on the edge...

[dingo]

How quickly things change....
I sensed something was a little amiss on Sunday when she was more standoffish than she had been the previous few weeks. Then when I got home last night, she told me she had looked at an apartment earlier that day and was planning to move out on 12/1.

I asked her why and her response was 'you've been great to me the last few weeks and I feel horrible that I can't return it.' I told her that I had enjoyed the last few weeks as well and understand that it will be a long process for her and that I am not necessarily looking for her to reciprocate 1 to 1 with me at this point. I also said that I hope she changes her mind but that while I don't agree with her decision, I support it.

I went upstairs to change my clothes and she followed. She continued to talk about the situation and I let myself get sucked into the 'more of the same' conversation. Her logic was all over the place. Her excuses ran the gamut from I don't love you anymore to I'm bored and trapped to I don't deserve you anymore. Of course, I tried to point out the flaws in her reasoning even though in the back of my mind, I knew it wasn't going to convince her and that even if it did, it wouldn't be a permanent solution - but I couldn't stop myself. I am the only person giving her real advice that's not 'do what makes you happy' crap and even if it has to come from me, I think she has to hear that side of it.

She also joined in the 'more of the same' talk with 'I am 100% sure this time, nothing is going to change my mind' to 'I'll think about things during the week and make a decision on Friday.' Its the standard progression of these threats from her but I always take them seriously because I don't know when she will follow through.

Interestingly enough, I don't think this has to do with the OM. I believe she has kept to zero contact (except for work issues which can't be helped right now). She has been much less protective of her cell phone and has spent much less time actually on it. She also has not had any long unexplained absences. She claims that he is not interested in non-work related contact anymore either.

It could possibly have something to do with stress. She is under a lot of pressure at work and has expressed concerns about changing jobs and leaving her current company understaffed on important projects. Even though I did not push her on the new job (she doesn't even have an offer yet), she felt that she was pressured by the situation. Add to that the stress of working through her issues with me and my very presence maybe more stress than she can handle, especially with me acting like a saint to her. It does no good to speculate though.

What is clear is that despite her claims of being wanting and willing, she is still not fully committed to the marriage. She is willing to try by staying in the situation and putting on a good face but when things get tough or her feelings get conflicted with her logic, she reacts with emotion. I asked her if she thought about seeing a psychologist for depression and she laughed in my face but I definitely think its a contribution to the problem.

I don't know what she is going to do this week. She spoke with her father this morning and he told her 'marriages take work and don't work for everyone but they do work for everyone who works at them.' I thought that was a pretty good line but as usual, she claims the conventional wisdom (whether it comes from the counselor, me, her father or articles she's read) never applies to her. I don't know what is going to happen tonight when we get home or if/when she intends to sign the lease on the apartment.

[Breakdown]

How quickly things change....

Yep...that's why people refer to this as a "roller coaster" a lot of times. The advice here is to get off the ride. Lovingly detach.

I also said that I hope she changes her mind but that while I don't agree with her decision, I support it.

I think that was pretty good....solid. You should have left it at that though.

I let myself get sucked into the 'more of the same' conversation.

...but I couldn't stop myself.

I'm going to challenge you here....you have the power. You just have to make the choice to not engage in it.

I am the only person giving her real advice that's not 'do what makes you happy' crap and even if it has to come from me, I think she has to hear that side of it.

And yet, you're probably the last person she'll listen to. You are doing an awful lot of negotiating....it doesn't work. There is no logic to this...you can't convince her. The best thing you can do is stop where you started above...

Interestingly enough, I don't think this has to do with the OM.

I'm not sure I agree. The end of an affair is a really tough time. Depression isn't uncommon. I think Sandi already talked about how this might affect her....reread that.

I asked her if she thought about seeing a psychologist for depression and she laughed in my face but I definitely think its a contribution to the problem.

You are still trying to fix this....you can't. If she wants your help, she'll ask for it. You volunteering it is just going to push her farther away.

I think the best thing you can do right now is focus on you. GAL, work on the things that make you the H only a fool would leave, live your life. Be consistent in your actions. So what are you doing?

Hang in there man....this is tough stuff and while you can't control it, you can control how you react to it.

[dingo]

Yeah I realize that I lost control of myself during a lot of what happened last night. It [censored] because I had time to prepare myself and have been planning how I was going to react but I couldn't make good on it. I managed to walk away the first time but couldn't do it the second time and from there it was a slippery slope into mots behavior.

I didn't mean to imply that her state of mind has nothing to do with the affair, only that I don't think contact with the om was what caused her change of heart.

I haven't spoken with her much today. She did email me to say that she was reading things and thinking about things. I think I need to stick to 100% commitment like I stated a few weeks ago but even if she agrees, how do I trust that it's sincere and we won't be back here again in 3 weeks?

[Breakdown]

I haven't spoken with her much today. She did email me to say that she was reading things and thinking about things.

I think space is probably the right thing right now.

I think I need to stick to 100% commitment like I stated a few weeks ago but even if she agrees, how do I trust that it's sincere and we won't be back here again in 3 weeks?

Trust is a choice....you are both taking a leap of faith here. And even if she is sincere, even if she does mean it, there's no guarantees.

Again, keep the focus on you....be consistent in your behavior, consistent in what you want, what you need. She may bounce around for a while...but your path doesn't hinge on hers.

Hang in there.

[jp787]

Moving out may be what she needs, it may be what has to happen before she can figure out what she wants, it is not necessarily a negative

[dingo]

I understand that moving out may be what she needs but given the affair, it essentially results in an open marriage - or at least the potential of an open marriage - which is not something that I can accept.

She has wavered back and forth about wanting to work on things and then not wanting to work on things. Most recently, she wanted to work on things 3 weeks ago and then her feeling started to change about 1 week ago. It seems like she doesn't have the resolve to characterize her feelings and understand them and learn to not let them control her.

As of this morning, she wants the day to think about things some more but I have remained consistent in what I am looking for: commitment to the marriage. While I can accept the rollercoaster of feelings and emotions, I can't accept acting them out every time as it just keeps us in limbo. A firm decision needs to be made by one of us.

[jp787]

I understand that moving out may be what she needs but given the affair, it essentially results in an open marriage - or at least the potential of an open marriage - which is not something that I can accept. You need to set your boundaries regardless of where she lives and stand by them


She has wavered back and forth about wanting to work on things and then not wanting to work on things. Most recently, she wanted to work on things 3 weeks ago and then her feeling started to change about 1 week ago. It seems like she doesn't have the resolve to characterize her feelings and understand them and learn to not let them control her. This is the hard part. You need to let her figure things out on her own and focus on you, not her, not the M.


As of this morning, she wants the day to think about things some more but I have remained consistent in what I am looking for: commitment to the marriage. While I can accept the rollercoaster of feelings and emotions, I can't accept acting them out every time as it just keeps us in limbo. A firm decision needs to be made by one of us.

Are you really at the point that a firm decision needs to be made? It sounds like she isn’t ready for that and if it is force, you may not like the results.

[dingo]

Given the affair, her moving out is a boundary for me and I have expressed that to her. I am just not willing to let her put my romantic life and ability to start a family on hold (because I won't even think about dating someone else while I am still married - separated or not) while she goes out and acts single or gets back involved with the OM.

I have been working on myself by improving on the things that I did wrong during the marriage and by trying to implement a lot of the advice I have been given here. I have continued with my normal routine of working out and doing all the same hobbies that I have always done. I have not pushed her to discuss her problems, feelings, etc (up until Monday night when the [censored] hit the fan again) and have tried to give her space to work out her own issues. Since we have supposedly been working on the marriage, I have not been unavailable to her or done the 180s that involve limited contact.

I guess I think we are at a point where a firm decision needs to be made. As some people said a page or so back, it may take the realization of loss for her to snap back to reality; and if that doesn't change things, we are that much closer to where we will ultimately end up anyway.

[jp787]

Make sure to give yourself time before expressing an ultimatum, once it is said, it's out there. She may need more time, maybe a little, maybe a lot, but it is your choice to give more time or not, it sure isn't easy.

I remember being emotional and saying F this and it wasn't fair or worth it, but it was, it was just my emotions talking.

Give yourself some time. Do what you need to for you, I wont disagree with that.

[Breakdown]

Given the affair, her moving out is a boundary for me and I have expressed that to her.

First, you can't control her....boundaries aren't for you to control her. Second, moving out or not isn't going to make her fall in love with you again or stop the affair. Right now there seems to be a lot of pressure on both of you...space may be needed for both of you. Don't read more into it than there may be. It's a problem for you because of what "you think" is going to happen....and the truth is, you don't know.

I am just not willing to let her put my romantic life and ability to start a family on hold (because I won't even think about dating someone else while I am still married - separated or not) while she goes out and acts single or gets back involved with the OM.

Really? Your M didn't get her overnight, and it's not going to get better overnight. You are just as responsible for where your M as she is.

Sounds to me like there's a lot more going on here than you putting your romantic life on hold. Dig in....do you see it?

I guess I think we are at a point where a firm decision needs to be made. As some people said a page or so back, it may take the realization of loss for her to snap back to reality; and if that doesn't change things, we are that much closer to where we will ultimately end up anyway.

I agree with the concept...she indeed may have to realize the loss of you at some point. But this seems way early in the game to be forcing that hand. I would be focusing on improving yourself and give her some space. You adding even more pressure to the mix is probably not going to get you the results you want.

Personally, my goal was to get to that point where I believed I was the "man only a fool would leave" first. Once I got to that point, then I thought I could force some issues. I'd done my work...she'd seen the changes for long enough to believe them....she knew the new deal she'd be giving up. In your case, she's still thinking you're the old deal at this point.