I've looked at life from both sides now

[job]

Raine,
He's still very fragile and yes, he's waiting for you to tell him to hit the road. He knows he screwed up and he also knows that you have a life and your sons need a father who is strong and attentive to their needs.

This is the stage where many lbs become impatient and worn down because many think that the mlcer is back home and should be getting his/her act together and be a mature partner again. It takes many months for them mlcer to actually settle back into the life of being married, a father and yes, a friend/lover to the lbs. This is where the lbs has to dig very deep for more patience and understanding because if you push this fragile human being too far, they will leave once again because they will think that they are a failure in the lbs' eyes.

Raine, I know you are tired and worn out from this experience and I can't tell you how long it will take for him to wake up and smell the coffee and be a mature man, but I can promise you, if you can hold on and when he does wake up, your relationship will be on a different level and your marriage will have to be a new one because you can't return to the old one.

Just be yourself and hopefully everything else will fall into place. I honestly wish that I could set the clock to a faster pace for him, but he's got to continue working through his crisis on his time...which is very slow.

How are you really doing? How are the boys doing? I can just imagine the little one is growing by leaps and bounds.

[uRworthy]

Hi sweetie. So much going through your head, right? How could there not be?

You know, when the bottom drops out of your world, it understandably leaves you off balance. And even when the pieces are beginning to be put back together, you are still trying to find your footing.

He is trying to navigate through this, just as you are. But, you get to do it without being in crisis.

I know you have all kinds of questions. Is he recommitting?
If I let him back into my heart, will it get broken again? Can he become the husband I need?

I also know it is so hard, when the physical stuff is there, for you to want more.

The thing is this. He is giving as much as he can right now. As much as he is capable of. The talking and verbalizing his feelings part, is really the very hardest part for an MLCer.

The way to know how he feels at this point is consistent, positive actions from him.

This is a critical part for both of you.

Raine, there are no guarantees in life. Whether you are with him or someone else.

So, you need to decide if you can dig in a bit more.

He is very fragile. But so are you. He has fears just like you have.

This all just takes time. Time for him to live with his changes. Time for him to reconcile what he is going through and to figure out what got him to this point.

I know you fear getting hurt and you should protect your heart. But, leave it open enough for the possibilities of what it can be for the two of you.

[Raine]

<3 you job Thanks for your post. I am remembering to dig in for patience every day. He is a slow one, but on the other hand this does seem to be moving very fast. Our S was quite short compared to others, and this reconnection train, once started, seems to be moving faster than even I’m ready for too. The boys are doing amazingly well. I can’t believe how big my little man is now. He is crawling all over the house, getting into stuff. It’s bitter-sweet, knowing he is my last. Every few months I’m donating things, instead of packing them for the next one. That’s always a difficult day.

More Journaling…

So where are things now, one year later? My husband and I are back together. He has been home for over five months now, snuck right back into the home as a short two week transition until he moved into his next apartment. We are sleeping in the same bed (past six week.) We are being physically intimate (past five weeks.) We are connecting physically, but that’s mainly just MBR physical. I started instigating it. I also started kissing him or hugging him goodbye. Not every time, but when I can. I don’t know how he feels about that, but I don’t really care. He accepts. He doesn’t pull away or cringe or anything. I’m doing it because I want to. He doesn’t do much of anything physical outside of the MBR. He instigated the ML, and I’m just starting to instigate more. I wouldn’t call it ML though. It’s physical. There isn’t any words. He doesn’t say I love you or you’re beautiful or that was great or ANYTHING…EVER! Kind of weird, like everything else. And the majority of time it’s just a lot of snuggling. Lots of snuggling, touching, and hugging every night and sometimes it goes beyond. So I’m getting my tons and tons of consistent action, and nothing said. And the woman in me is longing for those words, anything. Just say something! Yes folks, we are different.

We are throwing a huge party in a few weeks to celebrate one of his accomplishments and will have 40+ people here. I threw out the suggestion as a “hey this would be fun,” and he ran with it and he is so excited about it. He wants the house perfect for that and for the Christmas season. He is getting guys to come and deck out the house with lights, etc, etc.

He is talking about needing to clean up the closet. Those bags that he brought home from his apartment are still packed in the closet, but now there is a bunch of other crap thrown on top. I cleaned out the chest in the room that had all the baby stuff in it. So there is a large dresser/chest there that is empty, but he hasn’t made the move to organize it yet. Just talk. He still keeps his dirty clothes in a separate hamper, even though I’ve told him he can just sort it in the other hampers, and even though he knows I just go grab it and sort it anyway and wash it, since I have someone who comes and folds/hangs laundry. Otherwise if I was doing the laundry, I would just let it go. Still one of those “You are so weird, but okay, whatever,” things to me that I just ignore.

He is talking about family vacations in the future. Lots of talk in the future, with family, plus him and I alone kind of stuff. He wants me with him. He makes plans for us. We do a lot of couple things. He had couples over to the house last night, and told me he didn't want so-and-so coming, because he just wanted a couple’s night. We are doing a lot just him and I. Babysitting expenses are adding up fast.

He is watching the kids so I can go out. He seems happy about me going out. Happy that he can do something or that I’m getting away. He verbally says he is trying to help out, to make it so things are stressful for me, to help with the kids. And he is helping. This last week it really picked up to a level I haven’t seen in a very long time. Probably getting close to the same level he was five years ago.

I was out late one night. Until about 1:30 am. He knew I was out with a friend, but he didn’t know where or anything and I didn’t tell him. He was kind of distant towards me after. He texted me when I got in the house but was in the bathroom getting ready for bed, saying “welcome home.” Didn’t say it. He texted it. And then he asked if I had a good time, and I said yes, and that was it. He just rolled over and didn’t talk to me anymore. I don’t know what to read into that. Kind of made me laugh a little. I ended up telling him what we did a few days later. He was probably surprised because I went way out of my comfort zone. I’ll save that for later.

He is being bossy and demanding, not in a controlling or bad way, but this is different, for him to ask anything of me or have any expectations of me. He wants my help with things. He is asking me for things. The appreciation really isn't there for anything though. He doesn’t acknowledge or say thanks much. He wants to know what I’m doing. Who I’m talking to. What is being said. We did some of that small touches in front of those other couples last night, the head leaned against the shoulder, the whisperings. He called me “hon,” and it seemed like a slip, but it made me melt.

He is analyzing the crap out of me and actually telling me so. Quotes are what he said, and parentheses are what I’m thinking and my truth, but I just tell him, yeah I'm fine. Thanks for thinking of me.
“Are you okay? You were in the bathroom a long time tonight.”
(Yeah, I’m fine. It’s the only place I can go to respond to messages and read my DB forum.)
“Are you sure you want to keep watching this? It seems to be affecting you.”
(Yes I’m fine. It’s hard to watch shows where the husband is so deceitful and destroying his family, but actually I’m spinning a bit right now because you told me you just sent a work related email to OW3 and you don’t know that I know she was one of your make-out buddies for a few nights.)

He told me to put my phone away. I know I need to when I’m around other people, but the anxiety builds in me. I need to be doing something. I have a hard time when we are playing games with other people, just sitting there doing nothing and waiting for people. He told me to talk to him instead. I said I would but he is talking to other people about the game rules. He said if I need to, then to just look at my phone while at the table but don’t leave.

Would I fall for him all over again if the cheating wasn’t there? Yes. Yes I would. Am I worried that I’m falling for a guy who ripped my heart out and stomped on it and doesn’t acknowledge that he did? Hell to the yes.

So what is not happening...he is not instigating physical outside of the MB. There is no talk of or acknowledgement for the past. He has not gotten additional C sessions lined up. I also told him he needed to get an STD test last week and he said he would, but he hasn’t. (Yes I’m being safe.) It annoys the crap out of me that he won’t just do it so I don’t have to ask again. It was hard enough to ask the first time. He is busy and stressed with work.

I started IC. Now that opened up a lot for me, and I went into it so unprepared. This next session will be better. More on that probably after the next session. This first session was so fire hose.

I’m reminded of something I said to rH last March. So many people liked it that I copied it into my “quotes” notes on my phone. So now here it is, something I said to rH, that I honestly doubted would ever apply to me:

Enjoy the reconnection. You are now on a journey with your husband that most couples never get. You're not stagnant. You're not going through the motions. You are creating. You are moving. Your love is an action. You get to start and build a new relationship, but with the man you love deeply love, a man you have gone through Hell for. And he loves you, without question.

No one is perfect, and neither is any relationship. And there are going to be ups and downs. So focus on the ups when you feel down. Put the sad thoughts behind you and focus on the bright new day. It [censored] that these MLCers have to do so much damage to learn what we have known all along, but what really matters at this point is the lesson has and is being learned.

[job]

Raine,
Your and your h are building an entirely new relationship, one that has started out as friends once again. He's still a bit of a teenager and wants to know where you are going, what you are doing, etc. That will eventually fade away in time. As for the bags of clothes...he'll unpack them once he feels more comfortable in his own skin and settles back into home life once and for all. When those clothes are placed back in the drawers and closets, you'll know he's just about ready to come out of the oven.

Some of his personality quirks that he acquired during mlc may remain w/him as a "permanent". Some do tend to keep some of those quirky behaviors and others don't. Time will tell w/your pod person.

Reconnection can be an adventure, one of ups and downs. It's a time to learn about him and about yourself. It's a time to create a new relationship because you can't go back to the old one...it's gone for good.

Your little one is crawling and the time has flown and here we are talking about Christmas decorations. A year can make a difference and I know it's been a long, frustrating one for you, but the finish line is not that far off and just maybe he'll be home entirely by spring.

Enjoy the new discoveries and keep your expectations at zero at all times.

[CallaghanClown]

Raine

I know what you are going through is hard, uncomfortable and uncertain but I just wanted to let you know that you give others hope.

Remember every day that you lived and learned from when the BD happened and your heart got broken. IF he BD's again and your heart gets broken you will survive, you've already proven that. The only difference will be that you get to decide if you stand once again or walk away with your head held high, your choice, you are the one in control.

[Raine]

I'm up kind of late, working on some notes for my counseling session, so I can be a bit more organized in what I want to talk about and work through.

So, my question is, how would you explain MLC to someone in 3-4 sentences? The C is a PhD, but I would venture to say that MLC isn't part of his vocab or belief.

[RosaLinda]

I had a similar situation with my IC, Raine. She did not believe in mid life crisis, and said everyone goes thru a mid life transition. And claimed that the label "MLC" is just an excuse for bad behavior. 

I told her I had read that people are more likely to experience crisis if they never formed a strong healthy sexual identity because they either (a) did not have the chance to have their hearts broken a couple of times during their teen years or (b) experienced great trauma during these years. 

That it was normal to experience the stages of grief in response to growing older and realizing one would never accomplish all he or she set out to do. But if these people with a weaker sexual identity experience a second trauma, especially a death, they can go into a deep depression, and experience an emotional crisis of identity, self confidence and doubt. And it can cause a break with reality. 

That was my understanding of it. She did not "buy it" but did some research and had changed her mind by our second session :) 

I'd be interested in the vets' 5 minute explanation. I hope the session helps you Raine. 

[beatrice]

Raine - this is a very good question. RL's answer is an excellent one.

For me, also, a key component in explaining that something out of the ordinary is happening to our spouse/SO is the total change in behaviour not only towards us (which could arguably be caused by a marriage breakdown, in an very extreme form) but also towards other family members, children, old friends and even pets. The fact that they have effectively become another person.

Ultimately though the work of the IC is to help us deal with what has happened - but I do think that we need someone who 'gets' MLC. The first person I saw didn't, and did me more harm than good, as she insisted on dealing with it as marriage breakdown. I kept trying to say that there was more than this going on, and she would smile in a what I felt was a superior way and take no notice.

The second one did get MLC, although he put it a little differently (and that in itself was helpful) but he was in no doubt that there was something very very wrong with my xh. He saw his role as helping me to go on living my life, healing and dealing with xh as and when necessary.

[Whiterose]

What a great way go explain it Linda!

No one believes me so I may try using this.

Good luck today Raine. I hope it goes well

[Raine]

Thanks team That helped a lot. There are so many facets to mlc that I didn't want to spend a bunch of time going through it. This after all is about me and things I want to work on, not an education of him and where he is out. I do think it's an important aspect of all this though and why I am where I am and why I'm doing what I'm doing.

Counseling was awesome. H drove me there. I was going over some notes I had while he was driving. He thought I was responding to work emails, and I said no, I'm going over my thoughts from this last week, so I can be a bit more organized in what I want to talk about and work on. He seemed very surprised. He said he didn't go into his IC so prepared. Almost like that got him thinking that maybe he should be. Kind of interesting. He was very quiet after that and after picking me up too.

His initiation of physical contact has dropped. We did go to a dinner together this last week, where he opened doors, pulled out my chair, put his hand on my arm, and did other kind of possessive things. There has been multiple moments of him acknowledging that he has done things wrong, but not anything like where he feels he has wronged me or anything like that. More like he is a bad person jokes.

He continues to help out, take care of things, communicate about things. He continues to want me around him, spending time with him. When we went to hang out together with a group, he's got annoyed at the thought of me doing something in a separate group from him. "No, I came here to be with you." He will also move chairs to sit next to me. He has also made a lot of jokes about so-and-so liking me or so-and-so is only hanging out with us because he wants to be around me. The jealousy vibe is huge there from him it seems. And now that I think of it, it kind of was there before all this too, slightly. Much more joking. Where now it seems like he is trying to joke, but there is much more of a "I don't like this" undertone.

He says goodbye, hellos, things like that, but he's been backing off more it seems. There has been a lot more time with us side by side where he doesn't talk at all for long periods of time, like in the car, as if he is in deep thought. I just let it go. It's not uncomfortable for me to be in silence.

I set out to save my marriage. I’ve always wanted to save it. I wanted back what I thought I had. And now? Now I want more. I want more than what I thought we had. I feel like I’ve done the right things, because of where he is now, where I am now, and where we are together. He is showing lots and lots of consistent action. But there is no communication towards working on a relationship or any kind of apology.

I’m not okay with sweeping all of this under the rug. I know too much. I don’t want to be in a relationship where there are secrets. There can’t be secrets that involve me, and cheating on me, involves me. There can’t be secrets that he shares with other people that involves me and our marriage. If I know, then I know, and I can stop thinking about it. I don’t have a timeline for when this needs to come out, and no I don’t want specific details, but yes, for this to work out between him and I, for there to be trust ever again, it has to come out.

He will have to get there. He will have to come clean and be honest about everything. I don't think I can stay in a relationship with him otherwise. There will just be too much lingering. If we can never fully bury the past, I will assume he will always have secrets, these old secrets and he will add new secrets and things he needs to hide from me. It will be proof that his trust and insecurities are too deep to be in the level of relationship that I need. I need to be in it 100%.

I'm not with him out of fear. I want to save this. I've wanted that since the beginning. But I’ve got to save something worth saving. And this right now is not worth saving. We have to close doors and start something new. What this is right now is a holding pattern for me. I don't feel like we're even at the start yet.

If it doesn't work and the bomb drops again, I can handle it. I can give my all to this now and know that I can be hurt by this or anything in the future. No guarantees with anyone ever again, not that there ever was. I just thought there was, because I felt that way. Because I was in it, both feet, full heart. It wasn’t a "want" before. It was a have to be, guaranteed. This destruction of the fantasy will make for a much better relationship. Because there is no "have to be’s" in there. I will never take it for granted again. And because of that, I will take much better care of my new relationship than the old one, because what I do matters.