Exposure

[hotwheelsaust]

I feel h or W has had 0 consequences.

This kind of sums it up for most LBS. We are left to deal with all the consequences while they tend to ride the beautiful wave.

[RockJC]

HWS, you don't truly believe this. If you did, you have the choice to ride the same wave. You could walk away from your marriage. You could have multiple affairs. You could live the exact same life.

In your heart, though, you know it is not fulfilling and will not make you happy. You know that at the end of the day there are consequences.

[hotwheelsaust]

You are right RockJC, I know they (WAS) must not have a fulfilling life. But for most of them (WAS) they do walk away with very few if little consequences. Things they simply don't worry about until it bites them.
It does seem that the LBS has to make up all the hardship that has been left to them. My example, has my W, walking away from me without paying for the mortgages or any bills for the last 13 months. She still has the family support, the lack of worrying (mindreading) about the marriage, and if anything, enjoying the new relationship.
In my heart, I will do everything possible for my marriage and even then some. I will do the right thing (following DB principles) as much as I can and continue with my values in life. I don't want to ride the same wave, because I believe in my marriage values. I believe in working at my marriage. I believe my W is in a fog, that one day may lift. If it does, I still want to be the person she met and liked over 25 years ago.

[SM34]

Starsky I think i agree with keeping the hurt spouses parents and family out of it. The cheating spouse is not blood related and reconcilliation would be very awkward.

I told my mother in law the very first day (exposed). I hadnt read anything about exposure but my gut told me she might be able to do something to help.

Wife did most of the exposing herself, although of course she has been selective to which ears she tells.

I've kept my family in the dark. If I have to tell them my marriage is over (they live across country) ill just tell them its amicable, mutual etc.. otherwise its going to be very uncomfortable in the future, especially for my daughter.

[25yearsmlc]

Thats an interesting response, gabbysmom.

I would say it depends on what you are trying to achieve, and at what cost you are willing to pay to achieve it.

There are those who are willing to keep things quiet and allow their spouse the time and spouse to see if they make the right choice. And if not, the lbs moves on.

And then there are those who have a need be right, even if it destroys the bridges back to the marriage.

and or a need to punish. That "need" is not noble. It also keeps the focus off the LBS and sometimes, NOT always but more often than not, the LBS has their own part to play and own up to. It's just a lot easier to say "he cheated...he is a jerk and that's that" and never look inward.

No single way is better for all people or all situations. But I think there are a few things that we can deduce which is what dbmod is suggesting. Those things are....

Exposing and letting the truth be known as you suggest will at the minimum cause the wayward much shame.

Ah wow, I SO disagree. I ASSUME when you say "exposure" you mean to third parties? Don't assume the wayward spouse will feel shame.

They have already justified the affair. At least most women having affairs have. And men who have affairs with women they care for (as opposed to purely physical or several one night stands), believe they are NOT "wrong" to have the affairs.

AND why is that anyone outside the family's business?

More importantly, while The GOAL of the LBS might well be to shame the WAS into returning, it nearly always backfires. it usually is the goal (b/c the LBS is mad and their ego is wounded) but that hardly makes it right

and I have NEVER seen a man or woman come home and stay home, from shame. I don't believe I can over stress this point.

I say it backfires. Oh sure, IF there is fear of loss of income or prestige or rank or there is some leverage with which you might blackmail the WAS into returning as you suggested if they are "well known in the community",

and IF they return from fear of their LBS airing the dirty laundry, are you saying "it worked"??

B/c to me, that's NOT reconciling or saving the marriage. To me,
That's just blackmail with possibly temporary results.

But what is their r like IN the home then? What goal was really achieved?

No woman (and I assume no man) can enjoy intimacy while feeling shamed. So down the road, how will that really play out? THINK...

In the years I have been here, I have never seen a WAS come home AND stay home, due to shame.

True, I have seen a few people CLAIM their spouses came home "Because" of exposure...but even if true, it's rare. And I don't know that I buy it anyhow.

Ask yourself why MWD and DB are so opposed to exposure....(seriously...ask yourself that).

In part I believe MWD sees the reality that usually it backfires, and it almost never makes the LBS look "righteous" or like a victim.

In fact, from what I've seen, It is often held against the LBS b/c they now publiczed the sins of the parent of their children, or they are "hiding how cold they were" or how critical, or they tell of the affair and then they "break the dinner plate."

("Breaking the dinner plate" is when someone hurts the income of the family in order to punish the wayward spouse...so they scortch and burn...Meaning, For instance, in the Army when an officer gets reported for adultery, it can hurt his career. He won't go to jail b/c of it, but it's not something that advances ones interests.
If the officer (parent) ends up not being promoted, he loses his job b/c it's "up r out" for them.

So a letter of reprimand or career ending notation can mean the officer's active duty career is OVER and that is that.

I've seen a wife find out about an affair, go to the command and inform them of it, and have her h kicked out of the military. It was rare but the aggravating factor was that the woman was in his chain of command and he'd been very indiscreet. Once the commander was informed, he was forced to take public action. So, suddenly her h was given a discharge, and she and her four children had to move off base within 60 days, with no income coming in, and no health insurance either.

I Think she wished maybe she had waited a few days to cool off and THEN plan out what to do.

Her whole family was uprooted and without a place to live, without health care and they could not even stay in their neighborhood...

is that truly a desirable outcome? I have had to ask some wives that question in the past when I was active duty...it hurt to ask and it hurt to see them swallow their pride for their children's sake, but THAT was the right thing to do. THey could still end their marriage or they could still try to save it. But they could not punish their h's for cheating, by publicizing it. Too much "collateral damage"...

To me it's horrible and unfair to the kids. It means the hurt LBS put her anger ahead of the needs and welfare of her children, all to prove WHAT point??

Many people who hear of the affair FROM the LBS will think so little of the LBS for tellng them, and for publicizing a private matter, they'll look vindictive while doing it, and those folks will often litereally blame the LBS. I have seen this more than a dozen times.

Seriously...not too long ago, a LBS wife wrote on our high school class FB page, that her h had cheated with "OW"classmate, and that other women ought to "keep your h's close" so that the evil OW would not "steal" another h. I thought that was just so sad and desparate sounding of her...

Since I was the admin for the FB page, only I could delete the message. Four people, 3 women and 1 man, asked me to "delete the message from Bruce's wife, b/c it's inappropriate"...and one person said it was "pathetic". THAT is how the LBS was viewed...

And not one of those 4 people expressed sorrow for her, and they each seemed turned off by it. Sad, but true. I was very struck by this experience.

As for the 2-3 around here who claim theyir spouses returned "because" of exposure, I'm not sure I buy that. But I know None of them sounded "reconciled" to me, nor did their marriages "restored" in my eyes.

Starsky speaks of his wife returning to him and seems to say it's becasue of the exposure. But I think that's missing the mark. I think he's glossing over changes he made in HIMSELF that maybe helped bring them closer.

Because when you really think about it, How could exposing an affair "make" all the problems causing it, all better?

What is "Fixed" by exposing the affair, if something other than random wanton selfishness, created it?

Making someone come home with their tail between their legs may sound appealing when you are reeling in pain, but that is your pride and anger talking more than compassion.

AND

You forgot one signficant but crucial factor here.

When you claim that "at a minimum the walkaway spouse will feel shame"....I say NO WAY....NOT SO...because

The spouse having the affair, has nearly always JUSTIFIED IT in their hearts/ minds.

to the wayward spouse, They "deserve" to have the affair b/c they are so angry/hurt/bitter/neglected, about how things have been for so long. ITs not their fault. IF it is anyone's fault it's the LBS...

(Granted, there are those rare occasions when the WAS really is having a breakdown of some sort. But in those cases, all bets are off.)

I'm operating under the assumption that both spouses are functionally sane and rational.

Generally, When a woman has an affair, it's much more likely to be emotionally appealing rather than purely sexual. That's why many men feel more threatened by it, than a woman might feel about her h's affair. I'm not saying it's right but I do understand it. The vast majority of women having an affair, won't do this if they/she thinks she's being a "whore".

She'll have an affair b/c she believes her needs are not met in the marriage.
So exposing her for it, is far more likely to anger her than shame her.

In fact, when exposure happens She might feel the exposer h is the bad guy.

After all, You'd be the one who "made her" have an affair

or "let her",

and now you want to shame her for it? I think some women would file for the sheer vindication they'd feel.

HOWEVER SM, you're such an extreme example of the Opposite, it's hard for me to assess what will work with your wife.

But I know that you ignoring it has not worked. I think your way has not worked. I mean, you wouldn't still be in the same situation if it had worked. Can we agree on that?


OTOH, did you say that you have already exposed, and it did nothing to change things, correct?

So your wife has justified her behavior. Isn't that obvious?

If her family knows of this choice and they have not done or said anything to her about it that shows their disapproval, then I assume they also see her affair as justified, correct?

To me, THAT ought to concern YOU the most,

b/c it means there's something going on in your marriage that makes other people NOT care if your w has an affair.


Since at the time of actively cheating they are already proving they are very detached from their spouse, and probably don't respect their spouse or the marriage, it is probably safe to deduce that the exposure would be the nail in the coffin more often than not.

Yes^^, but not b/c of their "shame" ---but because of their anger and justification in their minds.

For the LBS to point out their affair as if it reflects poorly on the wayward spouse, kind of misses the point the affair is meant to be making.

Allowing some time to pass increases the chance that the person would have second thoughts, and if not then the marriage was over anyway. No extra harm done to the mother oOr the father of your children, and therefore no more harm done to the children.

This is just my opinion, and I think DB principles make sense and offer a good chance of a correction in the marriage.

Exposure does work in some instances. I think it depends on the character of the spouse in question and their social circle. In my case, a lot of ny wifes family and friends know what happened and don't seem to particularly mind so had I done the exposure myself, I would have probably looked like a whining fool.

I agree that it would not help you, if they already know.

Regardless of whether they support it or see nothing wrong with it, or hate that she is doing it, YOU bringing it up won't matter will it?

Might make it worse b/c thten it's out...it's more public that she is cheating AND you know it...

and so, what are they to make of that?


Perhaps if your spouse is a prominent person in the community, or is overly religious etc. Then exposure to people of influence may bring good results.


may bring "good results"?? "Good results"? LIke what?

What's good about blackmailing your spouse? Jesus...if there is leverage, be careful what you wish for or you can end up in the same situation as the officer's wife who was out on the streets with her kids.

You overlook how a "prominent" person might react to being blackmailed. they might say "Oh? I will justify this affair by DIVORCING you now, so it's over." The "wayward" spouse has pride too. And they have justified doing something they once opposed. There is a reason for that.

Figure it out.


But generally speaking i think exposure, if it worked, would result in a reconcilluation based on shame not second thoughts.

No such thing as "reconciliation based on shame". You may think this is semantics. But I value words and their usage a lot.

Look up the word "reconciliation" and think of the terms "restored marriage" and show me ANY marriage that is restored or reconciled, based on SHAME...



And I would bet on a repeat offense down the line, only next time they will plan it better so as to look like there was an exit from the marriage FIRST then there was an OP.

Just my two cents

SM,

what's your plan? How long can you go on without a change or move on her end?

[25yearsmlc]

BY LOUELU (sp?) about not exposing...

"But the point is I can live in my own skin. at the end of the day I have done nothing to hurt him or make the sitch worse. If it ends badly there will be nothing I need to be ashamed about. I acted honourably and stayed true to my principles. I love him even though he said he does not feel anything for me. My purpose is not to make him more unhappy. That is revenge and below me.."

this^^ really resonated with me.

So Well said. You'll never EVER regret behaving with dignity and strength and honor.

Let HIM have all the regrets.

[25yearsmlc]

//do you want to be right, or do you want to hopefully be married again someday?//

Both. I want (make that demand) to be married to someone who understands what is right. If you're current spouse doesn't get this, it may be time for a change in spouses.

Does "Exposure" help them get it faster?
Does secrecy give them time for remorse so they get this on their own?
Will you're spouse ever get it?
Are you willing to endure the emotional pain, and do you have the patience to wait for them to get it?

I don't know. These are tough questions.

They are tough questions Rock. You have faced them and it wasn't easy.



In my personal case, the choices my W made were clear to everyone in our close circle of friends and family. It didn't require "Exposure", people saw what was going on. For a set of friends outside of our close circle, I wrote a FB message outing my W's affair.

You are right, the result was anger, not remorse. My W's heart hardened, she came to view our relationship as adversarial. Her pride kicked in. She viewed following through on her choices and making them work as "Winning" and giving in to family pressure and reconciling as "Losing". The road home was very bumpy.

Absolutely true. Rock, I once almost had an affair. I'm not proud of it, but it's worth mentioning I think.

At the time, I felt almost completely justified. If you had asked me why, I'd have listed the reasons. Lots of neglect b/c my h was in his internship and there was no end in sight. He was Always busy working, always gone or home but so tired he'd fall asleep at the table, and he'd be irritable too! For years....for YEARS this had gone on, and was at least 5 more years from being over.

Rather than me writing here how "right" I was to feel neglected, suffice to say that I did feel that way.

Yet enough of my standards were alarmed that I did seek out counseling and a good chaplain. But i was sorely tempted by a handsome attentive co worker...precisely when my h was his most neglecting/busy/ and most irritable.
Our oldest daughter then was afraid of him b/c she never saw him much.

Anyhow, my h never found out. I sorted things out myself. I had guilt. But I was also very hurt and to be frank, I WAS neglected, as most doctors wives are for a time. (TIP: Marry them AFTER they are done with their training!)

But here's the deal.

If my h had found out about my temptation or if I'd gone ahead and "done it", and he found out then,

and then if he tried to shame me instead of asking what HE could do to improve things...

I'd have felt outraged and indignant and probably cornered. And yes, I think I would have filed for divorce. I'd rather be the one who had the affair and left "for love" than a "sleaze ball who sticks around b/c she knows she did wrong and can't do any better".

Yes it's Strange to see those words in writing now. But I'm telling you that my pride --YES it would have kicked in. See?

I was sad and lonely enough as it was to even think of having an affair. The last thing I'd need or want from my h would be HIS condemnation for my temptation. That would have been the last straw.

Yet there I was, working this out on my own. No exposure except those whom I sought help from. I had two good friends and sisters I spoke to who listened to me, who never condemned me, but who advised me about my mores and how my self image would change if I were to have an affair.

They'd ask, Who would I be if this conduct was part of me and my past? How would I reconcile who I thought I was, with this course of action?

Turns out, It just wasn't in me.


Tactically, exposure forces the person to make a choice and dig in on that choice. You have no control over the choice a person makes. It very well may doom you're marriage. Depending on you're spouse's true heart, that may not be a bad thing.

Just for the record, I regret exposing my W's affair, and if I had to do it over again, I would keep it private. Of course, that is easy to say in hindsight when you are not dealing with the emotions of another man sleeping with you're W.


I'm surprised to read this, but relieved. I think this shows tremendous growth in you Rock. Seriously...most people never get there, or take years to.

I'm sad for you. But I'm impressed.

Instead of exposure, I should have instituted firmer boundary's. I simply should have said that the affair needs to end immediately, or I will file immediately. Yes, this is an ultimatum. But at some point, you need to have enough respect for yourself to set legitimate boundaries. For me, a marriage where you're spouse is actively having an affair is not acceptable.

[25yearsmlc]

I feel h or W has had 0 consequences.

This kind of sums it up for most LBS. We are left to deal with all the consequences while they tend to ride the beautiful wave.

Not so...it sums up how the LBS SEES it but that is not the truth.

First off, who said they are 'riding the "beautiful wave"? Two thoughts race to my mind. I know from experience of my siblings that there is NO "beautiful wave" even if they bother pretending so.

My bil left my sister after 22 years of marriage and 3 kids. My sister was a great wife and it's truly the most one sided marriage ending I ever saw. (I have other siblings who were left or who left, but my older sister really is a gem).

So her h left her with the kids and went off to his new life. Got an earring and a vanity license plate and changed his political views entirely and married OW...

HE described her as "high maintenance" within months of marrying her. HIS words...to this day, he has to work so much harder at keeping that woman NOT angry, that he is living in his own created hell. That does not make my sister happy, but the fact that her ex gets it now, that HE told her he "eff'd up" did mean a lot to her.

His misery is not what matters, but his realization that my sister was a great wife to him, DOES matter. Not many women get to hear those words so I told her to savor them.

What really truly matters is my sister was never bitter. She began dating and sure enough, she found a man who really gets her. Worships the ground she walks on and though they have some of their own issues, she is literally happier now than she even COULD have been with her ex.

I know she'll always feel bad for their kids, but she's happier in her marriage than she would have been with her ex. He just wasn't the guy who could ever really "get her" like her new h does. (Her "new h" has been married to her now for 11 years. Still going strong).

Her ex is still struggling, though he has money. He's not happy. Whereas my older sister is not wealthy but she is happier than she would have been, with her ex. Her ex was selfish and easily irritated. Regardless of any affair he had or did not have, nothing would fix him being selfish and deceitful or irritable. He's still all those things. When he left her, he did her a favor. Took her a few years to realize that but she does.

So the idea tht the WAS has a new great life is inaccurate. AND if it IS accurate, then so be it. Maybe they should go off with OP, if life is so much better out there...I just don't buy that. I think if life really is a lot better with someone else, and they are truly happier over time, with someone else, I'd want to know now- not later. But I just don't buy that and more important, THEIR misery or happiness IS NOT an index for OURS.

My sister is not happy BECAUSE her ex is miserable. She's happy because her new r is good and she likes herself.

Plus, the WAS always always has to look over their shoulder & second guess themselves. Why?

b/c every time the new OP isn't as they hoped, or every time an old song comes on that the OP does not know,
a memory not shared but recalled nonetheless, the WAS will wonder if they made the right choice,

or if they had only given the m another chance

Or NOT chosen this OP to cheat with...they will wonder.

They will second guess their choice every time there is a shared holiday, or a holiday they do NOT have the kids,

and every time the OP's has kids who resent him/her for taking their other parent away, there will be second thoughts.

When they get sick and the OP does not know the favorite soup they love when they're sick, they will wonder about their earlier spouse. That's a small thing but I'm telling you that it adds up.

The favorite music, favorite restaurant, favorite place to vacation, the old friends they have known all your married lives....they lose so much they don't even know they have lost til they run into it...and each time they run into it, they again have second thoughts.

But the LBS who behaves with dignity and honor in the face of betrayal, who grows and changes and learns to be truly content with who they are --they have NO second thoughts. We never had a choice but to behave well from a place of light in our hearts, or a place of darkness in us, acting out of anger.

If you choose to behave with honor and dignity you will never be haunted by doubts about your choices. The WAS always will be.

Every time a good thing happens and they know deep down that YOU would have "gotten it" and you would have known what a big deal it was, but they have to explain it to their new 'love'...they will wonder

Everytime something great happens or they get a break, they can wonder how things would have been in their earlier marriage if only that break had come sooner...

WE cannot give them consequences of their choices, although we can try to punish them. Aside from how we have to live with ourselves...

My DB coach said it best when she told me

'It's not the job of a spouse to 'teach a lesson' to her h, nor is it to show him the consequences of his actions...LIFE does that for them."

SO TRUE.

In Rocks' situation he knows the pain his wife has caused the kids but SHE does not yet know. She will know b/c in time they will tell her.

My h has so much to repair in his r with our children and we are still facing financial damage from choices he made. My d/24 said tonight that she is still "mad at h for leaving so often". It has been over 6 years...

I could make things worse by "speaking my truth" but I'm interested in solutions.

That's what I love about Divorce Busting. It's SOLUTION BASED and not about making our scorecards even. It's about "going from this day forward".

IN fact, losing the scorecard is the first step in truly creating a happier life.

It's in my interests, my children's interests and our marriages' interest to EASE the burdens my h faces, not increase them.

We won't find solutions by measuring our happiness with what we perceive our former spouses' misery or happiness.

Staring at them and bemoaning the unfairness of it all, only makes US sadder and angrier and more bitter. Helps nothing. Detach from what you think they are doing. It's usually not accurate anyhow, and it Worsens our own lives and it's partly self inflicted.

I'd NEVER in a million years dream that my h was or is better off without me or our kids.

HIS loss would be immeasurable (though simpler) and my life would be only missing him. Not to gloss over the financial hassles and the painful upheaval that is temporarily caused by a divorce. It left me reeling just facing it.

But I got better. So did my life.

See,

I'd still know who I am, I'd still have kids who love and respect me and even if I craved more private 'me' time, I'd never trade it for being alone too much.

I'd also know I kept my vows and did my best to be a good partner and parent.

I would argue that its ME going off riding the beautiful wave...

[RockJC]

Thank you.

[KenF]

i regret not exposing my x.

but ultimately, the reality is No One Cares.

No one really cares what she did and how much it may have hurt me. (my family does but its secondary)

her family and friends all knew, they always knew, but like the WAS, they justified and believe what they have to believe to live with her and themselves.


What i am most thankful for is that i did not reconcile. after a few grueling months of trying to come to grips with it, and the horrible worrying about making a wrong step or wrong word, and eggshells, etc etc - limbo is hell. (and so many of you tried your best to help me, and i do appreciate it) the best thing i did for myself was accept it, and make the decision that i was done being disrespected and that i did not want her back.


what i found about myself is when i had wanted her back, it not because she was the greatest woman in the world and i loved her deeply, although thats what i believed at the time, but in reality i wanted her back because i couldnt have her.

it is one of the most illogical cravings - why would i want someone who clearly cared nothing about me? i look at her today and cant believe i ever wanted her back.

I know that if we had reconciled, i would have never have forgotten nor forgiven what she did. it would have always been on my mind. (and thats who i am, right or wrong) i would have spent my life trying to stiffle my feelings and push them down.

and i think people in this situation should back away from the idea that they MUST win their spouse back, and first carefully consider if they could really forgive that person if they did come back.

and if not, then just come to grips with it and walk away. to me, thats an acceptable path to choose.