Unlearning conflict avoidance 7

[makingmagic]

Luke... why does T want you to start touching? I don't'understand. I thought we were supposed to give "SPACE". Although, I personally tried this on my H a little over a week ago (I was desperate for some touching)... he did not cringe or pull back, which is what he was doing before...but then what do you do? It is not my place to pursue h. It really needs to come from his desires, not mine!

Anxious to hear why you are asked to pursue from your T

[LuckyLuke]

MM, GM23,

T's thought was that touch is what my W wants (something like 'gather your woman in your arms, her secret craving') and that it is a way for me to express my love for her. Yes, it is pursuing, but it is also that which hasn't happened for so long and so a sort of 180. T specifically recommended 180s, and this was the first example that came up.

GM, I've been debating what comes first too. W may be home tomorrow (she doesn't work some Wednesdays), and it is possible that she will ask me if I've had time to think about getting a D. She wants this to be mutual (when all your kids are at least 16 in Sweden, you can instantly get a D if both spouses agree. D turns 16 in early March). I guess this is because of the narrative she wants to create about it.

I can envision a response along the lines of

"I am very sorry for the hurt and loneliness I've caused you. I am not at an emotional place though where I can agree to a D. Doing so would feel like mutilating myself. I hope you understand.'

The first sentence seems very important in the above, as it is intended to validate her feelings and penetrate her heart.

Yes, respect is important in our R. I have prepared a short speech on that, but perhaps a case by case pushback is better.

d15 and W are at their respective schools, house is all quiet.

Luke

[MrBond]

"T's thought was that touch is what my W wants (something like 'gather your woman in your arms, her secret craving') and that it is a way for me to express my love for her. "

You do understand that this is what we suggested to you over a year ago and you were too afraid to. The problem is that at that time, she was practically asking for it, but now that window of opportunity has closed.

She sees you as a cuckold and incidentally so does your D. They both feel they can walk all over you, and quite honestly you talk about flowers A LOT which isn't what your W wants in a man. She tells you to do things that a hired butler would do.

IMHO I would not touch her. She's made that VERY clear right now. But you don't have anything to lose, I guess. I would actually start going out with someone else before she does to show that you are a masculine man. And start acting like it.

Just my 2 cents.

[LuckyLuke]

The way things are is neither good nor how I want them to be, that is clear, so if she insists on remaining so cold, then yes, D or at least separation is a response.

Yes, right now it causes me pain (and I imagine her also) to be together.

Perhaps I am too sentimental and unrealistic.

What do you think of the other three sentences, taking out the self mutilation part?

[MrBond]

I think you're being overdramatic again and not acting as a man should act. PLUS what you're thinking of doing is not going to be a turn on for your W. I mean would you want someone who says they will self-mutilate themselves? That's dumber than dirt, as they say.

Throwing yourself onto a sword and acting the martyr will not do any goo.

[LuckyLuke]

So how about the other three sentences? I am not thinking of mutilating myself, just felt like a D would be similar.

A man does what in this situation? What would you say to my W if she asks tomorrow?

[MrBond]

"A man does what in this situation?"

A man would stop asking others what to do and stop gardening for his W.

"What would you say to my W if she asks tomorrow?"

It doesn't matter what I would say. It's obvious you want to tell her that while she wants a D, you don't so you will not help her get it. But you will not stop her because you won't control her actions. That's what you want to do, so do it.

If not, then do what YOU want to do. Stop asking and start doing. This is why you blew your chance with the physical touch. You kept debating it so much that you actually talked yourself out of it.

[LuckyLuke]

I am not gardening for my W, plus, unmanly as it may seem, I like tulips and garden work. Beats sitting at my PC anytime.

[LuckyLuke]

Mr. B,

I did not see your earlier post regarding touching her and flowers. I think the only thing to do is be strong. I disagree with the going out thing, as it will just 'legalize' her doing so also. I will do other things, for me, but not date. I'll touch her if the situation comes up again. Finally, I've thrown out the magazine with the online dating article, so prominently laid out on the living room table.

[sandi2]

I agree with Bond and Gabby. We have watched you make a complete circle and repeat the same thought patterns and hashing and surveying possible conversations/actions with your W.

I felt your best chance was after you left EE last time. Your confidence was up and you sounded like a different man. But as once you were home, you lost whatever you had gained.

Your therapist's timing is very bad, if you ask me. It seems she doesn't know anything else to tell you and has started all over again.

Over a year ago, I thought your W wanted to see passion in you and to feel passion in the R. She pushed your buttons for a reason. But that has changed now. She's planning on divorcing you and I don't believe she will welcome your hands anywhere near her. It's really, REALLY bad timing. Besides, why on earth would you want to touch anyone who treated you like your W has treated you all these years? I can't believe you are trying to convince yourself, again, to try it. It's not the answer to the problem here. You become overly focused on something as simple as touching her arm when passing her and it becomes the central goal for you. Then when she does her usual destruction, it throws you for such a loop you don't know how to respond. I think you need to focus on your legal position in the D and began to protect yourself.

In some ways, I can relate to how your W must feel in the MR. There was a time my heart was very cold and I felt a lot of disgust and disrespect for my H. Trying to put myself in your W's place....the best thing my H could have done would have been to fill his time with having a really great time enjoying himself without me. To see him oozing with manly confidence in his walk, talk, and daily behavior. To stand up to me and take zero disrespectful statements/murmurings and other bad behavior directed at him. He would not stand around while I b!thced at him or about anything else. In fact, he would not have spent time in the same room with me if I acted like your W does. He would not have acted like my cook/bottle washer/butler. He would not have done anything "for" me. I would have had to take care of my own needs. He would not have sat at home and waited to see what I was going to do during the day/evening. He would have had his own plans and would not have included me or informed me.