Unlearning conflict avoidance 7

[MrBond]

"I made pancake batter and apple sauce last night, for the girls to fry up, but W heated up store bought pea soup instead."

Just for herself?

"Does this mean it is better that I do not cook at all? Not go food shopping at all?"

You're overthinking things again based on the actions of your W. Just do what you want to do. If she doesn't want to participate, that's up to her.

"I don't want to be a jerk, or not be present for my d15, when family dinners together were something we always valued."

It could be that it was something that YOU always valued. That was probably your sole source of validation from your family.

"So when/if W glares at me again, I say "W, I don't care to be glared at" and walk out?"

No. You put down your utensils, look at her square in the eye and tell her.."W, I don't care to be glared at. It's incredibly rude." To show her you mean business.

"I think a food stash upstairs, my domain now, may be necessary..."

Why do you think you need to go hiding again? It's your home. Start establishing yourself in it. DO NOT start hoarding food just because you don't want to deal with your W.

"This will be a great time, but W won't see us having it."

Who cares? Just be sure you take pictures for yourself. You could always show her them afterwards but don't do it if you're trying to get some kind of reaction out of her.

"Is it important that I just have a good time wherever, or should she also see it?"

OF COURSE it's important for you to have a good time...WHATEVER YOU DO! Stop wondering if she should or shouldn't see it.

A real man does things because he wants to. The old saying of "Why did the man climb the mountain? Because it's there" has never been more appropriate to anyone than you right now.

[makingmagic]

LUKE !!! some good advice here!!!

I especially like Bond's advice:

No. You put down your utensils, look at her square in the eye and tell her.."W, I don't care to be glared at. It's incredibly rude." To show her you mean business.

AND

Why do you think you need to go hiding again? It's your home. Start establishing yourself in it. DO NOT start hoarding food just because you don't want to deal with your W.

Please start standing up for yourself. It would be even "sexy" as someone put it to me, just yesterday! Respect is very attractive. You and I need a GOOD healthy dose of it, each!!

One thing that may happen, is your W may take it up a notch before she starts to realize you are no longer a carpet to be walked on. For example, my h has decided to challenge me further when I don't take his crap. I now will need to follow through with my consequences of (hanging up/walking away, etc) as declared I will do!. Look at it like this: a child having a tantrum at the store, kicking and flailing his arms/legs used to get your attention. Now it doesnt anymore. So, the child steps it up a notch and starts banging his head too. You no longer accept the bad behaviours and the child realizes that banging head hurts and the behaviour isn't getting your attention.

As my IC clarifies these to me:

If I tollerate bad behaviour from my h, I will always be subject to it. He will have no reason to treat me differently, why should he? I cater to his bad behaviour. It has become acceptable for him to treat me this way.

Make my needs clear without being controlling or demanding.

Be consistent in my behaviour. Inconsistency will be interpretted as a sign of weakness.

Let me know your thoughts...

Magic!



Make

[makingmagic]

Gotta love what Sandi says too:

the best thing my H could have done would have been to fill his time with having a really great time enjoying himself without me. To see him oozing with manly confidence in his walk, talk, and daily behavior. To stand up to me and take zero disrespectful statements/murmurings and other bad behavior directed at him. He would not stand around while I b!thced at him or about anything else. In fact, he would not have spent time in the same room with me if I acted like your W does. He would not have acted like my cook/bottle washer/butler. He would not have done anything "for" me. I would have had to take care of my own needs. He would not have sat at home and waited to see what I was going to do during the day/evening. He would have had his own plans and would not have included me or informed me.

Thanks for this Sandi.... I understand what I need to do!

[LuckyLuke]

Morning Bond, Magic,

Thanks for your posts. You both brought up the fine line between giving W space, which I interpreted as being separate and so not visible, and being/asserting myself, which means I sometimes am nearby and visible. Clarification below.

No, the soup was for both W and d15.

Okay, I like to go food shopping, as it breaks up the day, and so I will. If W doesn't want to drink the milk etc I bring home, that is her problem. No special treats for anyone though, as these could be interpreted as pursuing.

No, Bond, my W also makes family dinners and puts weight on eating together (though maybe not with me just now).

The kitchen is connected to the guest room, where W and d15 sleep and hang out, by a pass through, so that everything that happens in the kitchen is heard in there too. In the context of giving W space and not waking them up (they go to bed at 9), I thought it would be good to avoid using the kitchen in the evening. On the other hand, my W had no qualms about making noise in the kitchen - at 5am - when I slept in the guest room, so I guess it means I can do the same at 9 or 10 pm.

So I guess the confusion came the potential contradiction from just being myself, pursuing, giving space, and asserting myself.

Reflecting back, this is the third time my W needs space. 1. during our courtship, she moved out to her own apartment, leaving the rented house we were roommates in. I finally ended up moving in with her at the apartment. 2. in the early years of our marriage, she rented a small room in another part of town, and would invite me over sometimes. It was actually kind of romantic to do this. 3. now this. Giving her space was always good, though this time I won't compromise myself in doing so.

Thanks for pushing and reminding me of the proper track to be on.

Luke

[Accuray]

You seem to have a reflected sense of self. You need your own sense of self.

[LuckyLuke]

I don't understand, Accuray - am I doing something wrong? From where do you get that impression? How does one tell the difference?

[LuckyLuke]

W in better mood and more talkative this dinner, even looking at me sometimes. Perhaps because she is looking forward to telling me again that she wants a divorce! (haha)

[sandi2]

Reflecting back, this is the third time my W needs space. 1. during our courtship, she moved out to her own apartment, leaving the rented house we were roommates in. I finally ended up moving in with her at the apartment. 2. in the early years of our marriage, she rented a small room in another part of town, and would invite me over sometimes. It was actually kind of romantic to do this. 3. now this.

Wow! Did you not see it as being very unusual?

[LuckyLuke]

The caged beast craving freedom, I guess. She has always been kind of wild, and reminds me of Anna Karenina.

Yes, it was difficult each time. It seemed like the price to pay for staying together, and yes, it is unusual.

Am applying your advice - thanks again - found it useful to think what I would do if she didn't exist? Okay, then do just that! L

[MrBond]

"Thanks for your posts. You both brought up the fine line between giving W space, which I interpreted as being separate and so not visible,"

That's not what giving space is about. It's about not being in her face talking about the R. It's about you discovering your own happiness as opposed to burdening your W with it.

"and being/asserting myself, which means I sometimes am nearby and visible. "

Again this has nothing to do with physical proximity or interactions with her. Her glaring at you is HER choice to do so. You are and have a right to be in your own home as you wish. But what you've been doing all these years is hiding from her when you perceive she is upset with you. There's a reason why male lions mark their territory. It's to establish boundaries and anything within their boundaries is their domain. You've let your W run your territory this whole time.