Unlearning conflict avoidance 7

[jp787]

I think she is crying from banging her head against the wall...

No one is in your master bedroom??? That is odd...

[MrBond]

I hope you realize that everything that your coach told you, we've told you for years. The question is, will you follow through?

[PatientMan]

Hi PM,

Thanks for your long post. I don't understand what you consider inauthentic game playing. If you could please be specific, that would be helpful.

It wouldn't be the first time I've been thanked on the length of my post , and my apologies on the delayed response as I've been away from the board.

It seems as though you are asking what to do and say, then simply following orders. It seems as though you want a certain result or reaction from your W when you act or say something. That is the in-authenticity I am speaking of.

You are here to make changes to YOU, right? Make the changes and you won't have to ask what orders to follow, because you won't be following anyone. You'll be leading your family forward, and your W can choose to join you if she wants.

I do not mean to insult you when I purport your actions as playing games. What I mean is, your game right now appears to be "Saving My Marriage". And that's understandable. What *I'm* saying, is that I don't think you can win that game...yet. That's like chess, but you've yet to master checkers. The game you need to conquer first - your checkers - is "Figuring Out Who I Want To Be". Figure out who YOU want to be, then courageously pursue becoming that person with unwavering faith in yourself.

And do it for you, not anybody else.

A man who has mastered THAT game, is a man to be respected. And a man who is respected, has a chance at saving his marriage.

Maybe someone has already said something like that, but I went to catch up on your situation and responded because you asked me directly.

All the best,

-PM

[LuckyLuke]

All, thank you.

For my (thick-headed) understanding of the psychology involved: is the idea of agreeing to a D and proposing to list the house early to call her bluff? Chuck put emphasis on 180s and doing the unexpected, which this is an example of, but it seems risky?

W has not been difficult the last two days.

PM - I don't know much at all, but am now more consciously trying to live actively, instead of just letting life happen. EE and GAL have been very motivating for that.

I am going out for a business dinner tonight, and will be gone all day Sunday, interviewing college applicants.

L

[LuckyLuke]

The list really only has two points that I see:

o get back into master bedroom
o talk to W (as far as I can see this is just one message)

with responses to online dating question and any insults/bad treatment applied as needed.

Do I see this correctly or am I (probably) missing something ? Luke

[Accuray]

So she hasn't been difficult the last two days. In that case it's probably safe to ignore this advice and do nothing instead. Maybe be nice and servile and she will decide to stay with you?

Luke do you see the record skipping and history repeating itself? W has been very clear and unambiguous about her plans. Follow Chuck' s advice. No more analysis, just do it. Time to embrace some risk, things cannot get worse

[LuckyLuke]

Accuray - no, no, no - is my immediate reaction. That is not what I meant to convey. Not being difficult was a point of information - not more.

I actually do not like the ease of the last two days - I find it ominous.

Luke

[PatientMan]

PM - I don't know much at all, but am now more consciously trying to live actively, instead of just letting life happen. EE and GAL have been very motivating for that.

I am going out for a business dinner tonight, and will be gone all day Sunday, interviewing college applicants.

L

Those are very excellent steps for you and I'm glad you're taking them.

What steps are you taking to establish yourself as a respectable man in your family? I see that you don't like being treated disrespectfully by your W, and you don't like that your D is beginning to mirror your W's behavior. My guess is that this is an area where you want to change, but I don't want to guess, so let's take this one step at a time:

What kind of man does LuckyLuke want to be? For example:

• What attributes would describe this version of you?
• How would this version of you be viewed by your family and others?

-PM

[LuckyLuke]

PM - I had been thinking earlier today of asking exactly such questions, but did not want to burden the folks here on the board, so thank you for asking (smiley face here).

The goals could include:

o daring to be honest, with authentic, caring communication with my W and kids, just like I had with my dad about his incontinence
o positive (the glass is half full, folks)
o capable of the 9 miles on weekends (and I really should stretch and weightlift too)
o meditate in the mornings, to quiet my mind
o being more socially at ease, like my French guy friend
o creating my life actively, like the men's lunch club thing
o better in touch with my real self - so less mind and thought

I think that these would be viewed positively.

Luke

[sandi2]

What is the objective in moving to the master bedroom? Before your son went off to school, you were sleeping downstairs on the couch or on the floors upstairs (so you could be near your family). We were trying to encourage you to man up and claim the master bedroom......b/c that is where the man of the house should be sleeping. It was also where your W was sleeping and had kicked you out. So the objective at that time was to be aggressive enough to claim your bed while your W was occupying that room.

Now you have been sleeping in your son's room for a while and the W and D are sleeping downstairs in a guest room. Why didn't you sleep in the guest room when you were downstairs on the couch? As I recall, we had the impression there was no other bedroom downstairs, but I suppose that's not the real issue right now, and you need not answer.

Did you explain to your DB Coach that the W was no longer in the master bedroom? Little details like that are important b/c I really see no big aggressive steps being made by you moving your things into the master bedroom.....if your W doesn't even sleep on that floor. If you are more comfortable and it is more accommodating for you to be in that room....then fine, move in there. But it won't be the same bold statement that we were trying to get you to do at the time your W was using the room and banning you from going in there.

o talk to W (as far as I can see this is just one message)

with responses to online dating question and any insults/bad treatment applied as needed.

Do I see this correctly or am I (probably) missing something ? Luke

Has your coach told you to act as if you are going through with the D, or act as if you want to reconcile? Since those are opposite directions, I would think the advice could be different. If you don't know the direction you are taking, how can you determine the goals?

Maybe it's me. Maybe I'm the one getting dizzy. One time it sounds as if you are accepting a D and plan to move forward in your life without your W. Then the next time you are telling us what the T or coach advised to win W back into the MR. I believe you are confused about what to do b/c you have so many giving you advice. And, since the majority of your DBing over the past years has mostly been "discussion" about what/how to act....you have received repetitious advice. My concern is that you sound as if it's the first time anyone has suggest most things. But again.....maybe that's just my perception.

I really want to see you make a solid decision about your life & your future....and choose a firm plan that does not waver with lots of holes in it. Decide what Luke really wants and go after it. Don't allow your W's thoughts of you to make the decisions. It's your life to live.