So he approaches things very timidly, typically as a complaint or a problem. My response is usually first empathy. Complaint continues. My next response is a question, like, "how do you think it could be fixed?" It continues, as he doesn't have a solution. I then make a suggestion, to which he has a reason why that solution won't work or why the problem really isn't a problem and doesn't matter. To which I will then open up and make a clarification that, the issue is his. That where he is an the reason for the problem is his choice and not mine, and I am comfortable with his decision and choice on this matter. And then he will make a move of reconnection. At that point he will move towards me. No further discussion. He will not ask if he can. At that point when it has been acknowledged that it is his choice, he will just start doing it.
This is my H to a T. It always starts as a complaint, to which I became numb too and ignored because I didn't know how to "fix" it. And it became Charlie Brown's teacher in my ear Wah wah wah wah wah, zoned out. Now, I know to let him complain and encourage him to speak more. Your situation seems a bit ahead of mine but on a similar path, so I find your postings very inspiring and helpful. Thanks Raine. I will continue to lurk on your threads
Me:49 H:47 S: 16 T:27 M:25 My EA: 2001 His PA: 10/2007, 6/2013 Separated, but H still in house
Find your Shambala: a place of peace and happiness.
Hey Pretty Wonka! 1) Are you two sleeping in the MBR on a regular basis now? Yes. Every night since that night about three weeks ago. We were out of town for a week, and he spent every night in the same bed, including three nights in a small double bed when there was another bed available. It has gotten physical...he is instigating it. 2) Is either one of you wearing your wedding ring? Nope.
3) Is H still reaching out to you go play online games? Yes. And I'm not too great about always doing it, but see if I do, he plays right back. I don't start any of the games. He has to.
4) Where are the OWs? Any contact with them? There has been some limited contact that I know of. Nothing in person, but there has been some messaging, that would be friend-like only. I think with OW4 perhaps to make sure she was okay, because he stopped talking to her and ignored all her msgs for three months. That however turned upsetting to me because she wanted to know if he was trying to work things out with me, and he said no, he is only working on himself and he wasn't ever happy in our R, so he doesn't see how that would fix anything. I am pretty sure that OW1 has given the heave-ho. 5) Is H more involved with the baby? Yes very much so. He has even changed a few diapers this month, which is something he did a lot with the other boys, but never did with baby until a few weeks ago.
How's the Fonzie the Bear goin' for you?! So I took off the night of my birthday, because he made it pretty clear he didn't plan to do anything for me and was even thinking of going out himself. He was upset at me for a day or so, wouldn't look at me, but he still slept in the bed the next night and put a pillow between us. But he has been okay since then, usually rubbing his feet on mine or holding me at night. I reciprocate but don't instigate. And he doesn't do anything outside of the bed, like hugging me goodbye or hello. He only shows affection outside of being in bed at night if I get hurt or I'm upset.
Big things:
1 - He invited me to his work for lunch with his parents. This is the first time I have ever been invited. We never went anywhere near the offices, but still shocking he would invite me to where OW1 is.
2 - He asked me to get a babysitter for two nights next week when his parents are gone. He wants to go out to dinner just us and he wants me to go down to hang out with his friends on his normal night. He has never invited me to do that before. That is his night and his friends.
Okay so all this is happening, but yet what I'm hanging onto is words like, "He was never happy in our R." I'm guessing I don't want to get hurt again. I can honestly say there are zero expectations, because I'm just not acting very positively about it. I guess I just assume everything can change in an instant. And I don't trust much at all because his parents are here and it all could be an act.
M38,H39 M:16Y BD:8/12 OWDB:11/12 S:11/12-5/13 "Temp" home:6/13 OW dropped:9/13 "I love you":12/13 H ring on:2/14 Depression back:5/15 "I'm done:" 7/15 H moved out: 3/16 H moved back: 12/16 Working on us: 3/17
Based on the info you provided in answer to my questions, it appears that H is tentative in jumping back in the M relationship. In a strange way, he's guarding his own heart against potential rejection by you. In my view, he needs tons of reassurances from you that rejection will never happen nor take place before he's fully settled in. The other thing that I am thinking as a former MLCer is the BIG concern over any perceived scorekeeping on mistakes made during fog.
This is not to say that we all get a free pass on some of the awful stuff we did to the WAS and families. Internally, we do KNOW that we have made our share of mistakes and feel remorseful for these incidents. This ONLY APPLIES to kitty kitten MLCers. Not applicable to those with Jekyll/Hyde actions/behaviors! Based on my own experience, although I was pretty much numb throughout the crisis, the caring part of me lay deeply buried inside me. Time and space have allowed me to view my misdeeds, when I am able to recall them, and I do feel regret. I'd hate for Ms. Wonka or others to dredge those perceived slights, hurts, pain ad nauseum because IT now hurts me to see that you hurt too.
If Ms. Wonka had been of of you awesome standers, what would have helped me gain confidence and feel assured that I am "welcome" back in the fold is some non-sexual touches. Raine, I am thinking it would be good for you to initiate them so your H feels that his affections are reciprocated. Perhaps be a bit more playful in the beginning such as reaching out for his head as you walk by and rub his hair.
Another thing I would suggest is to schedule family-only activities 1x a week or every two weeks to encourage bonding for all of you. Chuck-E-Cheese, playing a fun board game. Or even arrange some 1:1 activity for H with kids. To this day, I have very, very fond memories of doing fingerpainting sessions with my father or playing Diddly Twinkles. You get the idea of what I am driving at here, Raine.
It speaks volumes when H wants the babysitter to come in so you guys can go out for dinner. This indicates to me that H is feeling okay about being in close proximity to you without any external distractions. I'd be very interested in hearing about what H does and says during those nights out. That will give you a clue as to his thought process and current state of mind in respect to his place in the family and as your H.
I'd hold off on the wedding ring thing for a while. A part of me thinks you putting on yours on New Year's Day as a "new beginning" and it will be a show of acceptance to your H in a nonverbal way. That'd be big to me if Ms. Wonka had done that. Funny, we MLCers, do watch and see what happens after the fog lifts from our heads. Your H is looking to you for cues which is why I stress the importance of acting as mentors to the MLCer who is slowly finding his/her way back to the M and family unit.
Wonka, great post. I learn a lot from your experience of MLC.
Raine, I just wanted to tell you something that popped into my heard while I was reading your update. Your H’s words that he is only working on himself and that he was never happy in your R could mean that is what he fed OW when he was with her. To me, it does look like he is trying to “work things out” with you, but just doesn’t want to admit it to her. Just my opinion.
M:50 H:52 S28 (my S from previous marriage) M:17 + 3 BD: 06/12 S: 06/12 - H works in another state
sounds like a couple positive little things to me- good luck with it all- know the "protect self" feeling- but can proceed with caution - rite???
hope it is something good in the works - well, better, well, somthing that isn't bad - rite???
what? shell shocked and "burned" before- ta da. do the best yoa can withit- lots of interesting advice/input floating in to your "land" . i'm sure we'll all watch with interest ....
Okay so all this is happening, but yet what I'm hanging onto is words like, "He was never happy in our R." I'm guessing I don't want to get hurt again.
I do want to circle back and address the generalized comment of "s/he was never happy in our R" and put that to rest for you standers.
When viewed from the prism of my own MLC, I felt weighed down by the enormity of the day-to-day responsibilities and the world suffocating me to a slow death, I apportioned the vast majority of my blame to Ms. Wonka as I perceived her to be the source of my problem. That is the faulty thinking and rationalizing of the MLCer. When I was 10-feet in deep fog, the world looked bleak to me and I wanted to get the hell AWAY from my marital home as I viewed it as the primary source of my unhappiness.
That is the blinkering mess of innards coming out all over the place from C-3PO.
Which is why it is CRITICALLY IMPORTANT to ignore all silly blather from the MLCer about "never being happy" because it is THE MAIN feeling at that moment. As you all know, feelings can be transient like a passing cotton candy cloud. They come and go.
I would bet if rH asks her H this question sometime today/this week and he'll say "Yeah...that was how I felt at that time. But now...I'm happy and content. And I do have happy memories of our marriage."
Raine, please release these words "never happy in the R" as it has no place in your head space as it is a waste of mental energy.
Raine, Things are still heading in a positive direction. Wonka has some really great ideas. My H does not seem to be ready for those things. I'm so glad yours is.
Has your H ever done these things then slid back? My H invited me to a wedding and we went on a "date" and then kind of slid back. He is going back and forth with OW too. I think if he would just stop seeing her he could get through this. Any thoughts on that Wonka?
I'm glad that the OW's seem to be on the outs. What do you think finally did it for him? How i s his personality? My H is like a jekyl/hyde and I find it hard not to take it personally. He gets so mean sometimes.
Sorry to hijack Raine. Wonka has some great thoughts since she has gone through this herself. It is so awesome to hear it from someone who knows first hand.
M 48 H 50 M 25 T 27 D 20,18,15 6/11 H filed 3/12 H dropped 4/12 H moved out
He is going back and forth with OW too. I think if he would just stop seeing her he could get through this. Any thoughts on that Wonka?
Breaking away from OW/OM is a very difficult and complicated process as it is an addiction like dopamine for the MLCer/WAS. The OW has a role in this too as she is probably trying to pull H back with histrionics, demands and ultimatums when she senses H wanting to pull away. That's a very unhealthy dynamic which is why it is vital to be the steady, stable rock for H to return back home.
You need to present a strong contrast to the OW as a steady and stable person that is loving yet firm. We do all miss the essence of the stander and that is the major reason we return to home because nothing "out there" compares to the spouse at home. MCLers are trying to "fix" their own unhappiness by seeking external distractions such as OWs/OMs, changing their appearances, experimenting in new things, seeking new locations, and other types of adventures.
They're like teenagers flipping the bird at you and telling you guys that "you're not the boss of me!" It'll take a while to get all of the MLC angst out of their system and settle down.
Wait this all out, smile serenely and just do your own thing, Complicated. Easier said than done...I know!
just roaming thru this a.m. - you sure are doing great and staying on top of all this stuff. it's such a stinking balancing act- reading your update i feel it all myself- the thinking, stepping, trying not to mis-step, whew---
nice job. kids know and feel sooooo much. most people just don't (i think) give them such full credit for "understanding" about trouble it may be intuitive with them rather than ability to articulate- but it's there nevertheless. i see even with my neice - sometimes i think she comes over to lend support. i could be wrong- she doesn't say it out loud- i just can sens it- her motivation. i don't chat about r- she's too young to need to know my dreary crappola-
they're amazing little humans aren't they? hope it all goes well
Easier said than done...I know!