natural stating this and that also made me feel good. When I left her place I even caught myself thinking that I need to this a little more often.

Yes, she is beginning to get angry. I told you to expect it. However, (as I have already pointed out the reasons)...if she is not seeing you as a confident man who is busy spending time GAL, then you are not gaining ground by declining her invitations. If she sees you in any other light other than a free, attractive, happy, confident man...(who has been unavailable to her)...then, you aren't accomplishing your goal. See what I mean? You need to be all those things.

You sure did tell me and I am expecting that! The part you wrote about her being a MAJOR cake-eater is so obvious to me now. I understand it, I believe I see the why, the how and it all. That’s a good feeling because this takes away confusion and that a major enemy to me (and something I will have to work on). I need to understand before I can act with confidence – that why I have turned into this little babbling boy around her! What I need is to put the focus 100% on me and I am getting closer and closer towards this these weeks.
I haven’t told her anything about what I have been up to – but she knows a lot! Mutual friends and children’s keep her informed.
I do see what you mean and I am working hard on all issues. I feel I have grown a lot, but I still have A LOT of work to do!

You may receive advice that does...or does not agree with me. Don't let it bog you down in fear of doing the wrong action, b/c you'll end up just avoiding everything. If you are guided by fear instead of confidence, she will not respond in a good way.

I think the fact that others chime in on this is so good for several reasons. It gives different perspectives, new ideas, new thoughts and so on – but at the same time it challenges the path I have chosen and every path should be challenged. As I see DB/DR they can be interpreted in a lot of ways – the big lines are pretty solid but from there on you have to choose. All the caring people in here are on the same big line but all have their personality, their beliefs, religion, experience…etc… that’s one of the reason this forum is a darn good place to be!
I will make my own calls but as I have already told you I am following your advice pretty strictly until I tell you otherwise and I am not even close to being there! I am not guided by fear but I am moving ahead with caution and patience.

Since she said it could be at your place or "anywhere", why don't plan to have them over to your house. You have made a lot of changes around there since she's left. I think it would be a good time to let her see. Don't point anything out to her. Trust me, she'll notice everything that's different.

Few questions to this one:
So forth everything has turned out more or less exactly as you predicted but are you absolutely sure this should be done now?
I ask this because I am not! I understand what AS and T wrote but I am not sure this is the time. Last time I saw her and children was on aug. 13 for breakfast. She has asked several (6 +/- 1) times since then about us doing something together. I told her that we couldn’t be friend’s aug. 21
If I get back to her and tell her that I do not believe this is the time for a get-to-gether she will properly get angry. I am not out to make her angry or pi$$ her off but to me – right now – that’s her feeling to deal with. I am feeling better and better every day and I still don’t believe this will do the children any good right now. They are adjusting right now and family time will risk setting them back!
Writing this – I feel like stating exactly this to W! (W, I don’t think this is the time for a get-to-gether! The children are adjusting to their new life and right now I fear the risk of setting them back. She will ask why and try to argue!)

I will still follow your advice but this one I need to understand this! Why now?

If it should be done then I do not feel like her coming to my home yet!
This is my home but it doesn’t look like that yet. It is true I have done a lot but I still need to do more! As an example the old tag with our names is still on the door. I have ordered a new one but delivery is 4-6 weeks so still 3 or so to go. I am also working heavily on some old oak-planks turning them into table and shelves in the kitchen!
At the same time you have to know that the changes I made are for me! She will hate several of them!

If we are to meet up I would like to do it on neutral grounds and with a deadline meaning that something will happen and break up the party after a certain amount (few hours) of time. It could be a meet up on a Wednesday before D6 attending GS. It could be a café with cake and hot drinks or something like that. A movie on a Saturday afternoon and then home (alone) for dinner. I could tell her to find a good movie and we could see it all together at the cinema.

Christmas

We are going to prepare for that subject now.

What to do?
I need to do something about this matter as soon as possible. It is blowing in the wind right now and that means I can’t make any appointments – I want this dealt with. I am not certain how W looks at this anymore – but she has stated several times that we should spend Christmas evening together. I even think she stated her staying here over night from 24 to 25 – long time ago. Same goes for New Year.


Finally I want you to know that I get your points about the low voice.

Thanks

F

[back56]

F,

I think you are doing an amazing job. And I love Sandi's advice. It seems to me since you are still recovering from your surgery and not knowing exactly where you stand there with some complications, that you could put off a time of meeting with her due to your physcial recovery. I really think some time is warrented for you to feel better physically and your W should understand this.

Right after my D was finalized, I did not want to see or have any contact with my H. I felt ok about that because it was about my own needs. I am just now at two months out allowing myself to have some exposure to him. And I am caustiously allowing this and testing it somewhat. I understand the whole idea that you don't want to let too much time go by or too many opportunities for interaction with her to pass before you extend yourself a little, but man, you did just go through a major surgery and you need to be at the top of your game physically and mentally when you interact with her.

I'm having the same dilemma with the Christmas arrangements as you and feeling some pressure about an advanced game plan, even thought my boys are much older than your children. It is hard. The balance of what is best for the children, and what is healthy for you and not indulging the cake eating WAW spouse who just wants everything to be fine. Just know that you are not alone in this. I am not sure there is any perfect plan that will cover it all. Stay the course. You are doing really well in your work. You have the attention of great support.

Back56

[Fartiltre]

W sent me two emails yesterday evening.
I didn’t see them until this morning and I haven’t replied.

First one at 19.45 is a picture of her hand hold a drawing that D4 made. Only text is “Goodnight from D4”

Second one at 19.47 is a picture showing a small note reading only “DAD”. It is Ws handwriting and D4 has drawn a little on it. Only text in this mail is “One more goodnight :-)”

[Fartiltre]

Labug,

I think you and I have different a viewpoint.

I agree, but please note that this doesn’t mean for me not to respect you and your viewpoints.

I also do believe that there is some misinterpretation in this!

That's why we need to focus on the only thing we can control.

I am not even close to the place where you are but I am moving towards a place where the doings and sayings of W affect me less. This doesn’t mean that I don’t or won’t try to understand her feelings, motivations, reasons and doings and at the same time adjust somewhat in regards of these. I do that with my children, friends and everybody!

I don’t see this as getting wrapped up in what she is saying or doing. Furthermore I do not think that looking at her motives, reasons etc. is me trying to control her. I see it as me trying to gain an understanding that will make me able to make a better choice or decision. What I am saying is that the environment around a decision influences the decision…that’s all!

We might see others as gameplayers because we ourselves operate from that same place.

I understand your view on this point is different than mine. I see many of the things I DBing as playing a game: We talk about DB being counterintuitive, the game of pursuer/distance, keep up the PMA all though feeling otherwise, GAL all though you feel like staying at home and so on. I see this as acting or gameplaying – but if this is done with heart and soul I do not see anything wrong in that. Hopefully it will sink in and become a natural part of the gameplayer/actor.
I do not see this as negatives – I see it as trying to gain an understanding of the dynamics in a D or R and how it affects us and then act accordingly to this, but still within our own boundaries, beliefs, values and so on.

The above doesn’t imply that I am trying to manipulate or control something or anybody – I know you will be able to interpret it as that, but that’s not the meaning of my words.
When we find ourselves in this situation at first we all look for the magic wand – that’s the tool of manipulation or control. Afterwards we realize that this is not to be found and we start the work! That’s where I am right now! I am working me but still looking at my surrounding’s: kids, W, friends, family and so on!
I realize that I properly won’t understand that much ever, but I will still search because the searching itself still provides knowledge and clarification.

We have met the enemy and he is us.

Understood and agreed upon – but I don’t see this applying to the above.

I don’t know if I misinterpreted your post (or perhaps you interpreted my post in Ts thread in another way that I intended when I wrote it) but I do read it as you saying I am trying to control, that I am playing games in a negative way and that the enemy is within me. I do see it otherwise and hope the above explains my POV.
It is hard for me to explain this in short and in English so let me finish by stating that I respect you and your POV deeply and I will remember your words.



JonF,

Thanks for the 2 cents.
It seems like we have the same perception. I have seen a lot from S10 during the years and I think deep down he still hopes for me and XW1 to get together.
It is hard on them and it’s for life!


Back56,

YES – I do have the attention of great advice! I wouldn’t say major surgery – just surgery and I am recovering.
Thanks for the kind words.

[sandi2]

I have been concerned you were rushing the initial recovery time necessary after surgery. Now there might be a second one? Please do not plan any excerise before discussing it with your doctor and what type to do until you have completely healed.

[sandi2]

"I think the fact that others chime in on this is so good for several reasons. It gives different perspectives, new ideas, new thoughts and so on – but at the same time it challenges the path I have chosen and every path should be challenged"

But when you respond to different advice/opinions by saying it confuses you, then I get concerned. As you have told me more than once, you need to understand the whys and how's to do to it. Even though there are some things I may not know how to explain to your satisfaction, this is your life and the decisions are yours to make.....in everything. And I agree that others chiming in does give different perspectives, which is good as long as it doesn't mess with your mind to the point of not knowing which way to go. We all need to hear what others have to say and then each of us make our own decisions.

"So forth everything has turned out more or less exactly as you predicted but are you absolutely sure this should be done now?"

No, I am not absolutely sure.

"I will still follow your advice but this one I need to understand this! Why now?"

B/c it has been seven weeks.......averaging about one invitation & rejection per week, but mainly b/c of your plans for Christmas. The closer the time gets to December before you accept an invitation, the more likely she will feel you set her up just to spring your request to get the kids for that holiday. If my H did that to me....I would be more than furious! This would be like cutting off your nose to spite your face! You have already said you will have to wait longer, now, before saying anything about Christmas. Your time will be getting too short too quickly and you will find yourself in a very bad spot.

You know she is going to be upset when you tell her you do not plan to share the holiday with her (which I agree), but if your timing is off, it could backfire and you be set back in your journey. Remember, just a very short time ago, you could not bear the thought of going through Christmas any differently than the past years with her. She is still under the impression it will be the entire family gathered around the tree Christmas morning.

It is one thing for her to get upset the you are rejecting some weekly time with her and the kids.....but it is another matter when it all snowballs into a huge mess at the end of the year and you don't understand what you did wrong. Timing, F, good timing is everything!

The reason I suggested your house is b/c she needs to see those little changes. You want to have the entire place fixed, when all that's necessary is for her to notice the names have been removed from the door. In fact, it would probably have more impact than the flooring changed, IMO. However, it's fine if you want to choose another place. I do think something with a planned beginning and ending is a good idea.

Please take care of yourself and get well very soon!

[lovethehub]

"Yes, she is beginning to get angry. I told you to expect it. However, (as I have already pointed out the reasons)...if she is not seeing you as a confident man who is busy spending time GAL, then you are not gaining ground by declining her invitations. If she sees you in any other light other than a free, attractive, happy, confident man...(who has been unavailable to her)...then, you aren't accomplishing your goal. See what I mean? You need to be all those things."

F, when I read this it puts a picture in my mind. Have you ever met someone (guy or girl) and you think "wow, Insould really like to get to know this person better", or you see someone, or a few people, that seem like they are so happy and having so much fun you want to be with them even if you don't really know them?? That's what you want to leave W with every time you see her!

[back56]

I agree with lovethehub's comments. The second paragraph stikes a chord with me based on an experience I have had recently. Through my work contacts I have recently met a woman who exudes a PMA. And while being female myself and not drawn to a female sexually in any way, I would love to be around this person more because of the energy and positive vibs she gives. I had a meeting with her today and thought, wow, I want to be more like her and would love to live my life with her exuberance and positive aura. She is a person who draws people toward her and those who have the privilege of the encounter are richer for it. That's what I want to be with or without my husband. I want to get to know this woman and would love to have some time with her. That being said, it's not about being a positive upbeat person to draw others in.......it's more about being stellar for ourselves. That is SO rewarding and subsequently attractive to all we encounter. Sorry.....on a roll.

[Fartiltre]

I replied to the two emails from W yesterday evening:

Hi D4
Thanks for sending me those fine drawings – I got very happy when I received them
I hope you have had a nice day and that you played well with rest of the owls – uh uhhhhh :-)
Dad

(Her group at kindergarten is called ”the owls”)


Sandi,

I understand what you are saying about the importance of timing but converting this into actual doings is hard. I believe it is the lack of experience but I will pay more attention to this from here on.

I have been concerned you were rushing the initial recovery time necessary after surgery. Now there might be a second one? Please do not plan any excerise before discussing it with your doctor and what type to do until you have completely healed.

If they decide to drain the infection I will be back in full anesthesia and cut open once more. I was at the doctor yesterday (I have to see them every second day) and they are quite pleased with the healing so right now it looks like I will be able to avoid a second surgery. If healing continues this way I will properly be able to exercise in two weeks.
I try to follow advice from doctor but I have a hard time doing nothing.

But when you respond to different advice/opinions by saying it confuses you, then I get concerned.

I can see why with my history – my fault, sorry! The confusion isn’t anything like it used to be! I will stick with your advice and just keep doing what we have agreed upon.

However, it's fine if you want to choose another place. I do think something with a planned beginning and ending is a good idea.

I will follow your advice and invite W to my home on Saturday afternoon around 3PM. I have a cardgame with some local guys in the evening so W will have to leave before dinner. That means three hours max.
I will make the house and myself look nice without going over the top! Having GAL means a good excuse for me to be in nice clothes and so on.
I will focus entirely and totally on making this afternoon a joy for the children. Boardgame, waffles and so on, but I will stick with normal things.

If she declines/can’t make it – and some part of me hopes she does – I will stall on making another appointment right now.

I will call her tomorrow and invite her. When I do that, I will also ask her to bring the items of mine that she has in her possession and possible bring up the bill she will have to pay.


LTH,
I am so happy for you! Reading your thread makes me smile!

F, when I read this it puts a picture in my mind. Have you ever met someone (guy or girl) and you think "wow, Insould really like to get to know this person better", or you see someone, or a few people, that seem like they are so happy and having so much fun you want to be with them even if you don't really know them?? That's what you want to leave W with every time you see her!

Yes, I have met these people and I believe that at the time I met W I was one of them – that’s a long time ago!
I totally get the picture of the man I have to show W. It is not the understanding that will be the problem – it is the doing! I am not even close to feeling like this guy so I will have to act it out and that’s a hard mission. I feel like I am getting closer being this guy (and I want to!!!) but when he is combined with the friendly neighbor and XH stating boundaries it is surely a fine line. I am trying to adjust my self-image towards this every day.


Back,

.it's more about being stellar for ourselves. That is SO rewarding and subsequently attractive to all we encounter

Well said!

[Fartiltre]

W called today at 11AM and told me about D4 visiting the doctor for a routine vaccine.
When she was done I tried to end the call but she asked about my surgery. I explained how I am doing and ended the call afterwards.
Talk was nice and light. She was very talkative. Lasted 3-4 min.

I just keep on being the nice neighbor. I have increased my comments and questions slightly.


I also met up with a friend that had met W earlier today. She had mentioned to this friend about her hopes for me, her and the children to meet up more than we do. She stated something like "I know I am the one who left but still.....". This is a very distant person to her but quite close to me.
I asked him about what she said and then it hit me that there is no purpose to this. I can’t do anything about it and me knowing won’t change anything what so ever and if so, properly for the worse. I won't go down that road again.
It’s still a little annoying that she is picturing me as being the bad guy, but that feeling will be gone tomorrow.